You can't keep a good villain down.

Or a really bad one, either. Knew he'd be turning up at some point.

I like where this is going.

Giggidy.
P

How?

I know he got flung through time by his portal malfunction, but though dimensions, too?

Well, if things go completely south for him here, that will explain one bit of why Chrono Cross cannot happen in this reality. Of course, we already knew that Chrono Cross won't happen.

I still don't get why Trigger's gang couldn't stop him from doing his war or whatever. Especially in the DS version, where he tells them when and where ahead of time like the idiot he is.

Well now. ^__^ This is a pleasant surprise. And it paints for me an entertaining and ridiculous image: an entire organization of ineffectual comic relief villains. Who could be next on this hypothetical agenda? Lufia II's Berty and Bart? Secret of Mana's Scorpion Gang? Oh, the possibilities!

In Chrono Trigger itself, there's no clear answer about what happens to Dalton. The portal's completely black, so a trip to the Void makes as much sense as any theory. Perhaps from there he learned how to better control his transport? Or he might have just popped up in the world of FF VI. We might get a clearer answer in the next comic or two.

Before the DS version, I'd actually ascribed to the 'Dalton precipitates the Fall of Guardia' based on that Chrono Compendium theory. I presumed that, knowing the team's capabilities, Dalton made damn sure to neutralize them, perhaps via assassination. Questionable whether this could be pulled off -- and a depressing end result -- but it's a possibility. ... I mean, Dalton wasn't completely incompetent. Just mostly. He KO'd the whole party in a cutscene, for instance.

Yeah... The presentation there irked me, too. I guess Squeenix wanted to get across what caused Guardia's Fall in what might well be the last Chrono product they ever make. Unfortunately, they rushed it. So now it makes less sense. Dalton blurting out something like that to the most capable people on the planet and then having it work out for him, anyway... It stabs suspension of disbelief pretty hard.

I like to believe that the fall of Guardia follows the SNES game, while the DS game has a happy ending where Chrono and Co. stop Dalton as soon as he pops up in present time, due to knowing where and when.

I mean, the DS game already establishes multiple timelines, and it's not the DS crew's Magus who winds up an amnesiac shortly before the fall of Guardia (and possibly becomes Gil).

So if we're collecting SNES Square comic relief villains, all we need is Secret of Mana's Scorpion Army and we'll be all set. (Maybe throw in Ziegfried, Ozzie, Slash and Flea if you want to go overboard.)

How can you be forgetting Gilgamesh as a vital member of the comic relief villain lineup? After all, we know Alex played FFV from the presence of Krile and a reference to Exdeath in Nexus. He was even last seen in canon being banished to The Void via a mysterious portal, just like Dalton!

I don't know about how it officially happens (if there is an official explanation), but I remember there was the fan-made ROM hack that tried to explain it. Too bad I can't remember what that explanation was.

The DS Version does indeed specifically have Dalton arriving at the post-game Dimensional Rift (Dimensional Nexus?), sparring with the heroes, and then being allowed to run off as he declares he's going to destroy Guardia. Despite, unless I forget, having no way of knowing Guardia exists. Though the execution was a clunky, rushed footnote, it does jive with the developer of Chrono Cross's mention of a long-haired man involved with Guardia's fall, and how Porre's military received help from forces 'from beyond the normal flow of time.'

Crimson Echoes, the Chrono Compendium's ROM hack, leaves Dalton in 12,000 BC initially. He later weasels his way out via various other means (the Frozen Flame of Chrono Cross was involved) and is indeed heavily involved with Guardia's fall, largely by encouraging Porre's militarization.

Gilgamesh does canonically find himself barreling through the other Final Fantasy worlds, thanks to the Void and the Rift.

You see Gilgamesh in the actual FF5 Void later, and he walks away. I think that's why we don't see any FF5 characters, there's a very clearly defined Void in there, it's where the final battle takes place. Therefore any "voided" characters have a preset destination instead of the Desert or wherever the hell Celes/Kefka and Kidia are going.

My reaction to Dalton's appearance:

"Wait, what? Oh! Oh yeah! Sweeeeet."

Also, Ultros is coo'.

Nevertheless, Gil walking the FF multiverse via warp zones found in the Rift is entirely canon.

Admittedly, canon established after Alex left, but by then Gilgamesh HAD already appeared in VIII and IX, and the parts of his presence in the Rift that inspired that becoming canon did already exist.

Heck, in the Japanese version of VIII, when he shows up, he's muttering about Bartz.

I... I just realized. Ultros and Dalton?

