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 #720 Kingdom Come
Dark Hawk
Posted: Sep 20 2011, 03:12 AM


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Oh my. What force in Videoland could be mighty enough to halt the sovereign?

(You get no points for guessing)


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gopus
Posted: Sep 20 2011, 03:25 AM


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QUOTE (Dark Hawk @ Sep 20 2011, 03:12 AM)
Oh my.  What force in Videoland could be mighty enough to halt the sovereign?

(You get no points for guessing)

I suspect, given that Mario was involved in the war with the Sovereign, and stated that Prince Lyle needs a 1-up mushroom sometime during the war... that Prince Lyle is in the Mushroom Kingdom, and that that is why she stopped. This would make a good amount of sense if the Sovereign is Lana, and Lana wanted to confront her brother.

Or also, if Mario is at all comparable to the character he was in the Super Mario Bros Supershow, he too was from the Real World but brought to Videoland via warp zone, so he may have Omega Energy as well and be more competent about it. Also, another theory, the Sovereign told Roy Koopa to tell Magus to be wary of the Ancient One (because he hides his true purpose), who is most likely Mario. I reason this because Mario precedes the NES. In any case, Mario may be more privy to the nature of Videoland and the Sovereign, so may be able to stall her.

Obviously, whatever the case, she does not succeed in destroying the Mushroom Kingdom.

This post has been edited by gopus on Sep 20 2011, 03:33 AM
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Sir Donald
Posted: Sep 20 2011, 03:44 AM


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On a side note, I'm thinking that the use of S.C.O.P.E would have been like using some Nukes on the Alien Saucers outside of Houston during Independence Day.

On another side note... Proto lying about that item makes you wonder what else he was keeping from Alex... especially here. Makes one wonder if Kevin's state of mind is actually important...


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It's a flimsy pretext, but I'm sure that the N-Team have gotten away with worse.
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Zap Rowsdower
Posted: Sep 20 2011, 04:15 AM


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So THIS is why Mario was so utterly convinced that no matter what the enemy is, no matter what rules it follows, it can be defeated by jumping on its head.

This post has been edited by Zap Rowsdower on Sep 20 2011, 04:16 AM


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aturtledoesbite
Posted: Sep 20 2011, 04:20 AM


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Maybe Mario simply jumped on her head and stopped her? biggrin.gif

On a more serious note, the Character Database's entry on Mario shows that he has the second-highest threat rating in all of Videoland (beaten only by the Sovereign herself). It's possible that, while he may not be stronger than her, he can adequately hold her off.
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Peteman
Posted: Sep 20 2011, 04:28 AM


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QUOTE (gopus @ Sep 19 2011, 10:25 PM)
QUOTE (Dark Hawk @ Sep 20 2011, 03:12 AM)
Oh my.  What force in Videoland could be mighty enough to halt the sovereign?

(You get no points for guessing)


Or also, if Mario is at all comparable to the character he was in the Super Mario Bros Supershow, he too was from the Real World but brought to Videoland via warp zone, so he may have Omega Energy as well and be more competent about it. Also, another theory, the Sovereign told Roy Koopa to tell Magus to be wary of the Ancient One (because he hides his true purpose), who is most likely Mario. I reason this because Mario precedes the NES. In any case, Mario may be more privy to the nature of Videoland and the Sovereign, so may be able to stall her.

Obviously, whatever the case, she does not succeed in destroying the Mushroom Kingdom.

I think it's that while Mario is indeed a Sprite, the influence from shows like Super Mario's Super Show and his enormous career might have infused Mario with huge amounts of Alpha Energy. He is best able to resist the Sovereign because Alex believes he is best able to resist the Sovereign (gods might have power, but Mario... has STAR POWER!!)
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jaimehlers
Posted: Sep 20 2011, 04:54 AM


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Don't put too much faith in that. The Sovereign exceeds the limits of the threat rating system. I don't think the Sovereign would even slow down if it were just a matter of comparing threat ratings.

