The Cadian 228th / 1971st Catachan Rifles, Second Evolution

My newest IG list... basically I added another Vendetta, dropped the Russ tanks and Hell Hound, and added some artillery.

1850 Pts - Imperial Guard Roster
HQ: Company Command Squad (6#, 135 pts)
4 Company Command Squad, 135 pts (Plasma gun x2)
1 Company Commander
1 Chimera

Troops: Veteran Squad (10#, 100 pts)
9 Veteran Squad, 100 pts (Meltagun x3)
1 Veteran Sergeant

Troops: Veteran Squad (10#, 100 pts)
9 Veteran Squad, 100 pts (Shotgun x6; Meltagun x3)
1 Veteran Sergeant

Troops: Infantry Platoon (47#, 530 pts)

4 Platoon Command Squad (Flamer x4)
1 Platoon Commander (Power Weapon)
1 Chimera (Heavy Flamer)

7 Infantry Squad (Krak Grenades; Plasma gun x1)
1 Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon; Krak Grenades)
1 Sergeant (Krak Grenades; Power Weapon)

7 Infantry Squad (Krak Grenades; Plasma gun x1)
1 Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon; Krak Grenades)
1 Commissar (Krak Grenades; Power Weapon)

1 Sergeant (Krak Grenades; Power Weapon)
7 Infantry Squad (Krak Grenades; Plasma gun x1)
1 Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon; Krak Grenades)
1 Sergeant (Krak Grenades; Power Weapon)

7 Infantry Squad (Plasma gun x1)
1 Heavy Weapons Team (Autocannon)
1 Sergeant (Power Weapon)

Heavy Support: Hydra Flak Tank Battery (2#, 150 pts)
1 Hydra Flak Tank
1 Hydra Flak Tank

Elite: Psyker Battle Squad (8#, 135 pts)
6 Psyker Battle Squad,
1 Overseer
1 Chimera

Fast Attack: Vendetta Gunship (1#, 130 pts)

Fast Attack: Vendetta Gunship (2#, 130 pts)


1 Manticore Rocket Launcher, 160 pts (Heavy Flamer)

Heavy Support: Ordnance Battery (2#, 280 pts)
1 Colossus
1 Colossus

I think if I make any changes, it would be to drop the Krak Grenades in the infantry and add the points to the PSB, making it a full squad of awesome.

I'm loving this list Pax, it's something akin to where I see my collection heading as my groups games expand upwards.

You've got no dead weight in there as far as my (admittedly less experienced) eye can tell. I see you're someone who doesn't mind the plasma guns being on the BS3 guys. Although it goes against conventional internet wisdom, it's something I had considered doing just to squeeze more of the lovely special weapons in my list. Grenade launchers are ok but I just just plasma and melta!

I like the fact you've got the krak grenades in there too so your blob squad has a chance of not being ground to paste by walkers.

Out of interest, what models do you use for the Colossus?

Thanks! I'm proxying 2 Griffons as Collossus at the moment. But, there are several places to get SOMETHING for a Collossus

- Forgeworld Bombard But this is an exspensive kit!
- Maxmini Siege Gun both in this set, or the gun by itself. This will most likely be my medusa when I begin to build this model.
- Armorcast Howitzer This is probably the route I am going to take, as its SUPER CHEAP.
- 35th Scale Karl Moser This is not bad...
- There is a rumor of a Collossus/Medusa/Griffon GW kit coming in a month or two. But I am not going to hold my breath. I could convert from the Basilisk, and reduce the barrell, but I am not sure.

I used this list last night against a orc x3 battle wagon list, with a Big Mek and Cheese (forcefield), x3 Killa Kans, some lootas, boyz, x2 units of 5 lootas, and of course, Gazghul. Close game, lost 7-8 kill points, but more importantly, he did not get to defrolla me. I was able to blow them up right before my lines. If I was able to roll a better turn two, I would have beaten this list. I'm loving two Vendettas!

Some changes to consider, swapping out the krak grenades for melta bombs, or dropping one infantry squad to add las cannons to the blob, as the Auto Cannons slots are covered fairly well by the Hydras and I am finding my anti-tank is not as complete as I would like.

I love that Bombard, it's the closest thing to the picture in the Codex I've yet seen but the fact that it's a Russ chassis and not a Chimera really limits it for me. I suppose that's where one's converting skills come into play though but I'm not much good at that and the prospect of carving up such an expensive model
The Maxmini gun makes an ace Medusa but the combines cost of a Chimera to mount it on and their kit makes it almost as worth just getting a FW Medusa IMO.
The others are not '40k' enough for me.

