Taskforce Grugnir - Rollcall, The rollcall thread for the navy rp

Er, WW1-era ships versus the IJN's "modern" standards? Spraque's Taffy 3 ships were practically brand new in comparison to Hart's!

Er, WW1-era ships versus the IJN's "modern" standards? Spraque's Taffy 3 ships were practically brand new in comparison to Hart's!

So, the perfect representation of the Imperial Navy going up against the technologically superior Archenemy, no?

Now, wait, wait, wait. Since when is Chaos technologically superior to the Imperium? Chaos ships ARE Imperial ships!

I get the feeling what we have here is little more than a debate of principles between two commanders on how they use their resources.
Personally, I use my escorts for flank attacks and hunting other escorts, a role which cobras are surprisingly good at. It must be the fact that all my escorts are cobras in BFG that makes me a bit reluctant to put any in the line of fire.

Good point, BeRzErKeR. In some cases the ships would be less technologically advanced, seeing as most modern Imperial ships are actually from technological progression and not "because we lost the blueprints to the last one". 10000 years is a long time not to update your spaceships.

Er, WW1-era ships versus the IJN's "modern" standards? Spraque's Taffy 3 ships were practically brand new in comparison to Hart's!

So, the perfect representation of the Imperial Navy going up against the technologically superior Archenemy, no?

What? You're saying the IJN's modern fleet versus Hart's WW1-era fleet is analogous to the ImpNav versus the "technologically superior" Chaos fleet? Or are you saying the IJN's late-war fleet versus Sprague's Taffy 3 (technologically superior, but so vastly outgunned and outmassed that it ain't even funny) is analogous to ImpNav versus the Chaos fleet?

The former, not the latter. Imperial technology is and has been decaying for thousands of years, since the Adeptus Mechanicus refuses to innovate or reverse engineer the technology available to them.

Correct, essentially. Chaos ships are old/ancient Imperial ships, dating back to the Great Crusade in some cases. Keeping in mind that technology that is rare or non-existent in M41 was common (common enough to be issued to the equivalent of the Imperial Guard, in many cases) in the Great Crusade, you could make a successful argument for them being technologically superior based on just that.

Then add the fact that the Adeptus Mechanicus is and has been described as a dogmatic organization, unwilling to attempt innovation and reactionary enough to crush any attempts to do so in their ranks, while their most knowledgeable magos' age and slowly grow more and more senile and paranoid. All technology must come from the STC templates, or it is considered heretical.

Just in BFG, it's clearly stated that the Imperium no longer knows how to construct the engines or lances that are common issue on the older Chaos ships.

So, no. Imperial ships are not the result of 10000 years of technological progression. They're the result of ten thousand years of technological stagnation and decay. Which means, yes, Chaos ships (maybe, maybe I say(!) not the escorts, even though some out range imperial ships and are all much faster) are technologically superior.

The former, not the latter. Imperial technology is and has been decaying for thousands of years, since the Adeptus Mechanicus refuses to innovate or reverse engineer the technology available to them.

Correct, essentially. Chaos ships are old/ancient Imperial ships, dating back to the Great Crusade in some cases. Keeping in mind that technology that is rare or non-existent in M41 was common (common enough to be issued to the equivalent of the Imperial Guard, in many cases) in the Great Crusade, you could make a successful argument for them being technologically superior based on just that.

Then add the fact that the Adeptus Mechanicus is and has been described as a dogmatic organization, unwilling to attempt innovation and reactionary enough to crush any attempts to do so in their ranks, while their most knowledgeable magos' age and slowly grow more and more senile and paranoid. All technology must come from the STC templates, or it is considered heretical.

Just in BFG, it's clearly stated that the Imperium no longer knows how to construct the engines or lances that are common issue on the older Chaos ships.

So, no. Imperial ships are not the result of 10000 years of technological progression. They're the result of ten thousand years of technological stagnation and decay. Which means, yes, Chaos ships (maybe, maybe I say(!) not the escorts, even though some out range imperial ships and are all much faster) are technologically superior.

