My sad 3B story, ...sniff, sniff

So last January I turned my '63 over to a friend/mechanic to rebuild the engine. The two years that prceeded this I enjoyed coming here for information as I took on the body, paint, elec, brakes and running gear. The motor I felt was over my head and so I trusted my friend to do a good job.

After having strong words with him three weeks ago about his neglecting the "winter" rebuild that he started in Jan and then left untouched until the end of March, he finally got back on it and turned it out just last week. I picked it up and drove it home, all seemed well.

The next morning on my garage floor there were puddles (large puddles) of motor oil, gear oil and gasoline. I was steaming hot. I called him immediately and he says bring it back and we'll look at it. So I drive over to his place 10min away and as I am pulling in his lot a large bang comes from under the hood and steam billows out from everywhere.

Seams he neglected to change out the 50yr old freeze plugs for new ones when he boiled the block. I have since found this is an automatic step that any good motor builder does without question. The engine temperature soared as all the antifreeze dumped out and from what he tells me now, the head gasket blew at the same time and the head is now warped and needs re-machining.

Now I have all four fluid types dumping out of my 3B and if it wasn't a family hierloom I'd probably just part it out at this point. Either that or drive it up his you-know-what and call it a day.

Goose,
Sad news, indeed. I've almost been steered wrong by "experts" and have had to remain patient when a straight forward job (quoted as a few weeks) turned into months of collecting dust in the back of the body shop.

Believe it or not: If you know how to hold a wrench and read a torque gauge, you can rebuild this engine. I did this the first time as a HS student without any technical training (I later got a job in a garage and learned a whole lot!). Finding a good machine shop is all that's needed. Disassembly and reassembly are quite easy (I did my first disassembly on the ground without an engine stand!). Touching all the parts as they go back into the engine is kinda therapeutic, very satisfying, educational and fun!

Knowing what you know now, I would consider no payment and cutting ties altogether. Find another shop. I don't think this fella can be trusted. The presence of fluids on the garage floor indicate more problems than the freeze plugs.

This can be saved.

Wow! He definitely neglected more than freeze plugs. You don't need him for a friend.

don't let it discourage you goose, if you had to you could put a hamster wheel under the hood and still have fun in the jeep. hope everything works out well, sometimes the only thing we can do is keep plugging forward, no matter how big the rock is that we are dragging.

I have to agree with the other fellas on this.

Once you get into a rebuild you will find yourself thinking 'this isn't so hard'.

A trusted machine shop is a must, they are right.

Hey, I just ordered a rebuild kit for my wife's transmission. A few years ago, I wouldn't have dreamed of overhauling one myself. I did some research, discovered that I have opposable thumbs, and I'm launching into it.

These motors and transmissions aren't the magical mystery boxes that we had been led to believe they are.

Best of luck!

X2 on that!

Remember when you first started, Goose? You didn't think you could even tackle the brakes. Not only did you tackle the brakes, but all the body work and fabbed up mounts - you did it all in record time!! That's not to mention the awesome job you did on all of it - your jeep looks great!

It really sucks that this happened. Sure you're mad and discouraged - anyone would be. Take this, turn it into something positive. If you don't already have a manual, pick one up - they're pretty detailed on rebuilding the engine. This time, follow the manual and ask questions on here and rebuild it yourself. You will learn a lot and will have the satisfaction of having done the work yourself.

I have a block that I'm hoping to get to the machine shop in May and hopefully be bolting stuff back on starting in June and through the summer. Depending on how quick you are going to rebuild it, we may be going through our rebuilds at the same time!

Good luck Goose!

Goose,
I am with you.
For once in my life I would like to see someone do something correct on their first attempt and take pride in their work.

Lawrence

I feel your pain Goose but i did it so i"m 100% sure you can with the help of these great helpers here..GOOD LUCK

George

You know this is caused by the schools the mechanics go to... They might call them Mechanics butt if you think about it they only know how to replace parts,,,They dont know whats wrong with the motors or trannys or even gas tanks ,,, If its not a stock part that the comptor says they need to replace then they cant use it ,,, let me give you an example of a fender repair or replace,,, The Guy was from a contry that didnt have NEW parts from the factory,,, he repaired the fender & sent it on its way & even the customer was happy with the quick turn around & the workmanship... Butt it seems his company was firing the guy because he repaired the fender instead of replacing the fender,, So they could make a profit off the part sale... I have seen brakets bent to move something out of the way,, as it would have taking time to unbolt it ,, Its called flat rate ,, Company makes money & the mechanic makes money... so then they get the idea of opening there own shop & bring what they have been taught with them,,, I used to now a Old timer that could tell what was wrong with a motor before he opened the hood,,, But you see he didnt work for a company that charged 100 bucks an hour to work on a car ,, His idea of saving time was you bring or go get the parts for him ,,, Used to help him ,, from getting a wrench to reaching down in the compartment because he couldnt reach that bolt he dropped.. It goes on in every feild not just Cars ,,, Welding, Plumbing, roofing anything that needs craftmanship..