The battle sounded good against the Ork menace. It sounds like Vendettas were the way to go there since he was quite vehicle heavy.

I'd have thought loads of krak grenade attacks more useful than a few melta bomb attacks?

Are your chimeras there as bunkers for your command squads perhaps? Personally I feel they're worthless as transports; never understood the use for that.

Also, is there a special reason for the krak grenades? IMO, they're not that great...

Do you feel the power weapons work? I'm old school, so I wouldn't even think of putting power weapons on my sarges, but who knows. I've downed several assaulting terminators simply because my powerweapons strike faster than their powerfists, However, so not useles, but they're thinly spread like that.

I'm counting 60 points for power weapons, even more with the krak grenades. That could really be used for another chimera, a sentinel or two, a few rough riders to spice up any critical close combat, a mortar support squad, etc.

Also, is there a special reason for the shotguns (in other words, do they work different now than in 4th ed?), otherwise I wouldn't take them either.

Flamer on the manticore is interesting, I guess since you usually hide it behind terrain it might be a smart choice.

It's all about tastes and me being outdated.

This post has been edited by gunship on Mar 16 2012, 08:38 PM

Are your chimeras there as bunkers for your command squads perhaps? Personally I feel they're worthless as transports; never understood the use for that.

That, and for extra firepower. One has a heavy bolter, the other (for the platoon command) has a heavy flamer.

Also, is there a special reason for the krak grenades? IMO, they're not that great...

I had some extra points leftover, so I thought I would provide some protection for my foot troops. Usually, I don't take them for the rank and file guys. I can take or leave them out.

Do you feel the power weapons work? I'm old school, so I wouldn't even think of putting power weapons on my sarges, but who knows. I've downed several assaulting terminators simply because my power weapons strike faster than their power fists, However, so not useless, but they're thinly spread like that.

The power weapons are not thinly spread out if I put them in a blob together, which they usually are. Single power weapons are not that great, but together they are pretty good. I love power weapons, but I suppose they don't hit or wound any better than a regular close combat weapon. I will have to examine this...

I'm counting 60 points for power weapons, even more with the krak grenades. That could really be used for another chimera, a sentinel or two, a few rough riders to spice up any critical close combat, a mortar support squad, etc.

That is 75 points, actually. If I had another Hydra, I'd take that in a second. 12 twin-linked Autocannon shots? Yes please!

Also, is there a special reason for the shotguns (in other words, do they work different now than in 4th ed?), otherwise I wouldn't take them either.

Vet squads in Vendettas are known for being dropped off in front of an enemies' vehicle or unit on an objective, so I thought about providing extra 'punch' before assaulting, since they are Assault 2. Free to swap, so if I don't like them, I can change back.

Flamer on the manticore is interesting, I guess since you usually hide it behind terrain it might be a smart choice.

Correct!

All good questions, but in regards to shotguns they're still pointless for guard unless your playing against tau. That being said they are S4 in the most recent marine dex. In their case I actually understand them, but in a military context unless they're door breachers it just never fallowed logic to give a rifle squad shotguns.

Good points on the other questions. Well, this one too, but...

If your vets are charging infantry... you must be either charging fire-warriors or just to deny that nasty unit the charge and hope your vets last into your opponents turn, but not longer. Shotguns are useless versus vehichles, and veterans are almost as useless versus anything remotely close combat oriented

But then this might as well be moot, since dropped vets don't have a really long life-expectency anyways.

Shotguns have a pretty big cool-factor anyhow, at least to anyone who don't know the rules.

I would probably smack on some extra armour if you need something to soak up the points. Stunned vehichles are sitting ducks, and it's always nice to get an opportuity to move flat out. Oh, that's right, them russeses are a little slower mostly nowdays, but still, at least move away from that thing that just would have stunned your vehichle. Then again, you don't have any russes.



This post has been edited by gunship on Mar 17 2012, 12:37 AM

I did have Leman Russ tanks, but in this list. They did alright, but I really really like artillery, and I feel that it is underutilized in most IG armies. I mean, when is the last time someone took 3 Basilisks? Its too bad really.

I guess I am more of trying out the shotguns, really, to see if they work out. I was planning on giving the Sargent a power fist, but it seems to come down to points, really.

Extra armor is great, but its 15 points a model! That is way overpriced IMHO.

It's probably that 36" minimum range for indirect fire that cripples the Basilisk's usefulness for most people though isn't it?