I think it's Mario's attitude. I have a sneaking suspicion that he might be immune to the Sovereign's power, like Cecil is (or at least incredibly resistant even if he isn't immune). In a way, the Sovereign doesn't actually defeat her enemies, she undermines them and causes them to defeat themselves by giving up. I mean, that's how Tetris went; the Sovereign influenced Mrs. Squaresley to unmake that world. And Crystalis, the only other world we've seen destroyed on-screen, the heroes basically surrendered without even trying. In other words, I don't think she kills the worlds; she makes the worlds want to kill themselves.

So if Mario can resist the power of Sorrow, then the Sovereign would have to either bypass his world or stop there until she could destroy him (probably with Touched minions).


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ShadowWarriorLuke
Posted: Sep 20 2011, 04:55 AM


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user posted image

Regarding the cartoons, the Mario 3 one established that the Mushroom Kingdom was connected to the real world. It's possible the Sovereign may be trying to go there, which is possibly why she was headed for the palace and its ultimate warp zone (the Palace of Power was the gateway to that, right?) but suddenly picked up on the warps in the Mushroom Kingdom. Of course, with Mario there she's still got her work cut out to even get close to them.


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HeroicJay
Posted: Sep 20 2011, 06:45 AM


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Hm... I'm left wondering if the Sovereign's problem with the Mushroom Kingdom is that it's just too darned HAPPY for her to Sorrow out of existence. But that's just a musing thought from me. We'll see when we see.

I wonder if it's notable that the very first SNES game - potentially the first one privy to the Great Change, by CSNES standards - was Super Mario World. (Well, okay, there was a second... Pilotwings? I think? But does anyone even care about that next to Mario?)
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Ou des
Posted: Sep 20 2011, 06:47 AM


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It occurs to me that the very first game to come out for the SNES was Super Mario World.

Is that significant? All I know is that my gut says maybe.

Edit: Egads I've been baroned. How long has it been since that happened...

This post has been edited by Ou des on Sep 20 2011, 06:48 AM


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HeroicJay
Posted: Sep 20 2011, 06:51 AM


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Sorry. tongue.gif
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Alan Bates
Posted: Sep 20 2011, 07:23 AM


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QUOTE (aturtledoesbite @ Sep 20 2011, 12:20 AM)
Maybe Mario simply jumped on her head and stopped her? biggrin.gif

On a more serious note, the Character Database's entry on Mario shows that he has the second-highest threat rating in all of Videoland (beaten only by the Sovereign herself).

And that's just Mario by himself.

Now Mario, Luigi, Toad, King Koopa, and Princess Toadstool all together...


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Sir Donald
Posted: Sep 20 2011, 09:00 AM


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QUOTE (Peteman @ Sep 20 2011, 12:28 AM)
I think it's that while Mario is indeed a Sprite, the influence from shows like Super Mario's Super Show and his enormous career might have infused Mario with huge amounts of Alpha Energy. He is best able to resist the Sovereign because Alex believes he is best able to resist the Sovereign (gods might have power, but Mario... has STAR POWER!!)

That's not what I'd have in mind when I would consider Mario's "Star Power"...


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It's a flimsy pretext, but I'm sure that the N-Team have gotten away with worse.
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Peteman
Posted: Sep 20 2011, 12:15 PM


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QUOTE (Sir Donald @ Sep 20 2011, 04:00 AM)
That's not what I'd have in mind when I would consider Mario's "Star Power"...

He can have both.
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Calemyr
Posted: Sep 20 2011, 02:56 PM


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I'd think Mario and Bowser are just this side of the ultimate weapons against a being like the Sovereign. Mario doesn't believe in defeat, doesn't believe anything can't be solved with a boot to the cranium, and never loses. Bowser is often said to be very much like Skeletor - it doesn't matter how many times his face is rubbed in lava, he ALWAYS believes the next plan cannot fail. Although usually on opposite sides of a conflict, these two are paragons of hope, the only thing capable of even slightly hindering her. They're similar to Green Megaman, the Masamune(s), and Cecil.

