Dealing With Necron Wraiths

I have been struggling with the wraiths with whipcoils. Specifically two squads of six, they don't seem like too big of a deal but I find myself struggling against them in games against necrons. In one game, two six-man units of wraiths took care of half of my army BY THEMSELVES. There 3+ invul is super nasty.

If anyone has had success in any way with any other approaches please let us know. I was thinking this is one case where torrent of fire, specifically heavy bolters, would be the way to go.

Another tactic would be to sit back at the edge of the board and let them come to you.

Anyone else find success here?

Sorry pax, I can't help here even if 2 of my regular opponents play necrons. I guess I'm just lucky enough that neither of them put them in their lists.

I would think template weapons or Las Cannons would be pretty good.

If all else fails put in a Russ Punisher with hvy bolters. Eventually, when rolling that many dice he should fail a few.

I was seriously giving that some consideration, for that exact reason. It also has Armor 11 on the back, which means it won't be glances to death, but will be rended to death.

Template weapons will work, especially a Leman Russ shot, except for on thing: a canny opponent will deploy in a line, two inches apart, thus negating the effectiveness of a large blast template weapon.

First Rank Fire! Second Rank Fire! may also be effective, but only if the wraith is 19"+ as they have an effective 18" charge range (12" jump + 6" charge)

One wonders if 6th will provide salvation soon for this.

This may sound a bit off of topic at first but it's not.

From many years of playing against Orks and now my wife's Dark Eldar I've found that the best ways to deal with close combat bad a$$ units is to simply give them some thing small to chew on that is close to your main troops. I usually tend to deploy in layers with small expendable units on the out side of my more important units.

As an example I'll use a platoon with 3 infantry squads, 2 of the squads are combined and given weapon upgrades while the 3rd squads may get a special weapon if I have points left over, the 3rd squad is placed in a way as to protect the combined squad from assault (spaced 1" apart) from a direction where I believe an assault would come from. This squad would most likely die when they get assaulted leaving the unit that won well with in rapid fire range and an order of FRSRF.

On a side note I feel your pain. My wife has been very effectively running a squad or two of Beast Masters with 10 to 20 Khymerae. They have a 4+ inv, Power From Pain, and have at least a 19" assault range with fleet and all.

Lein

Torrenting solves almost all the IG's problems so why not this one, too? I've got no idea what those things cost but 2x6 can't be that cheap meaning there isn't much that ALSO needs "bullettodafacerightnow". Target priority is your friend (Do Necrons still fade after 25% casualties?)

Furthermore:
Put a cheap platoon squad (GL?) in their way and a SWS (DC, 2xflamer) behind the squad. Let's see how they like them apples

Friggin Necons...

Juggernaut

To be honest, I would apply the standard IG solution to any problem.....

Utterly, totally, devastatingly overwhelming firepower.

IG dont have an effective counter to cc other than eradicating the opponent before cc happens.

If you cant do this, then the option Leinad has is probably your only realistic choice....something big enough to tie up his nasty choppy units long enough for you to either reposition your army so you shoot him to sheet when the combat is over, or to outlast the game time remaining.

Again, if a unit takes too much effort in terms of available firepower to kill, then quite simply, dont try to....while he is rushing forward with his wraiths, you want to turn every ounce of firepower onto the rest of his army.

Try pummeling his lord (or other similar prized unit) with russ pies...give him something so threatening that he will go daft trying to kill it rather than what he should be.

Sorry to not be of more assistance, but thats about all I can come up with.

Try using a Leman Russ punisher against necrons.

I faced against one with the only game I played with my 'crone since the new codex came out, and it wouldn't stop eating my little robots.

How would a Vanquisher be more effective then a standard russ? The vanquisher kills vehicles faster, that is a given . I would advocate an Exterminator or Executioner more dice / templates over a vanquisher.

Who said anything about Vanqs???


It should be obvious that the Executioner and Exterminator are our reliable torrent tanks! A punisher might be better at CQB but I'd rather hit the enemy in his own deployment zone than wait for him to come within 24" just to use that overpriced gatling...

Speaking of torrenting into the deployment zone:
How many Hydras do you have, Pax?

3x Hydra, 2x Execs/Exterms and a Chim wall in front of the Hydras makes for a very defensible position but then you'd need some dedicated AT units like Vendettas or you'll be in trouble if he brings serious armor. Kinda depends on the point level and how much infantry you'd like to bring, too.

Juggernaut

I was also wondering about the Vanquisher comment..... (lovely tank, but highly specialzed). Maybe good for the Annihilation Barges, but I digress.

I currently have two Hydras, working on a third. My demolisher can be easily converted into a Punisher with a quick barrel swap (horray for magnets!), and I also have a Executioner with Heavy Bolter Sponsons, with a Hull Heavy Bolter, so I have quite a few options of torrent of fire with Heavy support.

Juggs, I don't think the flamer option would work. The reason is: 1) Wraithes have two wounds, 2) they have a 3+ invulnerable save, and 3) a canny general will spead them out. It might work after they eat a sacrafical lamb, but I thnk that 3+ will save them.

There is also the problem that a Wraithwing build will have 12 - 18 wraiths at 1850 point level. They are jump infantry that ignores terrain, so they have a potential chage range of 18". You really need to know your distances when facing a Wraith.

