Any sketch for seat frames?, I need to make replica seats

[sinannasirli]

Hi All,

I need to re-make original 1953 seats. Can any of you provide me detail / sketch etc for the seats? Especially I cannot figure out the angle of the back side.

Thank you..

Sinan

PS: I cannot find an original seat , nor a nee one since I don't live in the states so only option is to let them made by welding.

[Larry (TX)]

Drawings alone with all the correct bends and curves, etc. would be a very tough undertaking for the average person, and fabricating the seats even harder, even if by an experienced long time welder, particularly if you are looking for original looking seats. Originals do come up for auction all the time on e-Bay, and new reproductions are available from a vast number of jeep parts vendors worldwide.

If the above isn't an option, do you not reside where there are at least automobile salvage and wrecking yards, at which you may be able to purchase some already made bucket type seats that could be adapted to fit in your 3B; (if so, I'd highly recommend going that route).

[sinannasirli]

Hi Larry thank you for the advice,

I live in Turkey, if you consider the freight, the new set of seat frames will cost me about 600-700 usd if I won't have any customs problems.

Most of the Willys seats are long gone in Turkey, they just rusted and vanished years ago, most of ppl have changed them anyway to modern seats.

I have the half of the frame (they cut the back part of the seat) and installed another seat on top of the frame.

So the width of the seat and body attachment parts are intact. I am more interested in the back portion ( height, maybe the angle (I thought to be 95-100 degrees)

Here more or less everything can be remanufactures if you have the correct metal and the dimensions (however only problem is I don't think they might be able to make the supporting "canals" at the back seat frame' (like the ones at the back part of the jeep).

I have ppl who can make the seat, I only have trouble finding exact info to give them

Thank you

[Rus Curtis]

Sinan,
Knowing you have half of a seat makes the issue a bit simpler! Shipping could get out of hand quickly, but I also feel that any pre-built part you can obtain just makes it easier.

Classic Enterprises has been adding parts to their expanding inventory.

http://www.classicent.com/jeep.php#4164

Their seat back panels are $35 ea (scroll down about a third of the page). I don't think it would hurt to ask for a shipping quote to see what kind of damage that creates. If you do get a tolerable quote, you are then only faced with bending the tubes for the seat back.

If no one beats me to it, give me a couple of days to measure the backs for angle radius etc.

p.s. I've been to Adana and Cappadocia years ago. Fascinating! I also developed a taste for tava (asked for it everywhere I went)!

[sinannasirli]

Hi Rus,

Thank you for the tip! I already contacted them and looks good so far.

If I finally can manage to make the seats, next time when you are over here in Istanbul I promise pick you up for lunch/dinner with any choice of tava

(Even if I cannot be my guest anyway)

Talk to you later..

Sinan

[Rus Curtis]

Sinan,
I don’t have a drawing program that would do this justice so hopefully I can explain.

I’ve included this link as it has several good images of seats (front, side and back) that will help with visualization). Take time to look at all the links as they will help.

http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Seat.html

Since you have the base of the seat frame, and based on your post, the legs are intact and mount in the appropriate holes / pivots for the drivers / passengers seat. I will also assume you have the two flat braces near center and the “L” angle brace at the rear of the base (for securing the seat pan). There is also a tube that runs from side to side on the back of the seat (at the base of the backrest) that when placed in the jeep, makes contact with the notched bracket welded onto the wheel wells. The driver’s seat has a bolt that enters from under the wheel well into this horizontal tube. The passenger seat just rests on its bracket.

I measured my driver seat only (assuming the passenger seat would be the same).
Leveling the bottom tubes and disregarding any lean (recline) it might have when placed in the jeep, all measurements are taken with the base tubes level.

Initially, the seat frame tubes rise off the base and angle back, after the “L” angle brace, steeply at 128* (I would call this the offset to allow the bottom cushion and the back cushion to touch but not overlap). It also angles in towards the center (or narrows) a bit too. The distance between the two bottom (base) tubes is 18 ½” but when the tubes rise to meet the back rest, they narrow to 16 ¼” between the tubes. From here up to the top of the backrest, they remain 16 ¼” - inner edge to inner edge.

