Title: The Dirk and Loren gaff in TO
Description: for those that have read Trojan Odyssey
DirkPitt - February 20, 2004 05:53 PM (GMT)
Spoiler !! if you havn't read Trojan Odyssey yet, the following will disclose part of the book.
Since Charlie Smith's death (Loren's father) was an integral part of Vixen 03, I'm thinking that CC did not write the wedding scene in TROJAN ODYSSEY in which Loren was escorted by her father. After listening to Clive and the interviews I've read, I believe his memory is outstanding.
Maybe his son, Dirk Cussler wrote the ending to TO. That wouldn't surprise me since Dirk's already completed the manuscript for the next Dirk Pitt adventure.
mr periwinkle - February 21, 2004 02:11 AM (GMT)
I didn't pick that up! Clives memory may be okay.But this donkeys sure isn't!
Its good to know you can come back from the dead. :huh:
LaFemmeMi - February 21, 2004 05:36 PM (GMT)
Hello Members, we seem to be the few among the many who haven't stumbled across this website as yet.
I just finished TO and my head is still swimming in foreign climates, gazing upon azure waters, buffeted by tropical breezes. I find it difficult to reenter my own reality. I'd rather be aboard a NUMA vessel chugging off to another adventure with Dirk and Clive. Like Loren and Summer, I'm a redhead (by choice) and would love melting into those opaline green eyes I've heard so much about.
Where are you Clive Cussler?
DirkPitt - February 21, 2004 05:55 PM (GMT)
Welcome LaFemmeMi !!
I can hear your heart beating from here .. lol
You have "stumbled" across this website within 24 hours of launching ... wow
Your mention of Summer (the original from PV) reminds me of a new topic I'm putting up, so check it out.
LorenSmith - February 26, 2004 08:52 PM (GMT)
I'm glad you mentioned this. I almost felt like TO was written by a different author. Not only Charlie's resurrection, but during the river journey, Al orders gin then 3 pages later is drinking Scotch. Or it may be the other way around, can't remember. But the action just wasn't the same. I'm not used to nobody having to check into a hospital for an entire book. Also, do Sandecker's cigars come from Nicaragua or the Dominican Republic? I've seen both in the books. Can't stand inconsistencies!
Love the site.
Delphi - February 29, 2004 04:07 PM (GMT)
Although very petty - in the earlier books Al is said to steal Sandecker's cigars. But in a more recent book (not sure which) it's explained that Al uses the same source as Sandecker to buy the cigars.
P.S. I guess we as Cussler fans are pretty lucky that these are the only things to complain about.
WNG-A-Pitt - February 29, 2004 04:53 PM (GMT)
Al's always stolen Sandecker's cigars.. Clive just never put it into his books until recently. =\ But the part on where it comes from I can't answer ;) . Another glitch I guess <_<
WNG-A-Pitt - February 29, 2004 04:55 PM (GMT)
Oh whoops, that's wrong I worded it the wrong way.
Sandecker has always thought that Al stole his cigars and still does but the books recently have put in that Al gets them from the same source as Sandecker does.. Sorry i dunno what i was talking about on my last post here ;)
hiramyaegar - February 29, 2004 06:20 PM (GMT)
I agree, CC has a great memory. However, nobody's perfect and everybody's bound to make a mistake. I, personally, doubt that somebody else wrote the ending, but it is possible.
WNG-A-Pitt - February 29, 2004 06:23 PM (GMT)
Well, his son, Dirk Cussler, is supposed to take over writing for him so it's possible that he finished off the book as either a test to see if he could do it, just some experience, or any number of other reasons.
Cyclops - February 29, 2004 11:40 PM (GMT)
|QUOTE (Delphi @ Feb 29 2004, 04:07 PM)|
|Although very petty - in the earlier books Al is said to steal Sandecker's cigars. But in a more recent book (not sure which) it's explained that Al uses the same source as Sandecker to buy the cigars.|
P.S. I guess we as Cussler fans are pretty lucky that these are the only things to complain about.
My understanding of the cigar business is that Sandecker never quite could figure where Al came up with the same cigars. Sandecker would check his supply and find none missing, although he believed that he was the only person who had such custom cigars made up for him. Al would produce a cigar in front of Sandecker and the mystery would continue. It was mentioned in a couple of books that Al had discovered Sandeckers source and had them secretly make them up for him.
