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 #760 X-Rated Romance, Awwww riii-wait, what?
enlong
Posted: Feb 20 2012, 02:22 PM


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If Wrexsoul is a factor, it can't be good, what's happening here.

I mean, after all, Wrexsoul is already a mass of pure sorrow (and anger and hatred, but it was mainly sorrow that was used to torment Cyan)
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Tonberry2k
Posted: Feb 20 2012, 08:55 PM


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Yeah, Wrexsoul can't have possession of Cyan, mostly because Cyan doesn't even take part in that battle.

The way that fight works, the remaining 3 party members enter against Wrexsoul and is SoulSavers. The way the battle is SUPPOSED to be won, is by attacking (And KO'ing) your own teammates one by one until Wrexsoul reveals himself.
But I've never met anyone who does that. Wrexsoul possesses someone, X-Zone is cast, sucking in the SoulSavers, and the battle ends because there are no targets in the enemy party. I'm not sure if this has any bearing on Captain SNES, but it's a very neat wrinkle that could be used at some point.

I never put together the fact that Wrexsoul IS pure sorrow.


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Sam: Norm you look down, what's wrong?
Norm: New boss chewed me out. Said I "Lack enthusiasm".
Cliff: Well, is that true?
Norm: I, uh I dunno. Maybe. Who cares?
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jaimehlers
Posted: Feb 20 2012, 09:32 PM


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I legitimately killed Wrexsoul in FF6. I also never used Vanish/Doom, and I never saw the Sketch glitch.


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aturtledoesbite
Posted: Feb 20 2012, 09:45 PM


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QUOTE (jaimehlers @ Feb 20 2012, 03:32 PM)
I legitimately killed Wrexsoul in FF6. I also never used Vanish/Doom, and I never saw the Sketch glitch.

In other words, you didn't actually play FFVI and you're just saying that to sound cool. tongue.gif

More seriously, you didn't play the game the way it was meant to be played, so your playthrough doesn't actually count. biggrin.gif
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Tonberry2k
Posted: Feb 20 2012, 10:37 PM


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I exploited all the glitches, but I've played the game several times legitimately as well. tongue.gif

Sketch glitch is fun to mess with.


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user posted image

Sam: Norm you look down, what's wrong?
Norm: New boss chewed me out. Said I "Lack enthusiasm".
Cliff: Well, is that true?
Norm: I, uh I dunno. Maybe. Who cares?
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jaimehlers
Posted: Feb 20 2012, 11:49 PM


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QUOTE (aturtledoesbite @ Feb 20 2012, 04:45 PM)
QUOTE (jaimehlers @ Feb 20 2012, 03:32 PM)
I legitimately killed Wrexsoul in FF6.  I also never used Vanish/Doom, and I never saw the Sketch glitch.

In other words, you didn't actually play FFVI and you're just saying that to sound cool. tongue.gif

More seriously, you didn't play the game the way it was meant to be played, so your playthrough doesn't actually count. biggrin.gif

No, I just didn't play the game on EZ-mode. tongue.gif

I did, however, cheat nonstop with the Lone Wolf Adventure books. Given that you could die trying to bust down a rusted door in the very first book (it was treated as combat), and there were any number of random-number picks where rolling too low was an instant game over, plus various other situations where you could end up in a no-escape instant game over because you missed the one critical item to pass the encounter and didn't know to have the one critical skill that might let you bypass it if you happened to be lucky enough...well, I don't think anyone actually completed the book series legitimately (as in, if you die, you restart from scratch).

What does this have to do with Videoland? Nothing, but it's an amusing tangent.


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Sir Donald
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 04:21 AM


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QUOTE (Gaius @ Feb 20 2012, 02:05 AM)
It could be a matter of love overpowering Sorrow, but things might be... a little more complicated.

Dr. Wily: "[T]he Sovereign of Sorrow corrupts and distorts the reasoning and perceptions of those she Touches, correct?"

Whatever the Sovereign's trying to achieve for the world of FF VI, it's possible that Celes doing what she just did serves that end.

To wanton speculation that assumes this premise!
We know Edgar and Sabin survive, so Locke might have been just fine, sans X-Zone. If this is a boon for the Sovereign, she might not want him influencing FF VI events, might want him wherever he winds up, and/or ... might want Celes to slip even further into Sorrow upon realizing how needlessly she just X-Zoned away her beloved. It wouldn't even be that different from Spoony's original 'kill Crono, turn Marle' plan, before the cat interfered.