I like the idea of Russ Pie plates, but again, a canny general won't keep they together, and so you are picking off one to two IF you are lucky with a failed save.

My bad, misread previous comment the punisher makes sense. Dis-reguard insolence

This post has been edited by cadiantrooper on May 11 2012, 01:27 AM

I had a quick look over the Wraith entry (will read the 'dex tonight) and I don't really see a problem that we didn't have with any other CC-orientated foe before them.

It's still down to two things:
- whether you go 1st/2nd (resulting in one vs. two shooting phases w/o CC)
- and how long you can keep up firing


So what to do? Well, exactly the same thing you do against the other guys who think that CC is the way to go...

Like preventing multi-charges (who cares if they kill ONE unit per turn?), bubble wrap (obvious one), concentrate fire (ok, you're screwed in a cityfight ) and keep them away from tanks for as long as possible (S:6 / rending will just ruin your tank crew's day).

And let's face facts, you don't have to annihilate the whole unit; you just have to take it down to 2-3 guys. They will still rock hard but a few "chaff" units should manage to eventually grind them down with CC and FRFSRF. That's why I proposed the platoon squad / SWS combo (or even better platoon/SWS/platoon if you can manage that). One unit won't do squat but a few of them can handle a shot up unit.

It isn't about one of ours outright killing one of theirs, it's about preventing them to use their strenghts. Simplest way to do that is hitting them with ID attacks (like DCs, tank/artillery and the PBS thingy) and low- strenght torrenting ( lasguns and flamers come to mind). They will eventually go down. A 3++ can only do so much and Hammer Termies aren't invincible, either.

The biggest problem I see is placement; pull that off and you have a ton of problems you can disregard. Their super Wraithflight is utterly useless when the models can't be placed behind your lines. You can play the 2" apart game, too!


Of course, all this can be easily said in a vacuum. If the rest of the Necrons have a way of getting close to your lines fast enough If he just uses them as destraction unit(s) to take the pressure off his army (and at 35pts per I'd do that), well, it'll be...BAD

As I said, I'll read the dex tonight and might be able to pull s.th. out of my a$$ if you can provide a copy of the list he used last time.

Juggernaut

This is fairly typical of a Wraithwing meta in my area.

1850 list

Necron Overlord, Warscythe, Mindshackles, CCB - 195pts.

Necron Overlord, Warscythe, Mindshackles, CCB - 195pts.

3 Lanceteks, 1 w/solar pulse, 1 veiltek - 185pts.

3 Lanceteks, 1 w/solar pulse, 1 veiltek - 185pts.

Troops: 260pts.
Necron Warriors x5 -
Necron Warriors x5 -
Necron Warriors x5 -
Necron Warriors x5 -

Fast Attack: 590pts.
Wraiths x5, 2 whip, 1 pistol
Wraiths x5, 2 whip, 1 pistol
Wraiths x5, 1 whip, 1 pistol

Heavy Support: 270pts.
Anni Barge -
Anni Barge -
Anni Barge -

Fairly tough... the Wraiths charge forward, the Annailation Barges are a tough kill. With two Solar Pulses, we are having at least two turns of nightfight before the Wraiths are on you.

This post has been edited by Pax Urbis Pax Imperi on May 14 2012, 05:07 PM

Super...

Good all-comers list...hmmm...

I presume that the Lance guys form 3-men units while the others join the Warrior squads?
Also: the Barges run all tesla weapons?

So the Veilteks, Lords and Wraiths force you to buch up which plays directly to the Barges' strenghts (presuming tesla weapons) just to guard the tanks which you'll desperately need. Damn, a lot of high priority targets ... the Barges/CCBs need to drop ASAP, IMO! Even before the Wraiths.

Just brain storming here:
Guess the torrenting is better left (mostly) to the infantry. I looked over your blog and armies on parade entries so I'd advocate s.th. along these lines (based on the vehicles I've seen):

Manticore (HF)
Demolisher (LC)
Vanquisher (LC/maybe Pask?) ( *can't believe I'm saying this* )

Vendetta
Hellhound
Hellhound
*hell, I'd even go for the Inferno Cannon/Multi-Melta combo you put forward *

Comes to about 930pts which should give you enough points for several tiers of chaff units cordoning off your HS-choices; cheap special/hvy. weapons in those (20/30-men blobs w/Commissar?). Marbo. PBS (full!).
I'd then load up on HWSs with LC/AC load outs.

Corner deployment; split FA stuff off. They are going to die but everything hunting these will leave the rest of the army alone for a few turns. He may even split the CCBs off to hunt these as the corner deployment is bad for the fly-over-attacks.
I wouldn't worry much about the night fighting. Their range isn't the best so they'll have to close and we've got searchlights (glass half full & stuff).

You'll lose A LOT of units, no two ways about it but remember that we have more of everything just around the corner

Hope this is helping,
Juggernaut

Instead of the 20-30 man blobs try this, make them conscripts and add Chekov to send in the next wave. The vanquisher (yes I checked twice) is a waste for what you are trying to do. The standard battle tank would work better ,cheaper and more effective over all. A Punisher has a way of making annoying things with wounds go away . IN any case Pask is a waste of points and another reason why special characters are the worse thing in this addition.