I am a lesbian/I am an Airman
I don't want to lie/I don't want to be discharged :T_T:

Well, this sucks. I've got some friends I trust I can stop lying to, and what's a couple more years of bachlorette hood, anyways. Heck, alot of people here complain about being bachlors regularly.

I get the feeling I will tell people the secret to finding female geeks, else joining in on the complaining, once my enlistment is up, though.

And should anyone find and tell someone in my chain of command about this, I shall have to hunt you down and kill you 27 times. Just so ya know. :grin:

I wish I could help, and I wish I could say I know how you feel. I don't. I can relate to your needing someone to tell, to trust this secret to after all this time, but frankly telling us is only a quick fix to the grief you feel. Soon, it may very well come down to a choice between your profession and sexual distinction, which sucks and definatly shouldn't be a choice you should have to make. The only advice I can give on this is from the wise words of Billy Shakes, " This above all else, to thine own self be true". I really hope everything works out for you. Be well.

Well, I can *kinda* relate... being *ahem* liberal in my tastes...

All I can ask is, how long is your commission? If you don't have much longer, then at least you won't have to keep it up any longer. I just would hate to see this get you into trouble :T_T:

Just think of us as your support group hun! I may not have out and said anything, but just letting loose here a bit has helped me a lot!

*hugs Spriteless*
It's just all over lousy. I hope things work out for the best for you...

Yay hugs!

I've just under 2 years left in my contract, and really, I shouldn't have any troubles with it. Even if I do it is the equivilant of a medical discharge; it won't hurt my ability to get employed elsewhere. Anyways, don't worry too much, I can'tmuchmiss what I've never had.

good luck spry..... You are the hottest real lesabien I have ever seen

Luppy knows how to make a girl feel wanted :P

Look, just remember, if ya need to talk, we are here. Sympathetic ear an' all :)

*Patpats Luppy* That's right... be strong...

*sigh*

Lousy anti-gay government.

Spriteless-- Wah. Well you're cute, smart and you've got your act togeather. You definitely deserve someone who's good to you. -_-
Oh well. All things in time...

You'll get yours. I don't know how, I don't know when, but the twilight of the bias against those of alternative sexual preferences is upon us. I can feel it.
YOu can make it through, I know you can. You go, girl!

I hope your right Randy. But I think we're a generation or two away from that.

I think that a lot of younger people would be spared a tons of self-doubt. See, I'm lucky. I was raised to have an open mind, and have open minded friends for the most part. Some kids aren't so lucky. Just like when I allowed myself to be a geek, admitting to myself that I find men attractive helped me make piece with a part of myself. It took a while for me to really come to terms with it, but with the help of a few really great friends, I *feel* better about myself.

Hell, letting my female side out a bit here has been a big help.


So hang in there Spry. You know you've always got friends here ^_^

Gah, so tired of this kind of behavior, it's rediculous. Honestly, if someone's willing to fight for their country, you wanna stop them because you don't agree with their lifestyle?! >< And it's always a question of morale, so they claim. "Well, some people don't wanna fight with the gays." Bullshit. You want someone who can fight with you, it damn well shouldn't matter if they think your ass is cute. Hell, take the compliment!

...Sorry Spry, you shouldn't have to go through this BS. I believe we're on our way to accepting people's lifestyles in all parts of government, but until then, stay strong. You've got people who will always support you.

I get the feeling the only people who care about the policy are the old fart generals anyways.

...because no one wants to look at their ass? *shot* *repeatedly*

Anyway, good luck, Spry. Don't let people being stupid make you go too nuts. ^^

Most likely. I remember COlin Powell was very much against Gays int he military.

Just let them die off! Heck, that would make everyone a little less wound up.

When I hear about stuff like that I always think of the Theban Sacred Band. It was an elite phalanx of 700 who were required to be gay lovers. They kicked ass in large amounts. Even beating the Spartans. So I think of that, and figure that the only reason they don't do it now is because.... the men in power think it's icky.

Uhg. "Icky"

People hate what's differnt. Sadly, parents STILL teach hatred. I hate to tell these fucknuggets that a gay person most likely has saved their lives at one point. Not to mention a lot of the most famous genius's in history were bisexual, if not outright homosexual. Hell, the Romans were one of the most successful civilizations in history.

Why? Cuz they were'nt so goddam uptight about who was doin' who. >_<

Well everyone here is wishing you the best. Sadly there are large portions of the population that have unwarrented prejudices. I have some bisexual friends, only thing I did when I found out was tell them I'm very much straight.

I know this is off topic but Mike, I have been taking a surveyy from people I know are homosexual, and being bi, I guess you count. Do you find david hasslehoff remotly attractive (I've gotten a universal responce so far but it's only been like 5 guys so far)

.....

.....

.....

NO!!!


Hasselhoff is.... disturbing...

the responce is... still universal...

hehhehehehe....

See, the key is to ask in Germany... they love him as much as France loves Jerry Lewis..

.... freaks...

Oh my god Spriteless, I had no idea....


