1st Attempt Need Help, Be Gentle, All infantry all comers

OK like it says this is my first attempt at an army list for IG in 10 years and 2 editions. All feedback is welcome and appreciated.

I want to do an all infantry list for now though I may add armor later.

Specifically I am wondering.....

1. Do I have enough HW teams?
2. Will my storm trooper make up for my lack of mobility
3. I have avoided most upgrades to save points for more troops, too lean?
4. I think I am around 1350 points, what to add for 1500/1750
5. Is the vox worth it? seems like it reading rules but I have no clue

HQ
Company Command, Bolt Pistol, Power weapon, Vox, Missile Launcher, Sniper Rifle

Troops 1 (Offensive Platoon)
Platoon Command, Commissar, bolt pistol, Power weapon, Powerfist, Vox, Flamer, 2x Melta
1st Infantry Squad with Flamer
2nd Infantry Squad with Flamer
3rd Infantry Squad with Flamer
1st Special Weapons Squad, Flamer, Plasma, Melta
2nd Special Weapons Squad, Flamer, Plasma, Melta
Conscripts x20
Troops 2 (Static Defensive)
Platoon Command, Vox, Boltgun, Missile Launcher, Sniper rifle
1st Infantry Squad with grenade launcher
2nd Infantry Squad with grenade launcher
1st Special Weapons Squad, 3x Sniper Rifles
1st Heavy Weapons Squad, 3x Lascannon
2nd Heavy Weapons Squad, 3x Autocannons
3rd Heavy Weapons Squad, 3x Autocannons
4th Heavy Weapons Squad, 3x Autocannons
Elites 1
Storm Troopers x10, Power Weapon, Flamer, Meltagun
Elites 2
Storm Troopers x10, Power Weapon, Flamer, Meltagun

With a little experience You'll be able to offset lack of deepstrike/outflanking with number of squads and running some of them, plus all-infantry list is all about bodies, so instead of 2 stormtrooper squads it's better to field 6 infantry squads.

You have quite a few HW squads but play few games proxying them and few more swapping them for even more infantry squads - see what works better for You, especially that on tables with more terrain or with covered deployment zones heavies get bogged with short lines of fire and neccesity to move.

Commisar is a neccesary choice only when combining squads together or for fluff reasons. Otherwise for 10-strong squads Ld 8 is enough to keep them in line for orders and shooting phase, and also enough for a charged squad to break and run, thus denying the opponent a guardsmen shield during Your shooting phase.
For that reason vox isn't worth bothering with, unless You want one for fluff purposes.

Consider swapping specialist squads for infantry squads - they're rather fragile and quickly fall below 50% and lose contesting/scoring status.

Also, flamers+grenade launchers is a good choice for Zone Mortalis, old Cityfight and against light horde armies. Against all-comers it's better to equip infantry with mix of plasma- and meltaguns, imo 2 plasmas to 1 melta should work just fine.
This way You'll have a reliable punch against medium and heavy infantry while giving all squads good antivehicle firepower. You'll usually want those squads mobile anyway, so they will be getting close to vehicles.

Lastly, as soon as KPs enter the game an infantry list throws mission objectives out of the window and concentrates on annihillation victory.

This is a good start to a list. My only advice would be to kit out the heavy weapons teams with Missile Launchers. They are a very versatile weapon, being able to switch from frag to krak they can take on hordes and MEQs pretty well. Of course, this could just be personal preference.

Also, the lack of heavies in the squads speaks of a more CC oriented role for your infantry platoons. You may want to consider giving them a bit more help, as you can add Power Weapons to all your squads, and upgun to plasma/melta (remembering that "all comers" tend to be predominantly MEQ). Conversely, it is sometimes good to "hide" your Hvy Wpns inside Infantry Squads, making them harder to target.

just my 2¢ worth

-Weasel

1. Do I have enough HW teams? More than enough. I actually like your mix.

2. Will my storm trooper make up for my lack of mobility Yes and no. You can deep strike them when you deploy, or you can infiltrate. Stormtroopers aren't bad, but they are really just guard in heavy armor, and better guns. Treat them like that.

