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 The character thread, Mark 1.
Ragormha
Posted: May 1 2008, 10:19 PM


GHM of FEP and Story Artisan


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Alright so I don't expect this to get a whole lot of use for a few days, but once Sui's ideas are up the machine can get to work.

I'm mainly starting this now so that if inspiration strikes we can just go here and tap away.

I think we should aim to create an outline, a little like an RP profile, when we submit the characters and those that approved by Jyro will get added here.

Template.

Name:
Personality:
Appearance:
History:
Suggested class:


So we should include at least;
Name...for obvious reasons.
Personality...so we can organise supports and interaction.
Appearance...obvious reasons yet again.
History...backstory character development w/e, can be used in supports as well as non-battle scenes.
Suggested class: based on their character and personality, can be specific such as "Myrmidon" or general such as "sword fighter."

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Sui-kun
Posted: May 19 2008, 11:20 PM


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Alright. I'll begin first.

We should also add "homecountry" and "how they join".

Name: *pending* (Lord)
Personality: The Lord is an individual who is more carefree than most. He's a bit lazy, sort of a procrastinator, and doesn't really care that he is. However, this is only to a point. When the situation calls for it, he springs into action and turns into someone who is very dependable at that moment. This is also only to a point, of course; he'll only do as much as is needed for him to do, then let someone else take care of it. His subordinates are frequently annoyed by his attitude, though are usually unable to do anything about it.
Appearance:
user posted imageuser posted image
(I understand you might not like it; even I'm not satisfied! But I'm throwing it here anyway.
Homecountry: Morasia
History: *tentative*
Suggested class: Lord (uses one-handed swords with two hands)



Name: Renoir
Personality: Renoir generally has a very bright, child-like attitude most of the time. She's very carefree, likes to play, and takes few things seriously. She's never really traveled out of her country before, so she's very new to a lot of things having been pampered by her band of thieves since she was a baby. Renoir adores babies and children, though doesn't understand "the facts of life". If any are in danger, her attitude changes completely, and she becomes a lethe and merciless user of daggers.
Appearance:
user posted image
Homecountry: Viller
History:
Renoir has been the leader of a band of (all-male) thieving bandits since she was seven. Born to a couple who led a large group of bandits which made their home in a small abandoned fort in the Eastern part of Viller, she was thus made the leader when her parents were captured by Morasian officials, and executed. Since then, the group of thieves has thinned out, and those who've stayed are incredibly loyal to Renoir and have raised her in her parents stead. Unfortunately, they haven't done a very good job, so she's quite spoiled and often asks for unreasonable things. Her thieving group has a mutual relationship with a nearby hamlet-- the citizens provide food and supplies to them, and Renoir and her thieves provide protection. It has been that way for many years.
Suggested class: Thief
How she joins: a hamlet is attacked by bandits, and she and several of her retainers come down the mountain to defend it. The Lord and she join forces for this battle, but the leader of the bandits escapes. She vows to track him down and kill him for all the people he killed; the Lord eventually decides to follow her and make sure she doesn't get killed doing it, because he's a nice guy. Eventually, they track down the bandit boss and defeat him. As a result of their working together and witnessing his prowess in battle, she becomes attached to the main character, and decides to follow him in hopes of marrying him one day. (she explicitly tells him this, much to the main character's outrage)



Name: Aria
Personality:
Aria, as a soldier, is generally seen as a very serious person who is always on duty 24/7. In a way, she is a FOIL for the Lord who is very carefree. She is a like a business woman-- never be late, do the job correctly, don't dawdle. She often complains to the Lord for his laxness, and wishes she were not assigned to his unit. She sort of acts as his personal second-in-command. But when she is not on duty, she is much more open to socialization and appears even more beautiful than she is. She has some hobbies that some might not expect as well. Also a terrible cook.
Appearance:
user posted image
Homecountry: Morasia
History:
Aria was born to a middle-class farming family way out in the countryside. She has over 6 other brothers and sisters-- though, out of all of them, she is the only daughter in the military. All of her other sisters have decided to go to the capital to look for eligible bachelors to marry, while she has decided to follow in her father's footsteps who she has adored since she was a child. The scar over her eye wasn't received in a battle; she gave it to herself when she foolishly flourished a sword when she was 8. Her father decided to teach her how to use it properly, and thus swordfighting is now what she is best at.
Her father has been missing in action for several years.
Suggested class: Mercenary
How she joins: One of your starting units who you begin the game with.