I'd agree that, if it is the Sovereign's will to get Locke out of the picture, I would agree to only those first two; as a former military general, Celes knows the meaning of "I did what I had to do."

Though I wouldn't compare her so much to the Drab Lord as to Rosa

QUOTE (Spoony @ paraphrased)
What kind of a General are you, Celes? To let the one you love linger on in pain?  To endanger innocent lives because you're too much of a coward to act?  Everything bad that will befall us will be on your head!


Or were you talking from the PoV of the Sovereign? (But what would the Sovereign have to actually gain by that plan? After all, the assumption that Kain would have been victorious was merely that: an assumption. One which I think is easily challenged.

Re: Wrexsoul: We are currently debating in a vacuum. For all we know, Wrexsoul isn't involved.

Yeah. And Evil Otto can be destroyed.

It's much more likely that the unlocking of Wrexsoul is the Sovereign's true goal in the FF6 world; that world's subjugation is merely icing.

So here is what we know: Wrexsoul is not in Cyan.

Here is what we are presuming: Alex did not defeat Wrexsoul the "official" way, but used the "X-Zone his minions" trick. Therefore, Wrexsoul is still hidden within one of the party members.

There are multiple possibilities:

1. Wrexsoul was in Shadow: Even presuming he's alive, he's not on the FF6 world, and was removed from there by plot. I think that this possibility can be safely discounted.

2. Wrexsoul is in Gau AND Gau was Zapped along with Locke (That outline is still in the first panel of comic #755): Simple: Gau will be a redshirt to make way for Locke to fight Wrexsoul when they run into his minions. Could lead to scenario 3 below or could remove Wrexsoul as a factor (unlikely, unless it results in someone else being corrupted.)

3. Wrexsoul is in Locke:
3a. He's alone: It'll greatly depend on whether he meets those two minions or not. And Celes' mental state will depend on whether she was there at the battle; and even then she may not know WS was in Locke
3b. Gau is with him: Likely as first 3a then 2 above.

4. Wrexsoul is in another party member: Celes will be directed to kill this person at the earliest plausible opportunity, then revive that person once Wrexsoul has been released and sent off on orders.

5. Wrexsoul is in Celes: She may cast ReRaise on herself then kill herself at the first plausible opportunity.

As for possibilities 4 & 5: Since all the action is on Nexus and FF4,then what's the point of keeping Wrexsoul in FF6?

So, if Wrexsoul is to be a factor, then he's in Locke. As to whether Celes knows this or not is irrelevant. All that is relevant is that the Sovereign knows...


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It's a flimsy pretext, but I'm sure that the N-Team have gotten away with worse.
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aturtledoesbite
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 04:37 AM


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QUOTE (Sir Donald @ Feb 20 2012, 10:21 PM)
Yeah. And Evil Otto can be destroyed.

I'm sorry, I fail to realize how the linked comic relates to the statement.
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Sir Donald
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 05:13 AM


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My bad.

The statement is one of those equivalents to "and Pigs Fly" though pigs may fly in Videoland. I needed something more definite.

The comic linked to is the evidence behind my "Yeah, doubt it." statement. If the Sovereign could corrupt Milon into a full-fledged Lieutenant, why not Wrexsoul.


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It's a flimsy pretext, but I'm sure that the N-Team have gotten away with worse.
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enlong
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 05:30 AM


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I doubt that Wrexsoul is inside Gau, because that would require Alex to take Gau to an important, very difficult dungeon.
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MFD
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 02:04 PM


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Take the Wrexsoul talk to it's own thread. This tangent has been monopolizing the last several discussion threads, and it's speculation without evidence.

Also, Turtle, please stop antagonizing people who don't hax their way through the game.


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"The eagles who soar through the sky are at rest And the creatures who crawl, run, and creep. I know you're not thirsty. That's bullshit. Stop lying. Lie the fuck down, my darling, and sleep.
- Go the Fuck to Sleep

"Yeah, well. We're building a bomb. You do the opposite of what the warning labels say."
- Burn Notice: The Fall of Sam Axe
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jaimehlers
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 11:00 PM


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For what it's worth, there's no reason that X-Zone couldn't lead to some non-Final Fantasy world, like Chrono Trigger. It's quite easy to draw the connection between Wedge and Biggs who get X-Zoned at the beginning of FF6 (it shares the same graphical effect, at any rate), and the Wedge and Biggs who are part of that game in Chrono Trigger, and it's hardly impossible that Alex couldn't have thought that. He's certainly come up with more unusual connections, like Dr. Wright from SimCity and Dr. Wright from Mega Man 2.

