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 Steering Turning Radius Short One Side
GunnersWillys
Posted: Mar 24 2012, 05:53 PM


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'58 3B. Right turn the Jeep is fine. It bottoms out against the stop. Left turn it's 3/4's of an inch short. And very obvious when making a left turn.

I'm not sure if I've done something to cause this or not. I put new tires on, NDCC's, and I notice this now after the fact. The previous tires were a little too big and rubbed on full turn, so it may have been a problem all along.

I also replaced the bearings in the bell crank and reworked one end of the connecting arm (couldn't get the other end off). The end I replaced was really sloppy. And I adjusted the steering gear, adjusting screw only. I didn't mess with shims.

Possible causes per the book are "center bolt in spring sheered off, axle shifted, steering arm bent, steering arm not properly located on steering gear."

Nothing is bent, and I don't see how the axle could have shifted but I'll double check that. How could the steering arm not be properly located on the steering gear, and how do I check and adjust that?

Suggestions? Tks.


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58 CJ3B
Near Gainesville, Florida
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Duffer
Posted: Mar 24 2012, 09:46 PM


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Your adjustment of the drag link could have changed the centering of the steering wheel. Jack the front end up and check to see if the Ross box is limiting the left turn. You want it right in the center of its sweep with wheels straight forward.


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John, SW Montana

55 CJ 3B, transmake, 381 sbc, AGE M22W trans, "super" D18/teralows & Warn OD, 25 & full float 44/powrloc-4.10's (new axles coming soon), 4 wheel power discs, Saginaw PS, Warn 8274

68 CJ5, stock 225, T86AA, D18w/ Warn OD, 27A & stock 44-4.88's, 11" brakes, stock Ross box, Belleview 6000 (a close to stock vehicle, including the Whitco top)
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GunnersWillys
Posted: Mar 25 2012, 12:23 PM


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It is definitely not dead center. How do I adjust?


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58 CJ3B
Near Gainesville, Florida
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oldtime
Posted: Mar 25 2012, 04:42 PM


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Remove drag link at Ross and check it seperatly.


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1953 TRANS-VINTAGE CJ-3B / AC 4693 fuel pump / YF 938 SD / Hurricane / 9-1/4" Auburn clutch / T90-C / 2.46 ratio D-18 / Warn O.D. / 5.375 final drive / Powr Lok Front + Rear / Dualmatic drive flanges / deluxe Koenig half cab / 12 volt generator
2nd full re-build using the best from all vintages of CJ-3B

1962 OPTIONAL-STOCK CJ-3B / Warn O.D. / Tigertop / Transport yellow (orange)
Currently serving as my one and only DAILY DRIVER

St Louis
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GunnersWillys
Posted: Mar 25 2012, 06:09 PM


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Hmm. Check the Ross? Check the drag link? Check it for what exactly. Sorry, not comprehending.


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58 CJ3B
Near Gainesville, Florida
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Duffer
Posted: Mar 26 2012, 09:28 AM


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QUOTE (GunnersWillys @ Mar 25 2012, 06:09 PM)
Hmm. Check the Ross? Check the drag link? Check it for what exactly. Sorry, not comprehending.

The only adjustment you have is in the tie rods but if the adjustment if so far off that the Ross box is hitting its travel limit to the left it will not be easy to find where the center of travel is without disconnecting the drag link or connecting rod from the box. There isn't any length adjustment in the drag link, only a minimal amount to get the right preload on the ball seats.

Soooo: As Ken suggested, disconnect the drag link and find the center of the Ross box travel. I don't think it really matters which end. With the front jacked up so you can turn the wheels, aim both straight forward. You should measure the distance between the wheel rims in a horizontal plane at this point so you can get the toe-in back close to where you started. Then adjust BOTH tie rods so you can reattach the drag link WITHOUT moving the Ross box from the center of its travel that you found previously. If you turn both tie rods the same number of rotations you should be close. Do this so your toe-in ends up the same place you started at. Clear as mud?

Being a bit anal (as I have been told), I always take them to the alignment shop to get a final toe-in adjustment but have friends that just set toe-in to spec (3/64 to 3/32") and run them.

Hope that helps.


