Original soft top bows, Correct length for front set

[Dom]

G'day all,

As it's summer where (probably) most CJ3Bs reside, I'm hoping someone with an original top - with it currently removed to enjoy some sunshine - can help me out.

My old 3B had been left out in the open with the bows in situ for many years before I picked it up; as a result both L and R front bows have rotted away at the bottom end.

There is some detail elsewhere on this site regarding bow length. I've used that as a guide to fabricate new tube sections, but I was hoping to validate that with a quick visual check. I've made them longer than they need to be and will trim them back to the correct length with a pipe cutter.

I've laid my front and rear bows against a wall with the curved ends sitting on flat ground, exactly lined up all toe-to-toe; these have been treated to clean them up, but you can see the rusty ends. These images were taken before stitching on the new ends:





If someone is readily able to perform the same check, could you please let me know when the bows are similarly positioned, how many inches/mm the rear bows stand taller or shorter than the front bows, if they do differ at all?

Thanks, regards Dom

[Lawrence]

Dom
This is an old pic. I will check measurements the next time I get down to where my jeep is stored and forward them to you.
http://www.film.queensu.ca/cj3b/Owners/WadeBows.html

Lawrence

[Larry (TX)]

Dom,

I just went to the shop and measured an NOS set of bows I have. The rear bow is 1 1/4" (if you're into precision, it actually measured 1 9/32") longer than the front bow.

Hope that helps!

[Dom]

Thanks very much Lawrence and Larry - greatly appreciated!!

[Rus Curtis]

Dom,
I too have a front set of bows showing the same rot as yours. My plan was to patch in some fresh tube but needed to know the length. I'm glad some 3B owners have these parts to compare against.

If you want to see dedication to a hobby, check out this thread on the CJ2A Forums where detailed drawings are posted as they go through the process of measuring original bows and correcting those dimensions. Then the actual construction of the bows afterwards!

http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/top-bows...7798_page1.html

There are multiple .pdf files throughout. The earlier dimension graphics got updated and adjustments incorporated in the later posts, so you'll need to scan through some of the 51 pages of this post.

It would be interesting to have our members (Lawrence, Larry and others) compare these dimensions to see if they hold up to later bow versions (my guess is they will) since there is mention of 1st, 2nd and even 3rd generation bows. I noted obvious differences of the door rods as the windshield frames are different between the 2A and the 3A/3B. But the front and rear bows seem to be the same - at least to me.

One interesting note I didn't pick up on until reading some of those posts for the third time is the front bow sockets apparently tilt backwards to give the front bows a lean (to the rear) of about 1" at the top. This caught a few off guard as they hadn't noticed the lean at first. If I were to guess why, I'd say it helps when using the half top configuration to keep the top taught - but that's only a guess. I want to check this on my jeep too.

[Dom]

Hi Rus,

Wow - thanks for the additional info! I have ended up purchasing new repro front bow sockets as mine were too far gone. I would have just installed them with bows vertical, but now I'll check with the front horizontal rods in place to see (hopefully) whether theres meant to be a rearwards rake as you describe, for the 3B. Although it may only be an earlier jeep thing? Anyway, I'll experiment with what's left of the old sockets before installing the new.

[Lawrence]

Rus,
Rear bow 33 3/4"
Front bow 32 1/2"
The length of the center space rod will indicate if the front bow has a lean from verticle or not. The lean could be true if the length of center space rod is accurate.
Also the position of the windshield will have an effect as the center space rod is placed in a slot at the top of the windshield and also in a slot in the top of the front top center bow.
See pic of Willys Canvas Top Skeleton.
http://www.film.queensu.ca/cj3b/SoftTopHistory.html
Make sense?

Buddy

[Dom]

G'day Lawrence,

That center space rod - it's a fixed length by the look of it? Mine was missing most of the rods, all I have are the horizontal ones that run from the front bows to the corners of the windshield. These have adjustment nuts on the end of them so I can't gauge the distance properly using those.

Could I impose to ask just one more favour please? When the center space rod is in place, what distance does it set up between the loop on the windshield and the loop on the front bow? Maybe said a better way, what is the straight line distance between the two tangs on the rod itself?

I'll probably fab something locally to suit, same with the door upright rods and the rods between front and rear bows. Not today's problem, nor tomorrow's, but one day.

Thanks again for all your help, it makes the job so much easier!!

[Rus Curtis]

Dom,
You read my mind! While I've decided to keep a copy of JPET's work from the CJ2A page for reference, I didn't want to rely on their measurements between the windshield and front bow (I'm sure there are differences as they are concentrating on an earlier model). It also appears the 2A version is a tube with the ends clamped flat to form the tabs (it's length is 32.75" measured from outside edges of tabs). So far, the images I've seen of the 3B center rod make me think it is a solid rod.

Let's take this a step further. Lawrence, along with Dom's request, could you take a couple of close ups of the ends to show the bends in detail (I'm curious about the short "dog-leg" bends just inside of the tabs)? It would make fabricating a bit easier.

I'm kinda in the same boat, eventually I'd like to have a frame to use for a half-top.

Thank you!

[Lawrence]

Dom,
Hope these measurements of the rod will help.







Lawrence

[Rus Curtis]

That was quick, Lawrence!! A big help!!

[Lawrence]

Rus,
Bar-B-Q is still available.

Buddy

[Rus Curtis]

Lawrence,
email on the way!!

[Dom]

Thanks very much again Lawrence.... I'll print all the info out and put it in the 3B file so I don't need to go looking for it later...



actually, MUCH later..!




the longest journey starts with a footstep..sigh..

regards

Dom

[sinannasirli]

Guys,

thank you to all posted info to this post. i went to a machinist today to bend some pipe for my front seat ( finally i will do it) meanwhile thanks to you i let them manufacture another set of top bows which i was missing.

i will have to cut them to exact measurement but it looks i have done my repro set.

rus you again solved another problem of mine by supplying that link.

i will post pictures in a week or so when i can work on welding and cutting them etc., but below it gives an idea

And the best is so far all pipes for seat frame and top bows costs me only 50 bucks this way