Church and State; Athiesm, Split from the Pope thread

SPLIT FROM HERE
-GJ

Eh...I dunno about that, Spry... Does separation of church and state really mean they can't honor somebody because they happen to be part of the clergy? The guy's done a lot of good, for a lot of people. If you ask me, separation of church and state is all about being allowed to do something honoring him, not forbidding people to show him what respect they will... Not only do I think they should be permitted to do it, but I'd hope they'd do the same exact thing for someone of any religion who did the kinds of things he did.

EXACTLY why is it that so often people get this wrong, and use this as a weapon against the very thing it was meant to protect?

not being allowed to say the pledge of allegiance just because it has the word "god" in it, for example.

nobody ever said that people have to believe that there is a god, just that the US is a goods country and that, assuming there is a god, he, or as the case may be, she, approves of some of the ideals that went into the founding of the country.

and yet atheists deliberately misunderstand this just so that they can stir up problems and point out how atheist they are

I do ask that you try not to jump to conclusions like that so easily.

okay, most atheists just live normal lives and are like "I believe this, but you believe whatever", but the ones that get on the news are the crazies to which I reffered. This is because the news casters think that atheists running around causing trouble is much more interesting than atheists sitting in the back of the room saying the pledge of alegiance with everyone else and then just quietly skipping "god"

Atheist is a nice term - Helps you know who you're talking to. Atheists and agnostics all tend to get lumped together as atheists, but the vast majority of the non-blindly-rabid kind call themselves agnostics instead...Generally, anytime someone proudly announces that they're an atheist, I try to quietly change the subject to something that doesn't involve religion.

Well, yeah, Newb, but on the other hand ALL belief systems, religous, socal, political, have their crazies... they get press becasue they are indeed far more interesting....

Erm...

Yeah, I'm an atheist...

Generalisations make puppies cry... *sniffle*

okay, okay, I'm wrong for making a generalization.

however, people who go on with their lives and do their own thing I have no problem with. it is those people who will say that they are atheist shortly after telling you their name who tend to cause problems.

This post has been edited by Newb on Apr 3 2005, 05:06 AM

I didn't know you were an athiest, Jo....


Anyway, it's sad that a few nutjobs can color the perception of an entire group of people...

I said most, not all. Besides, we know you're a member of the Cult of Ridley.

EDIT: Um, despite that you weren't talking to me, for just-in-case ass-covering purposes, my statement stands if I miss a word in the future.

This post has been edited by Big McStrongmuscle on Apr 3 2005, 05:20 AM

I thought she worshipped Bowser?

....I'm polytheistic.

I know you didn't say all, Big. It's still kinda disconcerting seeing people say that most people like you are jackasses... yeah, I might have overreacted a bit, sorry. I'm a bit on edge now...

No problem...I understand completely. All I meant was that more of the uninformed masses tend to call themselves atheists. Considering that the difference between an atheist and an agnostic is that an atheist believes there is no God as firmly as a religious fella believes there is one, while an agnostic admits that there's no proof either way, the latter label just tends to attract most of the less zealous ones. I mainly avoid the subject cause I get sick of being told by avowed atheists that I'm an idiot for believing something I can't observe...

I think I probably should shut up now, but eh, I'll say it anyway.

I don't have the slightest problem with anyone having faith. The only time I'll ever call someone an idiot is if they try to pass faith off as fact.

Alright! Now to wait and see just how far I stuck my foot up my mouth...

Actually Jo, I agree wholeheartedly....

IMHO, SoCaS only applies to laws that do things like "Wearing turbans is illegal," or "Christanity is the one true religon, and if you arn't chiristain, you will be shot," or something like that. Not the pledge of allegiance, which you never have to say anyway, God being on the money, or the President saying the pope was a good person. If someone else did some of the shit the pope did, and wasn't the pope, you'd be happy he said a few words.

Then again, I really liked that pope, so the last sentence might be a bit biased.

EDIT: Wow, Jo that was a nice comment.

This post has been edited by Robotech Master on Apr 3 2005, 05:34 AM

Really, Jo, I don't think that's foot-in-mouth at all. I'm inclined to agree with you. Or at least, I don't think you can shove faith down somebody's unwilling throat. What somebody chooses to believe is their own damn business.

And yeah, RTM. That's how it'd work in an ideal world. (Note: I'm NOT bringing original intent into this...It certainly wasn't. That line was in there to keep out the Catholics and the European monarchs, who were supposed to be divinely appointed. Honestly, the founding fathers were kinda bastards)

GJ, I find myself agreeing with someone who is putting forth my own opinions.

slightly altered, but still, uncanny.

I was doing ideal world also. Really though, some of these things are getting out of hand, and it's the connotation that counts really.

Like the so help me god line in the inguration speech, (That acctualy isn't in the acctual speech, but everyones added it.)if someone went around saying that a president-elect doing that is constitutionly illegal, I would probably beat his ass for being a goddamned whiny idiot. Hate to say it, but really, some of the stuff that's been put in court...

EDIT: To make the connotation line more acclipable to the rest of what I typed, the above line is basicly stating that the president wants to make sure he does his best, or at least that's how I interpreted it. If it MIGHT help, why the hell not?

This post has been edited by Robotech Master on Apr 3 2005, 05:49 AM

Yeah, Newb, that's the wonderful thing about the Internet. Once you start talking to other people, you start realizing that a hell of a lot of them are similar to you in a lot of ways...