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John, SW Montana

55 CJ 3B, transmake, 381 sbc, AGE M22W trans, "super" D18/teralows & Warn OD, 25 & full float 44/powrloc-4.10's (new axles coming soon), 4 wheel power discs, Saginaw PS, Warn 8274

68 CJ5, stock 225, T86AA, D18w/ Warn OD, 27A & stock 44-4.88's, 11" brakes, stock Ross box, Belleview 6000 (a close to stock vehicle, including the Whitco top)
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oldtime
Posted: Mar 26 2012, 10:21 AM


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Sorry about that.
I ran out of time to make a proper post.

1st) Check to see if pitman arm is lined up with notch on the sector shaft.
Correct that if need be.
2nd) Remove drag link at Ross connection.
Turn steering wheel fully right and fully left to locate the center of the spiral cam.
Adjust the sector shaft end play with the adjustment screw.
The tapered pins of the sector should slightly drag when at center of the spiral cam.
Remove steering wheel and position spokes so the wheel is straight when the spiral cam is on center.
Re-install the drag link.
3rd) With steering wheel centered the bellcrank should be positioned at a right angle (90*) to the crossmember.
Remove draglink and bend it if the bellcrank is not positioned at a true 90* angle.
4th) Adjust tie rods so both tires are perfectly straight.
This is accomplished by measuring tread to tread width at both the front and rear of the front tires.
5th) Adjust for toe-in. Turn both tie rods in 1/2 turn each.
6th) Adjust steering stops to the correct angle.
This angle depends on tire size and specific front axle shaft type.


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1953 TRANS-VINTAGE CJ-3B / AC 4693 fuel pump / YF 938 SD / Hurricane / 9-1/4" Auburn clutch / T90-C / 2.46 ratio D-18 / Warn O.D. / 5.375 final drive / Powr Lok Front + Rear / Dualmatic drive flanges / deluxe Koenig half cab / 12 volt generator
2nd full re-build using the best from all vintages of CJ-3B

1962 OPTIONAL-STOCK CJ-3B / Warn O.D. / Tigertop / Transport yellow (orange)
Currently serving as my one and only DAILY DRIVER

St Louis
Top
GunnersWillys
Posted: Mar 26 2012, 04:38 PM


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Joined: 31-October 11



Wow. Thanks both Duffer and Oldtime for the greater detail. The steering wheel is about 1/4 of a full turn off of being centered in it's full stop to stop cycle when the wheels are centered. And looking at the front wheels, they appear to be a bit of a mess for toe and camber. It tracks nice though.

Bend the drag link huh? That should be fun. Sounds like a job for this weekend and when I can borrow a second set of eyes and hands. I'll post results.


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58 CJ3B
Near Gainesville, Florida
Top
oldtime
Posted: Mar 26 2012, 06:38 PM


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You really need to verify for correct frame alignment before aligning the steering.

Bending the drag link is not a common procedure.
In fact it is my own technique.
Sometimes the steering geometry goes askew from frame flexing etc.
The procedure may be mandatory if the frame is straight and the bellcrank is out of alignment.
But first check the pitman arm for correct engagement.
So follow the sequence as indicated above.

Also note that the center of the spiral cam may not be exactly 1/2 way from full left to full right.
Turn the Ross adjustment screw in till you feel the drag at cam center.


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1953 TRANS-VINTAGE CJ-3B / AC 4693 fuel pump / YF 938 SD / Hurricane / 9-1/4" Auburn clutch / T90-C / 2.46 ratio D-18 / Warn O.D. / 5.375 final drive / Powr Lok Front + Rear / Dualmatic drive flanges / deluxe Koenig half cab / 12 volt generator
2nd full re-build using the best from all vintages of CJ-3B

1962 OPTIONAL-STOCK CJ-3B / Warn O.D. / Tigertop / Transport yellow (orange)
Currently serving as my one and only DAILY DRIVER

St Louis
Top
jyotin
Posted: Mar 26 2012, 06:46 PM


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I've run across two different length drag links. Having installed the "short" one in a cj5 once, I learned the hard way that the "long" (correct) one is around an inch or so longer. I'm not sure what the application was for the short one -- perhaps a 2 or 3 A??

I had a pile of drag links and I had grabbed the cleanest one -- which proved to be the wrong one. They are identical except for length.