3. I have avoided most upgrades to save points for more troops, too lean? See below for my response. I feel you actually have gone a bit overboard.

4. I think I am around 1350 points, what to add for 1500/1750 Adding up this list, as it stands you are at 1406. To get to 1500, I'd drop one of your AC Heavy Weapons squads and invest in a Leman Russ Battle tank, for some long range fire power. If you can, try out the Vendetta, and the Psyker Battle Squads.

5. Is the vox worth it? seems like it reading rules but I have no clue - I don't find Vox Casters useful, but that's a personal choice. It is certainly a fun fluffy option, and even can be useful, but not often enough for my taste.


Here are a couple of things that I have noticed about your list:

- Commissars are unit specific. meaning they only affect the unit they are attached too. So your Commissar with the Platoon Command will only affect the Platoon Command, not the platoon. You will need to attach the Commissar to an Infantry Squad, and then combine that squad with other squads, for the Stubborn rule to affect more than one squad.

- Generally speaking, one should not mix different weapons in a squad. Specifically, your Special Weapons Squads are like this; you have Flamer, Plasma, Melta. You should take all melta, or all plasma, or all flamers, etc. It maximizes what you want to do: all flamers for killing light infantry with its template, all plasma to kill MEQ or Heavy Infantry, or all melta to kill Armor/MEQ.

- Remember to avoid the trap of getting every bell and whistle for a squad, try to k.i.s.s. your list: Keep It Simple Sir! Pimping a squad may make it more killy, but it quickly becomes expensive and and a point sink. And if that unit is destroyed? A significant portion of your army may be gone as well. By keeping your units simple and to the point, you now have more points to spend on other options!

I can pretty much agree with anything already said.

Just a few things I'd like to point out from personal experience:

I found GLs to be great in Platoon (Command) Squads. Better actually than anything else in the special weapons section.
Personally, I'd leave plasma/melta for Vet Squads and the like as BS3 won't hit anything. (I one had a melta SWS follow a Vindicator around for 3 turns )

Sniper Rifles just suck; unless you use them for "rule-of-cool" I'd advise to swap them for GLs...but then I use a Sniper CCS...out of pure stubborness.
Also, I you really want to use Snipers...the cost of your SniperSWS equals the cost of 5Ratlings> 2 more Sniper Rifles + they are just better in any way.

I love Storm Troopers but the point costs are a joke. Also, don't use 10 men squads. Try getting 3 squads of 5. And double the special weapons, don't do 1/1. I use either 2xmelta or 2xplasma (it makes them more proficient at their job). Flamers are no good with them, you waste their BS and you have to get them into range first. Emperor knows that you can get flamers in other places for less drawbacks.

As for SWS: just like STs, don't mix and match (other than adding a Demo Charge if you feel like it).

Vox: IIRC, you have to give a vox to at least 1 of the platoon squads if you blob them. Giving them just to the PCS/CCS won't do squat.

Power Fists: unless you're running into 'fexes on a regular basis, don't. If you want glowy thingy just buy a normal power weapon.

Hope my ramblings were helpfull,
Juggernaut

Thanks for all the advice guys. Going to mull it over and do some tweaking and repost in a the next few days.

The sniper rifles I have, I just realised, are still there because by mistake when I launched into this venture I pulled out and began studying the 4th edition book. I must have spent a week before I noticed I was reading the wrong book and sniper rifles seemed better in 4th than they do now.

I don't know much about what kinds of enemies I am likely to see in my local store most often, though I do know that I see a disproportionate number of CSM and grey knights when I am watching others play.

More news as it happens...

Ah, then be sure to take lots of AP 3 weapons or better

- Leman Russ Tanks
- Plasma
- Melta
- Most Artillery
- Las Cannons

Power Armor are also susceptible to torrent of fire, so weapons that put out a lot of shots and make these kinds of armies make lots of rolls, even with higher AP weaponry, such as heavy bolters or auto cannons, will take power armor down.