Loren - February 29, 2004 11:55 PM (GMT)
:rolleyes: That is exactly how it went!!
dachstratton - March 1, 2004 04:33 AM (GMT)
I agree with those of you who said the book seemed a little different. It was good , but just different from the past books. I think Clive is letting Dirk age like Clive himself is aging. I don't want to see him get old in the books, I would like to see Dirk Pitt stay eternally young like James Bond in all the Ian Fleming stories. And I definately don't want to read about Dirk Pitt Jr. and his twin sister in action. Just keep Dirk Pitt with the grey temples along with Al Giordino.
Also, in regards to some mistakes in the book. Was it my inability to read correctly, or was Hobson Morton described first as a bald man, then a man with grey temples and bushy blond hair? in the same paragraph pg 63
Cyclops - March 1, 2004 01:18 PM (GMT)
In reference to Dirk's getting married - it had to happen. Clive is getting on in years and he wants Dirk to do the same. I personally will miss Dirk and I can't see Curt Austin really taking up the slack. I have to admit that I was actually kind of emotional as I read the end of Trojan Odessy. I was like a girl at the wedding getting all slobbery. I feel like it is the end of something for me, but that Dirk deserves to be happy. I think that Cussler will roll with the idea of Sandecker retiring and Dirk being NUMA director with Austin taking over Dirk's job. It should work well - I just hope the quality of writing of Kemprecos and the rest gets a little more up to Cussler speed.
WNG-A-Pitt - March 1, 2004 08:09 PM (GMT)
Dach, in my book it's page 64 ;) , but ya that's weird... What i find strange is Dirk Pitt Jr and Summer Pitt's inability to cope the same way Dirk Sr. does. They can barely survive on their own. I don't know but i'd never guess Senior would ever give up hope and not find a way to get out of anything. It seems Dirk Seniors unique talents don't run in the family :( , But maybe they jsut need training <_<
Teaser - March 1, 2004 08:34 PM (GMT)
Although my heart is with you all and I find my head nodding as I read you text, please don't forget that we all move on and its better for our heros to step aside timely than for them to go on forever making a mockery of all we believe in.
Nobody lives forever! I'm all for giving the newbies a go and Kurt because in the end I know where they all came from ............Dirk Pitt.....!!!!!!!!!!!
HiramYaeger - March 1, 2004 09:06 PM (GMT)
|QUOTE (hiramyaegar @ Feb 29 2004, 06:20 PM)|
| I agree, CC has a great memory. However, nobody's perfect and everybody's bound to make a mistake. I, personally, doubt that somebody else wrote the ending, but it is possible. |
I HAD THE NAME FIRST!!! :lol:
Nah, s'all good.
HiramYaeger is the best character ever B)
dachstratton - March 2, 2004 03:14 AM (GMT)
Yea, I agree. the way it sounded in the end of TO, Dirk Sr. is going to be Sandecker, and Dirk Jr. and Summer will be doing the missions. I bet when the next book comes out, Dirk is already in Sandeckers position and Sandecker is vice president. I never really thought about Kurt Austin being involved. I thought he would just be in the other books and he would stay seperate. Unless you know something I don't. I have never read any of the Kurt Austin books, although I have all of them. every time I think about reading one of them, I just get one of the old Dirk novels out. Maybe I'm procrastinating, maybe I feel like he's cutting in on Dirk's action. I don't really want to read about anyone but Dirk SR. Maybe I 'll start Serpent tonight. I read the first Chapter, then Trojan Odyssy came out and I immediately bought it. I know one thing, I am about as excited to get the next Dirk novel as I ever have been before. Who knows what will happen?? should be fun!!
Chandler - March 7, 2004 03:19 PM (GMT)
I might be wrong on this, but does CC actually write the Kurt Austin novels? Much like Tom Clancy does with Op-Center and the rest of the "Tom Clancy's..." novles, does CC just lend his name to them to get the sales up? Perhaps his son actually writes the novels and Dad just lends his name.
I agree with what one of the posters said about Dirk Jr and Summer not being able to get out of a shoebox without Dad and Al, but perhaps Dirk Jr will learn from this adventure and get better. Now Summer to me is a lot like the girl on Smallville; if she died, I wouldn't shed a tear. Just an excrutiatingly poorly written character.
Also, I know this is horrible, but did anyone else notice what was almost flirtingbetween brother and sister all during the book? Just plain disturbing.
JimC - March 9, 2004 04:54 PM (GMT)
I agree with all of your comments.