After this offset, the backrest is also more vertical and angles up at 109* until the top of the backrest.

Radius bend where the backrest vertical tubes bend over to form the top tube section is about 2 ¾”

Also the back rest plate that sits on the vertical tubes has a curve built in. At the bottom it has a 1” bow in the center (measured from straight edge across the tubes). This bow is also in the tube at the base of the backrest – the tube that makes contact with the wheel well brackets. There is also about a ¼” lip bent back at the base of the backrest plate that cups this horizontal tube (the one that makes contact with the wheel wells). At the top of the backrest, both the horizontal tube and the backrest plate have only a 7/16” bow (measured from a straight edge across the tubes). The backrest plate makes contact with the vertical and top horizontal frame tubes along the centerline of the front of the tubes.

The length of the tubes are a best guess. The offset rise (from the base to the backrest) is about 4 ½” from the “L” angle brace on the base to the center of the bend that begins the backrest. From that point the backrest is 17 ¾” tall.

I hope this helps.

If I've left something out or created more confusion, let me know. I suspect you already know, but in case you need it, 25.4 mm = 1"

[Lawrence]

Rus,
Will "E" Mail you pics of front seats if you desire.

Buddy

[Rus Curtis]

Hey Buddy! Yeah, some of those links are images of your seats from the 3B page. I just figured there were enough pics already.

But, if this project for Sinan gets more inovolved and he needs more, I'm sure we all can pitch in!

[sinannasirli]

Hi Lawrance,

I carry your pictures in my Iphone. In a separate folder, even has a special folder, and has priority view compared to my family pictures

But more pics of the seats would be great!

Rus,

THe explanation is superb! What I am missing is the L bracket at the back since they cut the base frame at the back and I don't know how much I have lost there.

So if you somehow give me a guideline of the base tube length (from the front curve to the back maybe?) this will help me a lot.

Besides I am planning to make a sketch and after your validation if the specs, we can maybe publish this here, it might help people who are far away from seat frame manufacturers.

Still no reply from classic enterprises, will email them again.

Thanks and Regards,

Sinan

[Rus Curtis]

Sinan,
Okay, I'll need couple more days to copy some photos with line drawings to help explain the dimensions. Do you have the two cross members between the base tubes (for attaching the seat pan to the frame)?

[sinannasirli]

Hi Rus,
I have two cross members but looking to the photos lawrence sent me, mine are not original. Probably at some point they removed the cross members and welded two tubes to support the frame.

Thanks to you and Lawrance, now a good understanding of the original frame, and believe I can manufacture thigh.

Btw bad news, I have to pay 125$ for transport if I but the seat pans from Classic Enterprises. Totalling to 200 usd just for two seat backs. So I might skip this part, we shall see...

Thank you again

[Rus Curtis]

Sinan,
It makes sense that extra tubes may have been used to compensate if too much was cut away to make room for non-stock seats.

Just about done with seat measurements (in detail). do you still need them? I would rather send them to you directly vs. post what could end up being over 20 pics. clogging up our BB band width.

Sent you a PM.

[sinannasirli]

Finally after two months ! (better late than never) it looks like its happening?



But now I remembered that I had to put a blind nut inside the back tube, only after coming back home from the welder.

Thinking of how I can attach it to the wheel wells now?

Probably have to weld a nut onto the tube.

One of the main questions now...

Do I have to center the seat reference to the steering wheel?

If I do, the seat will look like it will sit too much on the right, and also the bracket will to be quite a lot to the side on the wells not centered.

If I use my current holes they make sense, but then the steering wheel is clearly not on the center of the seat?

I would say definitely forget about the holes and go center the wheel, but now I looked to cj3b page drawings and top view factory drawing, the seat if off centered?

[Rus Curtis]

sinan,
That is some serious quality work!!

I got your email! I have some ideas, but need to respond later tonight.

The blind nut will be easy.