I'm sticking to my logic that veterans armed with assault special weapons (meltas) are better off having the rest of the squad with shotties. I'd rather charge than be charged even if I'm likely to lose. When in doubt, do whatever sounds coolest!

Basilisks can direct fire when they get within that range though.

For sure but the thing which precludes most from doing just that is the fact they're presenting an AV12 open-topped tank with a massive scary cannon in plain sight of all the enemy's AT firepower. They disappear quite quickly then (but I suppose that would mean your Chimeras aren't getting shot )

I'm liking the list Pax. I've been keeping an eye on the evolution of your 1750 point lists over time and it is interesting to see their development. If you ever get the time I'd love to see some pic heavy battle reports

I haven't logging on for a while (uni+work experience=no hobby time ), but I wanted to weigh in one some of the issues here:

Keep us posted on how you find the Colossus(es), particularly as a squadron. I haven't used them before, and I'm starting a new army at the end of this semester, so I'll be interested to see how they fare.

I recommend finding the points for power fists for the meltavets (krak grenades and a power weapon if required), I've explained below:

First and foremost shotguns are the best thing going round for airborne vets with assault weapons. The ability to charge into combat after shooting can make a big difference. Not to be used against dedicated combat units (even two space wolves are enough for this now to work - I've learnt this the hard way), and it won't work every time, but it is definately a viable method of cleaning up those pesky remnants of units. It works best when you can add in a power weapon or fist though. I've been using a veteran squad with 3x flamers and a power fist (and demolitions when I can afford it). The sheer volume of wounds from the flamers and shotguns normally means there are only a few enemy left, and the power fist normally carries the day. I figure the squad is going to get shot/charged/eaten (by something) next turn anyway, so why not make use of another chance to cause damage.

In my opinion Basilisks are best used as a field gun. The trick is to see the value of the base tank first and to view the indirect fire as a handy extra. It can be a game winner, but most enemies close quickly so it is often useful (and you can waste many shots by attempting to fire at enemies that are 32-40 inches away). I've used my lone basilisk (Blitzen 88) quite a bit and often people are more concerned with the closer and more agressive Russ/AP2 Medusa/Vendetta/etc nearby. They are fragile if directly targetted, but if obscured and placed carefully no more so than any other artillery. Also if they get blown to hell they aren't all that expensive. They are a cheap and effective way of getting AP3 pie plates into your list. Also don't underestimate them against vehicles, at str9 ordnance they are surprisingly efficient.

I use only flamers on my artillery. Since they are ordnance they can't simultaneously fire a heavy bolter, and in the event you get weapon-destroyed it can pretent it is a Hellhound and make a right nuisance of itself. This is much more fun than sitting and shooting a heavy bolter, and has the potential to be very damaging. I will conceed the fun falls away very quickly when you are immobilised as well

Not sure that helped anything, but I feel better having had my say

Keep us posted Pax.

Edit:
For the Colossus(es) I would recommend buying the Armourcast Howitzers to see what they are like. If they are good, then great, but if not, then they are so rediculously cheap that if you don't like them you won't feel obliged just to use them because you bought them. I'm personally not a fan of converted basilisks - the barrel can be swapped out to make a decent Medusa, but the colossus should really have a larger calibre gun. I would personally like to see some of the FW Bombards in your army colours, as they are beautiful models. That said this is all down to finance, and I know the horrors of FW first hand - I have many hundreds of dollars or Death Korp engineers sitting in my cupboard waiting for the semester to end

This post has been edited by Major Speirs on Apr 15 2012, 10:54 AM

Love the list!
Lots of good dakka.

I'd drop the 'nades and take more dudes for the PBS. Just in case the overseer executes a few of them. Besides, S:9 is a good backup against enemy tanks and the like. ID has to enter the equation, too.

As far as the Armorcast Howitzer is concerned, I've got picts of one in my PLOG. Wanted to use it the same you do but it just didn't make the cut. It is a tad small and well, basic.

Juggernaut

The Collossus are amazing, I am finding. Minus the 24" minimum range bubble, you can hit pretty much anything on the board. It is indirect fire, so you have to scatter, but I hit more times than not.

I agree with your assesment on the PBS, Juggs. I'll see if I can fit more of them in my list.

I tend to use my vets with melta for vehicle killing power, but I do have one vet unit with flamers available. I'll try out that flame + shotgun power.

I am trying to get that gun from Armorcast, Juggs. But they seem to be out of stock at the moment.