So many of you guys know what a Mig welder is ,,, Well the strongest weld is a Tig weld with Stick weld a close second,,, Butt every shop uses Mig 100%,, Why ??/ because its faster & cheaper as you dont have to know how to weld & you can use a mig welder,,, they make more money off the job,,, not because its the best way to do the job,,, Ive seen people mig weld a roll bar for a race car that did well over 200 mile an hour,,, We seen another car crash & the guy walked away un skavved,,, I said he can thank his welder for welding it up right ,,, that welder was me ,, I tiged ever joint,,, made sure I had the right filler rod and right gas & it took me twice as long to do the job,, If he had taken it to someone else say a flat rate Job shop he might not have walked away,,,

Ok Ill get off my soap box now ,, Wife tells me I need to fit in with todays way of doing things,, I say I still remember how it is sopposed to be done,,,

Thanks for all the sympathy and votes of confidence for my abilities but the problem now is not whether I could have done this myself but rather what to do with the motor and this guy now.

First off one of the reasons I farmed this out and am still unable to do this myself is lask of space. About the same time I brought the jeep to my mechanic, I also put my house (with garage) on the market. Not knowing how soon it would sell I didn't wanna be caught with a disassembled motor in a million pieces if I had to pack up and move. Sure enough the house sold in under two weeks from the time it was listed. And they say its a buyers market, lol. So now I'm in a little rented farm house with no garage and the jeep will be staying in my GFs carport once I get it back. No room there to wrench either.

The second issue now is what to do with my friend/mechanic who has the jeep again at his shop. I still believe his intention is to get it right and I've also seen his other work and it's good. He's an old school hot-rod builder from the west coast and his reputation preceeded him. Maybe he's got other things going on in his life and wasn't giving my project all his attention. I still owe some $700 on the build and now I know he's gonna eat another machine shop bill for the warped head not to mention his labor for a second time around. He's not getting any more money from me til it's perfect. The question is if he missed a $2 freeze plug what else might he have missed.

It's really about trust and lack of confidence in his work and whether I should have another mechanic tear it back down when I get it back. If I had the space and time I would do it myself but I don't.

actually this is not the case, according to Icar we are required to use Mig or use a resistance type spot welder, because there is a smaller heat effect zone on the weld. the cars of today are completely different, a tig welder omits a high frequency that will fry any nearby computer on the car.

and when we talk shop and labor rates, anyone who is going to weld on the car is a body man, and body shop labor rate is $44.00 an hour, a mechanical labor rate is nearly 100, and they never touch a welder.

we cannot even use heat to straighten a frame rail, because the high strength steel will lose its temper.

lol hoghead you got me all fired up on labor rates.

Sorry to hear of your situation. I was in similar despair a couple of months ago when i thought that i assembled the timing gear wrong. The great people hear helped me through kudos to Old time especially. The guys are right about engine assembly is not that hard. Get Moses Lindals Jeep rebuilding book (for 1941-72 jeeps). (not sure of exact reference) I goes step by step with ample pictures on engine assembly.

Give yourself time to reflect then jump back in!
-G

Goose,
Plan B. For me, with the Body shop I was using (where my body began to collect dust) was on an alternate route home. I began to stop in every day, Mon-Fri. to see how things were going. Yes, I got in the way and asked a lot of questions. But, it did spur some action and a major hurdle was completed.

By visiting often, you can "play dumb" and ask all those questions like, "Is this right?" or, "How did you do that?" I hope the second time is a charm.

Good luck.

Thanks guys but here's what I really don't know;

Once he's got it going again, do I drive it until I'm sure it's not gonna fail or should I (myself or another mechanic) tear it right back down to check the rest of this guys work?

Goose, that is a sad story...would another head speed up the process?