Vanquisher vs. Monolith, 2d6 or 1d6?

A debate has started where I game as to whether the Vanquisher cannon uses 2d6 or 1d6 for Armor Penetration against a Necron Monolith.

Can anyone tell me where an official ruling (if any) has been made on this issue? Thanks for the help.

Shelor007

Ordnance weapons will always be able to roll 2 and take the highest. It's melta weapons and others like them that are penalized by not being able to roll 2 and add them together.

It sounds a little confusing but it basically breaks down like anything that can only add 6 to their Str for pen is good (2D6 and pick highest) anything that could possibly add more than 6 (2D6) is no good.

I'll see if I can get a page # from the Necron Dex to help with your debate.

You misunderstood the question.

Vanquisher Cannons use 2d6+Strength to determine Armor penetration, resulting in Penetration roles from 10 to 20.

The question is, does the Monolith special rule override the Vanquisher special rule?

Shelor007

I would assume that the AT rounds only get 1D6 since Necrons are cheese to the max.

I dont know of any specific ruling to prove this, but the general trend is that Monoliths arent meant to die.

Then they shouldn't come onto the field facing a Vanquisher.

I was always under the impression that the Vanquisher rule of adding two D6 together would be over-ridden, but it would be able to instead still fire an anti tank round (by this I mean with no scattering template), but just use the normal ordnance two D6 and pick the highest rule.

@ major speirs

This is also my impression. The monolith prevents 2d6 being added together, but you still roll 2D6 take the highest.

The question is if the vanquisher firing an AT round is an ordnance weapon or a heavy weapon. The rules state its HEAVY not ordnance (meaning just a single D6 - but can fire on the move).

Many players however treat it as ordnance.

Note the one weapon that is actually better against a monolith is the destoyer tank hunter. It's actually very good for hunting monoliths becuase it can move and shoot ordnance wihtout the blast template and rolling to hit.

Not sure what the answer is, but wouldn't the two "special" rules cancel each other out?

GW says Ordnance still rolls 2D6 and pick the highest because "the round is just so huge".
This implies that kinetic energy still has an effect on the living metal of a Monolith.

The Sabot AT rounds of a Vanquisher also works by kinetic energy, as it is the force of the impact that leads to penetration and destruction.

So fluffwise, yes, the Vanquisher should still get to roll 2D6 to penetrate.

The Monolith deserves every penetrating hit comming its way, IMO

OK I finally got pumped myself up to brave the crap contained within the Necron codex, and in the Monolith entry, it has a special rule called "Living Metal".

It states that "no weapon may ever get an extra D6 when rolling for penetration against it". It gives a couple of examples like chain fists and melta weapons, but I assume this applies for AT rounds too.

Ordnance weapons still roll 2 and pick the highest.

You only get 1d6. Regardless of what weapon, its 1d6. Necrons are teh cheeze.

only 1d6

there is only one thing that can use two d6s added to its strength against a monolith and thats the Vindicare Assassin (i think they said this as in the Assassin attacks the crystal directly) everything else including vanquishers dont get it, so i think a demolisher would be a better thing for taking out a monolith

to get stuff straight;
the vanqisher cannon can fire antitanks shot; ordinance, allthough they requires presice aiming, so can't be fired on the move. it rolls 2d6 for armour penetr.

Actually, I think you are thinking of the alternate shells rule in IA1 about not being able to move and fire the AT shell.

In the vanquisher entry, it doesn't say anything about not being able to move and fire, and lists the "normal" vanquisher cannon shot as a ordnance blast weapon. If you are using the alternate shell rules on a "normal" leman russ, you can't move and shoot the anti-tank round, but there isn't anything in the Vanquisher rules that state this.

In regard to the vanquisher shell vs monolith question, I have always taken that the vanquisher AT shell is an ordnance weapon so would get to roll 2 and take the highest when it penetrates. However, given how bit the monolith is, I always opt to just fire the normal battlecannon since it has a a better chance overall to get a hit when you consider how big the monolith is--plus even if you don't get a center hole hit on the monolith, you might still deviate onto some annoying necrons.

This post has been edited by Caanaan on Dec 4 2006, 09:14 PM