You're in the military?!?!?! :O_O:


Well, it's an ugly situation. One of the characteristics of our military is that it tends to be very conservative, at least towards the top ranks. This has its good sides and its bad sides. The good side of course is that the military has a long tradition of following orders and staying out of politics in our country for the most part, which I think serves us well. I don't want a military whose commanders think that the constitution is just a document and can be ignored whenever it suits their needs.

I've already got a president who does that

The bad side, I think other people have pointed out adequately. But we're making progress, slowly but surely. I mean, until 1973, homosexuality was considered a mental illness by the APA I believe. We're going through a bit of a backlash now, but I think that kids that grew up in my generation are much less likely to be ruled by the revulsion (or in the case of lesbians, that lewd childlike glee which is just as bad). And i think people who are growing up now are a little bit less prejudiced than my generation.

Still, it sucks for you, and for everyone else who has to play pretend. It'll be years before I think you'll see even legal equality, much less ACTUAL equality. I mean, hell, it's been over 40 years since the civil rights movement began, and it's STILL a mess. It makes me at times both glad and somewhat ashamed to be the WASPY straight bastard I am (okay, so the Protestant part is probably a lie. I haven't gone to church since I was 8 or 9).

I hope things work out for you spriteless.

Another thing that bothers me is the people who use the fact that homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness as proof that it actually IS one...

Yeah, people that think like that...Not too smart, really.
See, there's a couple of slight flaws with that line of thinking.

We used to think the sun revolved around the Earth. Does that make it true?

I was raised to believe "If you cannot ask yourself the hard questions about your own beliefs, how can you continue to believe?"
Just thought I'd throw that out. It seemed somewhat appropriate.

I've heard people claim that the civil rights movement bullied the APA into taking it off the books. No joke.

...people are dumb.

And really, really need to subscribe to that school of thought that Drek just mentioned...

That's unbelieveably stupid, Mordy...


And yes, Drek's philosiphy is a good one. I've tried to use something like that me own self, but, and I *am* ashamed to say this, sometimes that ingrained social "programming" for lack of a better term gets the better of me. At times, the kneejerk reaction is what is taught to you en masse. It's sad but true.

So just out of curiousity...

If they ever do discover a gay gene or some such, will you fix your kids (before they're born I'd imagine)?

NO. My kids will be who they will be. I don't think it's right to "fix" what's not broken.

The only way I'd consider genetic mods would be if I found out they had a fatal r debilitating disease.

A gay.... gene? o_0

That doesn't even... It would be phased out by....

*Turns off logic.* Ahhh much better, the pain has stopped.

I meant some thing which causes homosexuality.

If I could bolster their immune system or help them become faster learners? Maybe. But that's about all I'd mess with, genetically. Kids are supposed to be a grab bag.

Besides.. What the hell kind of thinking is that? "Hey, we can fix your kid." "Fix? What's wrong with him/her?" "Well, there's a chance they'll be gay." "....And?" "And... Gay is... bad?" *smack* "Moron."

Isn't it bad? Parents invest alot in children, and then the child essentially removes itself from the breedimg population. From the evolutionary perspective it was alot of wasted effort for the parents.

That isn't to say that gay people are bad or anything. I just meant it doesn't make evolutionary sense, and being so blasé about it, saying 'you get what you get' baffles me. If it could be easily fixed I see no reason not to.

A lot of people make the decision not to breed anyway.

And quite a few gay people DO have kids, through one method or another.

And really, I'm not so full of myself that I think that it would be a tragedy if my genes don't get passed on.

We live in a largely overpopulated world, I think a few of us can take the hit if our kids decide they'd prefer to be with someone of the same sex. Seriously man, you do invest a lot in kids, but not just so they keep GOING. You invest in them because they're your KIDS and you love them, no matter what their choices!

Besides, have you seen how fast stupid people breed? Have one dumb kid and it won't matter.

Exactly. Seriously, we're beyond the point of needing to breed for the sake of species survival... and to the point of needing to STOP breeding like fugging rabbits... for the sake of species survival.

Overpopulation is becoming a bigger issue every ear. Its impact will be felt even stronger as fossil fuels run out. In some ways homosexuality preventing reproduction is a good thing.

In our current society, infant mortality rates are signifigantly lower, infanticide is nearly gone (at least in most countries), sacrifice is no longer practiced (or at least not publicized if it is), and people are living longer.

On a related note heres something "amusing" I heard in my ethics class recently:
A man donated sperm to a lesbian couple in some (European?) country. The lesbians broke up, and one of them sued the man for child support and WON. I don't know the deatails of what paper work he did/ did not fill out, but personally I feel if he "donated" in any fashion other than the good old fashioned way thats just wrong.

Everyone's making a lot of good points. I know that sounds like a terribly general thing to say, but I agree with everything I've read so far.

Mike-- Yes, I know what you mean.... I had to deal with a lot of confusion and self-hate over being bisexual too. I was pretty much over it by seventeen, but from 11-16 was really horrible... I had no guidance on the matter and when I tried to out myself to my family (a few times, now) They all said I didn't know what I was talking about and made fun of me....So now I just don't talk about it. Ever.

Incidentally...
Norm McDonald:"Germans love David Hasseloff!"

That sounds like an urban myth to me.