I mean, why do you think Megs was so pissed off that he couldn't go Green when his back was to the wall? Do you think it was because tactical brilliance was less of an advantage than ridiculously augmented physical strength? No, it was because Green had a hope so firmly anchored that you could bounce planets off of it, and that's something the Sovereign has trouble with. Both Mario and Bowser are like that as well, and I think this will be the first time anyone's realized there's something that can fight her.
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TheRealKrazyCarl
Posted: Sep 20 2011, 03:22 PM


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QUOTE (ShadowWarriorLuke @ Sep 20 2011, 12:55 AM)
user posted image

Regarding the cartoons, the Mario 3 one established that the Mushroom Kingdom was connected to the real world. It's possible the Sovereign may be trying to go there, which is possibly why she was headed for the palace and its ultimate warp zone (the Palace of Power was the gateway to that, right?) but suddenly picked up on the warps in the Mushroom Kingdom. Of course, with Mario there she's still got her work cut out to even get close to them.

I don't hold much stock in that theory. Remember Johnny Arcade from the Acclaim Power-Team? He too was technically from a "real world", but it was described as a "false-positive" world if I remember correctly, a manifestation of Videoland as we've seen in the Captain N cartoon (in the Warp Zone to Oblivion, for example). I kind of think Mario's "real world" is another false positive.

Edit: Supporting this theory, many times in the Super Mario show(s), sprites have traveled to this "real world", but CSNES cannon has established that it's (currently) impossible for sprites to do so.

This post has been edited by TheRealKrazyCarl on Sep 20 2011, 03:23 PM


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Zap Rowsdower
Posted: Sep 20 2011, 04:42 PM


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Mario Bros., not Super but just Mario Bros., ostensibly took place in the sewers of New York City, and Donkey Kong ostensibly took place in a real world construction site. That's the "real" world Mario is from- a gameworld, still composed of sprites and pixels and used as the backdrop of a game, but with a society duplicating our own.

Both Donkey Kong and Mario Bros. had ports on the NES.


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LuppyLuptonium
Posted: Sep 20 2011, 05:15 PM


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QUOTE (Alan Bates @ Sep 20 2011, 03:23 AM)
QUOTE (aturtledoesbite @ Sep 20 2011, 12:20 AM)
Maybe Mario simply jumped on her head and stopped her? biggrin.gif

On a more serious note, the Character Database's entry on Mario shows that he has the second-highest threat rating in all of Videoland (beaten only by the Sovereign herself).

And that's just Mario by himself.

Now Mario, Luigi, Toad, King Koopa, and Princess Toadstool all together...

That's a Tennis match.


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Alger
Posted: Sep 20 2011, 06:52 PM


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Oh my god i just want the next one, can hardly formulate crazy theories, BUT
I think it's less that it's the "FIRST" SNES game and just the fact that it is in fact a snes game.

SNES worlds will survive the great change, NES ones will not, makes sense to me.
Remember, somehow the sovereign is representative of the force that ends the 8bit era.
What stops her, plotwise is less important, Videoland rules could allow her to be stopped simply because it makes sense.

Lyle and mario doing some shit sounds plausible as the actual "shit that goes down" so to speak though.
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HeroicJay
Posted: Sep 20 2011, 06:56 PM


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QUOTE (Alger @ Sep 20 2011, 11:52 AM)
Oh my god i just want the next one, can hardly formulate crazy theories, BUT
I think it's less that it's the "FIRST" SNES game and just the fact that it is in fact a snes game.

SNES worlds will survive the great change, NES ones will not, makes sense to me.
Remember, somehow the sovereign is representative of the force that ends the 8bit era.
What stops her, plotwise is less important, Videoland rules could allow her to be stopped simply because it makes sense.

Lyle and mario doing some shit sounds plausible as the actual "shit that goes down" so to speak though.

Uh, we already know the Mushroom Kingdom is going to survive the Great Change, and we already suspect that the worlds to be destroyed in the Change will be the ones that never made it to the SNES. The reason it's significant that Super Mario World was the first SNES game is that it corresponds to it being the first to undergo the Great Change - and given that the Sovereign is currently IN THAT WORLD...
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