Point being, we shouldn't assume anything about what happens when someone or something is X-Zoned. My personal thought is that Locke will either find himself in Nexus or FF4. Though it would be highly amusing if he popped out of a warp zone in the Mushroom Kingdom.


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Zap Rowsdower
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 11:12 PM


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QUOTE (jaimehlers @ Feb 21 2012, 07:00 PM)
Point being, we shouldn't assume anything about what happens when someone or something is X-Zoned.  My personal thought is that Locke will either find himself in Nexus or FF4.  Though it would be highly amusing if he popped out of a warp zone in the Mushroom Kingdom.

If the latter, it will likely turn out that Mario's been taking care of all the monsters they've X-Zone'd, by jumping on their heads.

This post has been edited by Zap Rowsdower on Feb 21 2012, 11:12 PM


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aturtledoesbite
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 11:34 PM


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While those connections can be drawn, it's far more likely that, considering Gilgamesh gets X-Zone'd to the Void in FFV, Alex assumes X-Zone brings its targets to the Void. We've seen Krile in a previous comic, so the odds are high that Alex has played FFV.

The question I'm wondering is if those are the same Void, or if FFV and FFVI have two different Voids. If they're the same, we might see Omega Weapon, Shinryu, or even Gilgamesh. If not, there's no telling where Locke is.
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jaimehlers
Posted: Feb 22 2012, 12:00 AM


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QUOTE (aturtledoesbite @ Feb 21 2012, 06:34 PM)
While those connections can be drawn, it's far more likely that, considering Gilgamesh gets X-Zone'd to the Void in FFV, Alex assumes X-Zone brings its targets to the Void. We've seen Krile in a previous comic, so the odds are high that Alex has played FFV.

No, it isn't "far more likely". I admit it's a possibility (as are the ones I suggested), but that by no means speaks to its probability.

QUOTE (aturtledoesbite)
The question I'm wondering is if those are the same Void, or if FFV and FFVI have two different Voids. If they're the same, we might see Omega Weapon, Shinryu, or even Gilgamesh. If not, there's no telling where Locke is.

I think it's most likely that Locke will go to one of the places already mentioned (one of the other FF worlds, Chrono Trigger, Nexus, the Mushroom Kingdom, or the Void). That's a lot different than "no telling where he is". It's possible he's somewhere else, but given the nature of Videoland in this comic, I find that rather unlikely, unless that "somewhere else" is a place that matters.


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Kawaresksenjajok
Posted: Feb 22 2012, 12:30 AM


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Whatever happened to Locke, I think we won't find out for a while. And I'm still set on Desert of Shattered Dreams. Really, where else have we seen anything from FF6?

Also, I don't know if this has been brought up, but I think Terra will be the only strong opposing force to stand against the purple glow. I see her red-colored text being kind of like how Rock repressed his green form.
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aturtledoesbite
Posted: Feb 22 2012, 01:35 AM


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QUOTE (jaimehlers @ Feb 21 2012, 06:00 PM)
No, it isn't "far more likely".  I admit it's a possibility (as are the ones I suggested), but that by no means speaks to its probability.

Allow me to explain my point of view through an example. Alex plays Final Fantasy V. Alex sees Gilgamesh sucked up by a spell named "X-Zone". Alex later finds Gilgamesh in the Void. Alex then plays Final Fantasy VI. Alex finds a spell named "X-Zone".

Now, which scenario seems more likely? Alex thinking "Hmm, I bet that sends the monsters to Chronos/the Mushroom Kingdom/Videoland." or Alex thinking "Hmm, I bet that sends the monsters to the Void, like Gilgamesh was."? Remember that, while Videoland itself is not necessarily subject to Occam's Razor, Alex's conception of it is.