Some of those "advanced" ships, however, were destroyed, such as the sole ship deployed with the Scartix Coil.

The former, not the latter. Imperial technology is and has been decaying for thousands of years, since the Adeptus Mechanicus refuses to innovate or reverse engineer the technology available to them.

Correct, essentially. Chaos ships are old/ancient Imperial ships, dating back to the Great Crusade in some cases. Keeping in mind that technology that is rare or non-existent in M41 was common (common enough to be issued to the equivalent of the Imperial Guard, in many cases) in the Great Crusade, you could make a successful argument for them being technologically superior based on just that.

Then add the fact that the Adeptus Mechanicus is and has been described as a dogmatic organization, unwilling to attempt innovation and reactionary enough to crush any attempts to do so in their ranks, while their most knowledgeable magos' age and slowly grow more and more senile and paranoid. All technology must come from the STC templates, or it is considered heretical.

Just in BFG, it's clearly stated that the Imperium no longer knows how to construct the engines or lances that are common issue on the older Chaos ships.

So, no. Imperial ships are not the result of 10000 years of technological progression. They're the result of ten thousand years of technological stagnation and decay. Which means, yes, Chaos ships (maybe, maybe I say(!) not the escorts, even though some out range imperial ships and are all much faster) are technologically superior.

Some of those "advanced" ships, however, were destroyed, such as the sole ship deployed with the Scartix Coil.

Uh...what? Chaos stole that design. And then started manufacturing it. Where do you think the Scartix Coil in every Slaughter-class comes from?

Although, yes, the only IMPERIAL ship with a Scartix Coil was lost. It declared for Chaos, blew the hell out of the system that had built it, and left.

You seem to be mistaken, brother-librarian. There are no more Slaughter-class cruisers. There are no more Scartix coils; those were obviously heretical designs in the first place, thus the vessel(s) turning traitor.

Obviously.

The =I= now return you to the discussion in progress.

Actually, the fluff (at least what I've read) is very much mixed on the AdMech. From what I can tell, they are very mystical about technology and technical knowledge, but at the same time are always seeking more of it. The Imperials have made a number of advances/rediscoveries since the time of the Great Crusade, certainly.

Could you point out a few? The only ones that spring immediately to mind are all recovered STC Archaeotech.

But yes, the Adeptus DOES constantly send out their Explorator fleets to find just that, and there have been some technological rediscoveries. Just...not many.

Why dont you all just stop your fracking argument and stop being children. Like c'mon, Its a role play, and because of the nature of the subject it is all subjective. Let Emperors Penguin do it the way he bloody well wants to and stop trying to impress upon him Your ideas. That is a gorram stagnation of creativity and it is technically against his rights so stop arguing over useless things. or do it in your own blimey topic.

Heh heh, well said Jacob. Part of me is actually quite gratified that my lil' ol' roleplay sparked such a debate.

You're right. Clearly a polite debate over relevant facts is "stagnation of creativity", which I take to mean "suppressing ideas" in lieu of understandable English. I will, of course, immediately concede all points of my argument categorically to you, your logic and flawless presentation of compelling evidence have totally won me over.

I am, however, unclear on one small point. Could you show me, if you will, where I suggested that my way was somehow "better" or the only "right" way? Please, enlighten me with your masterful wit, your effulgent intellect, your absolute command of word and sentence, your heartfelt compassion and good will, your...

Yeah, I don't think you're buying it anymore. Go throw a tantrum somewhere else, Jacob. The wall over there might give a damn. Unless you're prepared to base your allegations in fact, don't make them.

"Stagnation of creativity". *snort*

Sorry Akritedes, but I agree with Jacob. It's all fine having this debate but could you kindly get out of my thread and do it someplace else where you can do it privately. This is a rollcall thread, not a pointless debate thread.