new rebuild not starting

Howdy folks my name is Brandon Taylor. I am fairly new to gas engine, but pretty decent shape tree with diesels. I have a 69 cj5 with the F-head motor. I had the motor rebuilt at the local machine shop. I went to put oil pump in and after while priming it i realized it needed to be timed. So i found this site and timed it. The motor would then start but after turning over for long periods of time. I knew something was wrong. So after reading and rereading and studying. I realized i had put the oil pump in with the small side towards the top. I know therectically it should still run if everything was right in relation to that. But i didn't like that. So i pulled it apart and retimed it correctly. Key shaft in the 11oclock position, 1 at tdc on compression stroke, with rotor pointing at the 5oclock position. First attempt to fire it up took it awhile but it sputtered and then started but ran BACKWARDS for a second and died. I thought the heat was getting to me so i tried it again. Again the same thing. I tried adjusting the distributor around but all same results. I am LOST on this one. Any Ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

One commom mistake is installing the plug wires. The rotor turns counterclockwise from the 5 o'clock position .
Firing order 1-3-4-2

Welcome to the CJ-3B Bulletin Board !

This indicates potential for incorrect engine assembly.
Before the ignition timing can be set the valve timing must be verified or we cannot procede with confidence.
Please read: http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_B...opic=3722&st=30

Unless you have the wrong distributor (for your model and vintage) that oil pump position is incorrect.
Please read: http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Tech/DistributorInstall.html

Brandon,
I feel you were on the right track assuming all other things correct that timing could be achieved even if the oil pump was 180 out. Like you, I have to have some things just right. From reading your description, it sounds like you covered everything but pulling the timing cover to check the mark alignment on the two gears. Did you realign the marks prior to re-positioning the pump?

I can't say your machine shop did a bad job. You got it started, but it seemed to get worse after trying to reposition the pump. Other things could be contributing to start/run issues like carb, coil, plugs, etc.

So, I'd recommend get one thing right (timing) then check it. If you try to fix two or three things while troubleshooting, you can dig a bigger whole.

Oldtime thanks for the links. I must have been distrot. You have no idea how many times i read the specs and tips page looking for something to help me. I never saw the distributor install and it was right under what i've been reading. Today i will check the valve timing with the method you described and retime the pump and distributor. The article makes much sense as i didn't think everything timed corectly with the rotor and #1 the way i had it. You would be at your max on advance or retard. Hope this works out for me as i am ready to hear it bust off with the touch of the key.

I retimed the distributor. And checked the valve timing. I was able to get it to run. It starts everytime but takes it a moment. It is if evertime i let off the key start it cranks. When i checked the valve timing it looks as if when #1 is at TDC the #4 intake starts to depress at about 4or5* ATDC. I am worried about this. Do i need to run the valves or is it really out of time. I am almost positive before i put the timing cover on i checked to see if the dots lined up. I do know that my key shaft for the woodruff key on the crankshaft for the outer pully was worn out. But when placed together it was tight, and number 1 piston is truely at TDC when timing mark says it is. It does run rough, and smoke. It will run up the rpms. I also need to recheck gap and put a timing light to it.

This indicates that the key switch is possibly defective.
Do you have a multi - tester or a ohm meter available to test the switch ?

Yes this is a problem.

This could be the reason for the above problem but only if the key slot was in obvious non servicable condition.
Was the crankshaft gear in good shape ?

Please re-verify your valve timing and describe what you observe:

How to check Hurricane valve timing without removing the front timing cover.

1st Remove all 4 spark plugs.
2nd Remove intake valve cover.
3rd Manually rotate crankshaft clockwise until the #1 piston begins coming up on the compression stroke.
4th Continue to rotate crankshaft clockwise until timing marks align at #1 TDC.
5th Turn crankshaft back counterclockwise about 1/4 of a full turn.
6th Now estimate where 9* BTC is with the timing indicator.
-This will be 1/4" ahead of the 5* BTC mark
7th Carefully observe the #4 intake valve while slowly turning crankshaft clockwise.
-The #4 rocker arm should begin to press down on the #4 valve at 9* BTC.
-Realize the #4 intake valve will begin to open at 9* BTC and will continue to open a little ATC.
-If you do not observe the #4 valve being slowly depressed (opened), the valve timing must be wrong.
-If the valve timing is wrong the front timing cover must be removed to align the crankshaft and camshaft gear dots.
8th After valve timing has been determined to be correct, it is fine to check the ignition timing.

I finally had a chance to pull timing cover off today. This is what I found dots not perfectly online but no way for them to be perfect with the location of dots. I would assume that this is in the correct place.

Yes, that appears to be a reproduction crankshaft timing gear.
The alighnment marks do not look correct to me.
Please read:
http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_B...?showtopic=4125

I have an original crankshaft timing gear available in case that will help.
Let me know and I'll list it o the F/S forum or just PM me.

The tooth to the right of the dot on the camshaft gear is the tooth i need lined up with the dot on the crankshaft. the crankshaft timing mark looks to be in the right spot in location to the keyway. My question is this is a fully assembled motor what would be the best way to line em up. Taking the crankshaft gear off and turning cam gear and then slideing crank gear back on. Or trying to take off the cam gear turning crankshaft and slideing back together. Man do i hope this will fix all my problems.

Actually both the crankshaft and cam shaft timing gears look to be aftermarket.
It certainly appears that these timing marks are a problem.
So follow the provided link insructions closely.
The fiber camshaft timing gear can be pulled GENTLY.
Or maybe you can access the two retainer bolts below the fiber gear and pull the whole camshaft with gear out just far enough to mesh the correct teeth.
Or you can use a stronger puller on the crankshaft gear.

Oldtime in case nobody has said it "your my hero". I was able to use a screwdriver and crank gear slide right off. Moved everthing, put it all together. Cranked on it a bit and off she ran. Sounded so much better this go round. Shut it down and tried again. Still a little hard to start but does start. I think a little fine tuning elsewhere and well be wheeling for long. Thanks a bunch. Would not have got it done without you.

Glad that you got the valve timing issue corrected.
As I stated previously the crankshaft timing gear should be a very snug fit.
If you have future problems with it I suggest that you install a used original timing gear.
If the gear is loose at all it could cause the valve timing to be a tad late or it might even fluctuate.
Those 2 conditions will manifest as inability to fine tune the engine. Sputtering !

Not really trying to sell parts, I'm just trying to help.
I'll post one in the F/S forum.

Oldtime no need to post the gear in the f/s. My gear is not loose it is in good shape. I do appreciate the offer though. Sorry if I made it sound like it was worn out. I will keep yall updated on my progress. My next hurdle is to find a radiator that will fit. I don't wanna pay $500 for a radiator.