...they're King Hippo and Eggplant Wizard.

(also, Dalton is a lo harder to take seriously when you realize he's not wearing a tunic or two colored pants... those are shorts and his bare assed legs)

We've seen Krile. She resurrected Amon.

Any minute now Siegfried is bound to show up... right? Juss sayin.

Don't you mean Ziegfried? :grin:

I mean I expected Dalton to show up eventually...

But that was really unexpected.

... that can't be right...

*Looks up official artwork*

Well shit.

Nice, never thought he'd show up.

And though he might be comic relief I always thought Dalton was one of the few truly evil Chrono Trigger villains. While the rest were mainly well-intentioned extremists or brainwashed and thus fairly sympathetic Dalton tried to take over after the fall of Zeal purely for himself.

Okay, if there was an exact opposite of what I was expecting...

Why did Alex not think Dalton appearing in the wrong RPG was significant again?

Oh, and the really funny thing - though not something you were likely to pick up from the SNES translation of FF3(6) - is that Maria's expectation of Ultros's intentions was actually a perfect fit for Ultros's actual personality. He made lecherous comments about Terra (again, you'd miss it in the SNES translation) and any female character you bring to his fight in FF4:TAY (and reportedly Serah in FF13-2 DLC, though I never buy paid DLC), and will only appear in FF12 to an all-female party.

I actually thought it was going to be Sigfried for a panel or two there.

I think Chupon says "Fungah!" and not just his name, but... meh.
I'm pretty excited to see Dalton. He's one of my favorite characters of all time. He's like Kefka-lite.

"All the crazy, with none of the threat!"

Agreed. ^__^ And the parallels are honestly striking.

- Both are met early in their native era; they complain about their jobs, are flanked by two henchmen, and show up near an impressive technological achievement.
- Kefka drains power from and mistreats espers.
- Dalton enslaves and mistreats Golems -- even when they're scared of heights!
- Both rise to prominence after the fall of a magical, floating land.
- Kefka litters his dungeon with very potent equipment.
- Dalton litters his dungeon with very potent equipment.*
- Both have less than impressive first showings in combat.
- Both have less than impressive last showings in combat.
- Kefka rules from above for about a year.
- Dalton rules from above for about a day.

* Sure, it's the party's stuff, but hey. >.>

He's like the Cobra Commander to Kefka's Starscream!

(also, I guess I still got Dalton's costume a little off. He does have a tunic, but he's still wearing shorts with bare legs)

Maybe he just likes shorts. They ARE comfy and easy to wear, after all.

You know, ironically (or perhaps intentionally referenced), Ultros is supposed to be a bit of a lecher. Song writer Hyadain even suggests that perhaps that's why he's in so much debt to begin with...

Dalton... set himself up as Ceasar to take the throne, except the throne was held by a Sorceress with the latest and greatest powers so not so much.

You know, as awesome as this cameo is, Alex's near-forgetting to even mention this makes me a little worried that they're about to all just get wiped out in short notice...

Because it's Dalton.

Chrono Cross had to try really hard to make him significant beyond "that guy who keeps imprisoning you in 12,000 BC".

How would Alex know if they were instantly wiped out? Terra inherited her father's memories, some of the other story threads have already started consolidating information by sharing flashbacks that we skip because we were there... at least one of these joke characters will survive. It will either be someone more erudite than Chupon, else Chupon's mind ends up read.

It didn't strike me has "forgetting to mention", but more "didn't want to talk about it"

Didn't want to talk about them at all or just didn't want to talk about them yet?

Didn't forget him. Gilgamesh was never on the SNES. It's true that some Super Famicom characters have appeared, from games Alex played on emulators, but only the Sailor Scouts have gotten any screentime and that was in a single scene. (Sure, a scene that lasted months, but still, not really a precedent for any character from any Japanese-only game showing up.)

Again, Krile has appeared. She revived Amon after he asploded. We've already seen FF5 in-comic (before the page after this specifically listing it)

Seeing the Scorpion Army shadows made me happy. I really hope they will make a short appearance.

And once more a refutation of something I never said. Again, with Dalton and the Ultros duo, they would only need Ziegfried and the Scorpion Army to have a full cast of Squares SNES[U] comic relief villains. FFV was never on the SNES (in-continuity or not), and FFII/FFIV didn't have any recurring comic-relief antagonists

Which is moot, since we can see Gilgamesh's shadow in the comic currently displayed. (Also, who cares about Ziegfried? He wasn't especially funny or significant in any way. Ultros and Chupon fit the mold far better.)