The twins seem weak and helpless without Dad to save them, and their relationship does seem strange. We need someone other than Dirk Jr. admiring his sister (maybe Kurt Austin).
Nic0demus - March 10, 2004 02:07 AM (GMT)
I think that, given time, the twins could grow and mature into self-reliant human beings, not only capable of solving the things their father has, but providing us, the audience, with a great read...I guess only time will tell...
MrKABC - March 18, 2004 10:44 PM (GMT)
With regard to the stogies:
In earlier books, Giordino was stealing the cigars. I believe it was Cyclops that referred to Sandecker discovering that ..."no matter how well he protected his cigars he found two missing every week..." and "...only an old Air Force buddy knew the actual details of 'Operation Stogie'..."
Later books revealed that Giordino actually got his cigars from the same source Sandecker did.
Minor gaffe, but it's there! :P
DirkPitt - March 19, 2004 12:59 AM (GMT)
Welcome MrKABC !!
Interesting observation you made concerning the cigars. Did Sandecker actually thwart Al's thieving ways and forced him to scource the mother lode ?
kujo54 - March 19, 2004 03:45 AM (GMT)
I 'm glad someone else remembers Operation Stogie. I was starting to think I
had read a different version of the books than everyone else had.
LorenSmith - March 19, 2004 05:01 AM (GMT)
|QUOTE (dachstratton @ Mar 1 2004, 10:14 PM)|
| Unless you know something I don't. I have never read any of the Kurt Austin books, although I have all of them. every time I think about reading one of them, I just get one of the old Dirk novels out. |
Hey DachStratton: I felt the same way about Kurt Austin. My advice - read them...BUT I thought Serpent was horrible. Alot of talking and planning and not alot of doing. But if you can get through that one, the next ones get better and I now really like the characters in those. Especially Paul and Gamay Trout. It's a foursome instead of the twosome, so it has some neat differences. Give them a try!
LorenSmith - March 19, 2004 05:04 AM (GMT)
Can I bring up another inconsistency? Not to be a nit-picker, but this is something I've been wondering about. I don't remember which books it changed in, but concerning Sandecker's cigars, it keeps going back and forth between being hand rolled by a family in the Dominican Republic and Nicaragua (or Venezuela, I don't have a book out for reference). It always used to say DR, then a few books it said another country. But it seems to go back and forth?!?!
I have to remember Mr. Cussler wrote these books over a period of what, 40 years? And I've read them in less than 6 months so it makes it a little easier to notice these things!
Dennings' Demons - March 19, 2004 12:26 PM (GMT)
Oh well may be Loren had something old, something new, something dead, and something blue??? Just joking... CC is still the best adventure writer out there!!! " A new clive Cussler novel is like a visit from your Best Friend." - Tom Clancy
DirkPitt - March 19, 2004 02:07 PM (GMT)
Welcome Dennings' Demons !!
That Tom Clancy quote sure is one of the best out there and its true.
Kellym - March 24, 2004 05:58 PM (GMT)
So Charlie Smith did die in Vixen 03 and gave Loren away at the wedding in TO - phew! I'm not totally crazy :D
I remember operation stogie - it was in Treasure, wasn't it? :unsure:
Kellym - March 25, 2004 08:25 PM (GMT)
Something else that I picked up on was that in Floodtide I noticed that Dirk and Al worked with an archaeologist called Pat O'Connell and yet in Atlantis found Pat, Dirk and Al acted like they had never met before.
Maybe it's a 'clive' moment. She pops in now and again but they can never remember meeting. :P
tobic - March 28, 2004 02:07 PM (GMT)
Hi, I have just joined this forum, being an avid Clive Cussler, no, sorry, Dirk Pitt fan.
I have just finished Trojan Odyssey, and I got the vague impression that the first quarter of the book was not written by Clive, something was different about the style, its hard to put a finger on it...
I thoroughly enjoyed the storyline, except for the continual mention of Dirk getting old...
As for Dirk Jr and Summer, I agree with other posters, the characters need strengthening, at the moment they sound as if they should be in a Peter Pan movie...
Keep up the good work, Clive, along with Wilber Smith, your books are the greatest.
pac - April 7, 2004 09:49 AM (GMT)
maBee it A DIFERENT PAT OCONNEL why r we nip piccing his books like loren said he has been writing the books for 40 years and he is over seventy give the guy a break