In other words, with enough shots, there will be enough 1's or 2's to take them down.

Give me enough flashlights, and I can blind terminators to death!

This post has been edited by Pax Urbis Pax Imperi on Apr 19 2012, 05:12 PM

Vox are needed in both the squad that gives the order and the squad that recieves it. So it's good if you're using combined squads or veterans. Otherwise it aint really worth that much.

I second the "commissars in combined squads only"

If you don't want armour, you can try out the psyker battle squad. Thing is impressive.it's like a massive tank gun made of paper. (Although weither or not the overseer count as a psyker... i forgot if it was mentioned in the FAQ)

As people said, don't mix-match your special weapons. (except for like, adding a flamer if you want, which are just good all around or DemoCharges in SWS. I'm a big fan of democharges). In general, full melta, or full plasma, or full grenades is a better choice since you can only target one ennemy. Redundance is key in 40k.

As for snipers, I'm not sure I agree. I like the AP change on the snipers in the last edition. It bypasses feel no pain and other such shenanigans. Makes the sniper squads better imho (ratlings, pathfinders, etc.). But yes, single snipers in a squad is useless.

As far as I'm concerned, don't bother with the power weapons on the stormtroopers. all it does is give you a few hotshot lasgun strikes in melee with lower accuracy. For 10 points it's kind of a waste. A classic ST squad is 5 men with 2 melta and deepstriking them behind vehicules. Their BS4 means they'll probably kill it. Problem is they got really pricy for suicide... but they got more accurate on the drop. But really, at the amount of antitank big guns an all-infantry Guard can field, just one squad is more than enough to kill THAT ONE artillery tank behind a wall or that bloodied space marine HQ squad.

MARBO
An s8 ap1 precision pieplate* that pops anywhere you want on the battlefield and a melee threat that has to be taken care of, tying AT LEAST one unit the next shooting phase. If you can pop it in cover than all the better. It's a discount assassin. If you got a spare elite slot, I highly suggest him.

*AND it allow you to ignore directional cover. It's great like that.

I'm sure there's more, but I think that's all is coming to mind right now.

Or just one lucky flashlight. I'm sure everyone has their story of an heroic guardsman who punched a Warboss' skull in, securing victory.

This post has been edited by SebbyTheFreak on Apr 23 2012, 03:35 PM

@ Sebby: The DC has AP:2!

@ Silverback: I've been going over the DOs and DON'Ts of IG in the last few days.
Best advice I can give you : USE WHATEVER YOU THINK OF AS "COOL"!


Rules and points change and you will eventually get the short straw. Just because X is the rage in 5th doesn't mean that the next dex will keep things the same. Sure the 5th ed. dex will stay for quite some time but you have to think about the actual army building and painting aspect, too.
Unless you're a tourny gamer in which case your interest in such things will be somewhat low.
For now I'm presuming you don't want to tear off weapon X and replace it with weapon Y come next ed./dex.

Personally, I find painting rows after rows after rows of IG pretty tedious. Having diverse sp. weap. options helps to keep me going. If I had to paint nothing but plas/melta ALL the bloody time...I'd probably go insane.


BTW, you're a tad low in the heavy AT department. You'll need more stuff to kill LR/Monoliths at range. But that kinda depends on the tanks you'll add later on.


If you'd give us some pointers about the direction you wanna take your IG we might be more helpfull. Fluff & weapon preferences.

Or just make a few different army lists; you might stumble over one you like by accident.

Juggernaut

It's ordnance, so same difference.

Yeah, but AP:1 would turn it into a reliable tank killer. This always buggs me. Isn't that thing designed to kill tanks? IMHO, a 20pt one-use-only gadget with a wopping range of 6" should be AP:1 . But it isn't.

Just one of my pet peeves, mind.