Name: Esperina
Personality:
Esperina is a very vengeful ship captain. Due to a troubling past that haunts her to this very day, she no longer feels any compassion for anyone. She is mean-spirited, takes no jokes, and has a habit of throwing insults at people she doesn't know very well. Not that anyone can talk back to her-- she is the captain, after all. What she says goes. If she wants you off the ship, she'll make sure you get off it, even if it means skewering you with a rapier.
But somewhere, deep inside, she feels like crying... and this attitude of hers was only made a long time ago in order to get her revenge.
Appearance:
user posted image
Homecountry: Caprisini
History:
Esperina's history is made up of happy memories, blood-soaked memories, and memories of the sea. When she was eighteen, she met the love of her life. They married, and decided to have children. But before they could start their family, pirates attacked the port. It was a massive invasion, and they killed everyone they came across. Eventually, the pirates reached their cottage in the middle of town. In the hectic battle, her husband was brutally killed and beheaded by an axe from one of the pirate leaders. They destroyed her home and her town, and she was barely able to escape their lecherous clutches. Her happy life was ruined forever. From then on, she vowed to get revenge for destroying her future. She learned to fight, learned oceanography, and joined a crew. Motivated by her desire to commandeer her own ship to search and destroy those pirates, she rose through the ranks quickly to become what she is now-- a captain of a merchant vessel turned warship. Though many dislike her quite a bit, those who know her best understand why.
Suggested class: Buccaneer (a new promotion of the pirate class)
How she joins: Is captain of the ship that the Lord eventually boards to reach Caprisini. She is first skeptical of the Lord and fires many insults at him, but as the journey progresses she recognizes his reasons and abilities; he also convinces her that what she is doing is a waste of her life. She decides to accompany and bring him back to Morasia, where she encounters the pirate who ruined her future. And so, she joins in order to pursue him deep into the country.



Name: Fiore
Personality:
A scholarly, eccentric individual with a formal tongue. There truly is nothing special about him besides the fact that he loves to play with dark magic and concoctions, and is an excellent cook because of it. He simply lives life as it comes and lives for nothing except... well, he's just around.
"I daresay, that cherry cheesecake looks quite delicious!"
"I am sorry, sir. If you attack me, you will likely suffer a very painful death. Do you mind?"
"This spell is quite lovely; it turns your blood into powder and causes utmost pain."
"Do you not believe in ghosts? I find them to be good fun! Don't you?"
"I wish this feeling of pain would last forever!"
Appearance:
user posted image
Homecountry: Ebelzard
History:
Fiore has an enigmatic history. Also having some eccentric parents, Fiore was born in a family of dark magic users. He was sent to an academy of Elder Magic, and excelled there. Afterwards, hoping to get some fine jobs upon getting his Elder Magic degree, he went to Sikander (Ebelzard's capital). Unfortunately, nobody would hire him, and he was forced to get a bar tending job which required him to concoct alcoholic beverages and wash down tables. Needless to say, he is very good at it. His alcohol resistance is off the charts.
Suggested class: Shaman
How he joins:
*pending*



Name: Reggie
Personality:
Reggie is very much a tomboy. As the daughter of a blacksmith, she is very strong and muscular, and often wears what would be dubbed as "boy's" clothing. She is like a big sister to most of her friends, and she is the kind of person to go to if you're seeking advice. She is very happy to help anyone. Unfortunately, there is a part of her that lacks self-confidence. Because she has a very boyish attitude, she fears that she lacks femininity, and will never find love because men don't like boy-ish girls.