QUOTE (jaimehlers @ Feb 21 2012, 06:00PM)
I think it's most likely that Locke will go to one of the places already mentioned (one of the other FF worlds, Chrono Trigger, Nexus, the Mushroom Kingdom, or the Void).  That's a lot different than "no telling where he is".  It's possible he's somewhere else, but given the nature of Videoland in this comic, I find that rather unlikely, unless that "somewhere else" is a place that matters.


There seems to be a misunderstanding here. As far as I know, the definition of "no telling where [noun/pronoun] is" simply means that I cannot accurately give an answer. There could be two possible outcomes or two million. And in this case, I agree with you. If the FFV Void and FFVI Void are not the same, Locke may very well end up in one of the places you've listed. However, I cannot accurately say where he will end up.


Disclaimer: If this post comes off as being rude in any way, I apologize. It was not intentional.
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jaimehlers
Posted: Feb 22 2012, 03:06 AM


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QUOTE (aturtledoesbite @ Feb 21 2012, 08:35 PM)
Allow me to explain my point of view through an example. Alex plays Final Fantasy V. Alex sees Gilgamesh sucked up by a spell named "X-Zone". Alex later finds Gilgamesh in the Void. Alex then plays Final Fantasy VI. Alex finds a spell named "X-Zone".

Now, which scenario seems more likely? Alex thinking "Hmm, I bet that sends the monsters to Chronos/the Mushroom Kingdom/Videoland." or Alex thinking "Hmm, I bet that sends the monsters to the Void, like Gilgamesh was."? Remember that, while Videoland itself is not necessarily subject to Occam's Razor, Alex's conception of it is.

Your example assumes Alex played them in numerical order. This is a bad assumption, because Final Fantasy 5 was not officially released in the USA until the PSX era. Yes, he probably played it on emulator, but the fan-translation was not completed until 1998, two years after Chrono Trigger was released in the USA. In other words, he would almost certainly played them in the order of FF6, Chrono Trigger, FF5.

And since the two soldiers with Terra at the beginning of FF6 got X-Zoned (it may or may not have been called that, but the effect was practically the same) by Tritoch, and two soldiers with the same names showed up as extras in a Chrono Trigger mini-game, Alex would probably have noticed this and could have made the reasonable assumption that X-Zone might well have operated like a warp zone between games which pulls someone from one game world to another. As in, the way that warp zones in Videoland work.

It's certainly possible that he made the connection you're talking about after the fact, and if he had played the games in their official order, I'd be more likely to agree. But he probably didn't play them in that order, and thus all bets are off as to what he most likely thinks. I mean, this isn't something he reasonably considers, it's his subconscious.

QUOTE (aturtledoesbite)
There seems to be a misunderstanding here. As far as I know, the definition of "no telling where [noun/pronoun] is" simply means that I cannot accurately give an answer. There could be two possible outcomes or two million. And in this case, I agree with you. If the FFV Void and FFVI Void are not the same, Locke may very well end up in one of the places you've listed. However, I cannot accurately say where he will end up.

Disclaimer: If this post comes off as being rude in any way, I apologize. It was not intentional.

I listed the places I considered reasonable (the Desert is also reasonable and I forgot about that). It's possible Locke might well end up somewhere else entirely, because we don't know how Alex assumed X-Zone to work.


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aturtledoesbite
Posted: Feb 22 2012, 03:34 AM


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I only have one problem with that. Biggs and Wedge didn't get sucked into a hole in the pixels of reality. They just simply poofed. Whether or not Alex would see that as X-Zone is unknown. There was no "title" for what happened to them, like there would be if a spell was cast. There's no way of knowing how Alex saw it, but it seemed to me that they just disintegrated from the Esper's raw power. Considering this is a game where dancing = sex, there are any number of possibilities for what happened to those two.

But other than that, I can understand the rest of it. Though, allow me to show my fanboy a little: Chrono Trigger was released in '95, three years before FFV's translation. Not two.
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MFD
Posted: Feb 22 2012, 03:35 AM


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I'd see more logic in the Desert and Nexus as, well, the space between the worlds...


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"The eagles who soar through the sky are at rest And the creatures who crawl, run, and creep. I know you're not thirsty. That's bullshit. Stop lying. Lie the fuck down, my darling, and sleep.
- Go the Fuck to Sleep

"Yeah, well. We're building a bomb. You do the opposite of what the warning labels say."
- Burn Notice: The Fall of Sam Axe
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