Before you try bending anything --- has the steering been tampered with recentlY?

Is it possible that the drag link was inadvertently swapped?


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It's just my luck that something good is going to happen to me today.
54 - 3B - down on the farm
67 - cj6 - former state of Alabama vehicle
?? - cj5 T98a - made from spare parts - Ford tractor blue
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Bryan
Posted: Mar 27 2012, 01:43 PM


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QUOTE (jyotin @ Mar 26 2012, 06:46 PM)
I've run across two different length drag links. Having installed the "short" one in a cj5 once, I learned the hard way that the "long" (correct) one is around an inch or so longer. I'm not sure what the application was for the short one -- perhaps a 2 or 3 A??

I had a pile of drag links and I had grabbed the cleanest one -- which proved to be the wrong one. They are identical except for length.

Before you try bending anything --- has the steering been tampered with recentlY?

Is it possible that the drag link was inadvertently swapped?

I always wondered if the 'early' 3B and the 'late' 3B had different length drag links.

Way (way) back, in the days before the internet, I ordered a new drag link from the JC Whitney catalog. What I got was not the right length. Whitney's assured me that they sent me the drag link for a 3B. I ended up taking the parts out of the ends and re-using my old drag link. I still have the wrong one on a shelf somewhere. I'll pull it out and see if it is longer or shorter than the original.

I had also ordered a gas tank from them, and had to return it because they sent me a 'late' 3B tank, which was a slightly different shape, flatter I believe, and a different sender. That led me down the early/late path.


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1954 CJ3B...Original: F-134, T90, D18, Front and rear axles, Ross steering, Harrison heater
Replaced parts: Carter YF938SD, metal top fuel pump.
Upgrades: Front disc brakes (77 CJ5), rear 11" brakes (early 70's Wagoneer), dual master cylinder (Herm), roll bar, seat belts, custom wiring harness w/ turn signals, Carter glass bowl fuel filter, Tightsteer.
3rd generation of original owner
South central KY
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Bryan
Posted: Mar 27 2012, 05:35 PM


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Joined: 17-October 08



The original drag link is just under 25-3/4".

The drag link from JC Whitney is 24-7/8".


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1954 CJ3B...Original: F-134, T90, D18, Front and rear axles, Ross steering, Harrison heater
Replaced parts: Carter YF938SD, metal top fuel pump.
Upgrades: Front disc brakes (77 CJ5), rear 11" brakes (early 70's Wagoneer), dual master cylinder (Herm), roll bar, seat belts, custom wiring harness w/ turn signals, Carter glass bowl fuel filter, Tightsteer.
3rd generation of original owner
South central KY
Top
oldtime
Posted: Mar 27 2012, 06:20 PM


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Posts: 4,193
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Joined: 12-July 08



Yes that's certainly true concerning the CJ-5 draglinks.

But I have seen 3B draglinks that can vary by a quarter inch or more OAL.
It takes less than 1/4" of OAL to throw the bellcrank off from straight position.


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1953 TRANS-VINTAGE CJ-3B / AC 4693 fuel pump / YF 938 SD / Hurricane / 9-1/4" Auburn clutch / T90-C / 2.46 ratio D-18 / Warn O.D. / 5.375 final drive / Powr Lok Front + Rear / Dualmatic drive flanges / deluxe Koenig half cab / 12 volt generator
2nd full re-build using the best from all vintages of CJ-3B

1962 OPTIONAL-STOCK CJ-3B / Warn O.D. / Tigertop / Transport yellow (orange)
Currently serving as my one and only DAILY DRIVER

St Louis
Top
GunnersWillys
Posted: Apr 7 2012, 02:12 PM


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Group: Members
Posts: 131
Member No.: 1,286
Joined: 31-October 11



Well, I didn't expect this. Starting the adjustment process I realized the drivers side wheel would not bottom out full left, passengers would. So I started taking things apart and found this:

user posted image

Axle at the joint all bent up. Looks like the cap may have come off the bearing and the end of the short axle was banging on it, and what was left was stopping it from turning.

Too bad. I was taking it on it's first trail ride on Wednesday.


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58 CJ3B
Near Gainesville, Florida
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