Appearance:
user posted image

Homecountry: Geiss (Rushera)
History:
Reggie is the daughter of a blacksmith. Her mother died when she was young, and her father is beginning to get old. He can no longer produce weapons like he used to, and
so now she needs to take up the business and help him forge weapons. After using a hammer for many years, she is much more muscular than she used to be and much more used to manual labor.
Suggested class: Fighter
How she joins:
The Lord arrives in her town, which is occupied by soldiers. In order to protect everyone... she joins. *tentative*
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Jyro
Posted: May 19 2008, 11:24 PM


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Good job on the lord!
I'll read all the descriptions and comment more tomorrow, it's late and I just got back from the lake. But really, I love the mug.


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Jyro
Posted: May 21 2008, 09:50 PM


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user posted image
I hope you don't mind, I did some touch-ups on the lord mug, it's not true to the 16 bit, and looks a little bit better I think.

Download Lord.png


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Sui-kun
Posted: May 22 2008, 01:14 AM


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None of the mugs here are true to 16-bit, Jyro. I made them that way on purpose.

In some ways, it's better (yours has 17 colors by the way). But in others, if you look more closely, there are a few errors... There's a little too much contrast in the hair with the brightest shade being a little too bright, and its missing some strands... It's also now missing the purple outline that all Fire Emblem mugs share. The cape also has these additional red dots...

I like mine more (though I do have to admit the skin tone is a little off, but that can be fixed easily). But if there are errors or inconsistencies you see in my mugs, please tell me so I can be the one to fix them. Not to be rude, but the only person I want editing my mugs is me.
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Jyro
Posted: May 22 2008, 09:17 AM


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Well, your mug has too much contrast in the cape, where the bright is too bright, and the dark is too dark. And whats the point in making all those gradients when the cape itself looks edgy with the thin pixel lines and all. The hair is also too dark, and in your mug, there is the dark outline, and a lighter red outline around that. That yellow on his left shoulder pad, is that supposed to be around the outside of it, or up the grey part with more grey on the other side?


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Glen
Posted: May 22 2008, 09:38 AM


From the manger to the morgue


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I see where Jyro's coming from. I think the only problem I have with doing that for the mugs is that there will be a pretty obvious lack in consistency. The lord's sprite looks like it came out of FE5, while some of the others look like GBA-style revamps.

For each sprite, there does need to be some fine tuning to the clothing, bodies, and to the shading, because there are some things that don't look quite professional there, either. A few anatomical problems here and there, too, like the ear on Fiore's mug being too far up her head.

I think we need to consider and agree on the artistic style we're going to be using for the sprites and stick to that. I would definitely prefer to use the simpler GBA-style art style just because it might be hard to consider light source when you're altering the colors on your sprites with the dodge and burn tools. I really like how the lord's sprite turned out, honestly, but it simply doesn't fit in with the rest.
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Sui-kun
Posted: May 22 2008, 02:40 PM


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QUOTE
Well, your mug has too much contrast in the cape, where the bright is too bright, and the dark is too darkAnd whats the point in making all those gradients when the cape itself looks edgy with the thin pixel lines and all

That's Orson's cape. The original color also had high contrast (due to lighting), and it looked fine. In fact, when I tried to use a more subdued color, it looked worse. Since this is a sprite with approximately 4000 pixels, it's going to look edgy in some spots. Even the game sprites are like that. And if they are, I'm assuming it's okay.


QUOTE
The hair is also too dark, and in your mug, there is the dark outline, and a lighter red outline around that

I agree with you here. Since the face IS from FE5 (first time in which I decided to look into it for more resources) and it does use darker colors, it may not fit with the whole GBA-look. :/ I just wanted more graphix to work off of. I guess I shouldn't use FE5 mugs, huh? I'm not sure what you're saying about the outline, though. It's purple all around, isn't it? (referring to the serious-expression mug btw)

QUOTE
That yellow on his left shoulder pad, is that supposed to be around the outside of it, or up the grey part with more grey on the other side?

The "gold" design on the pauldron is not an outline. In other words, there's more gray armor on the other side. Since that is so, it is indeed weird to have the design placed there and makes it look like it's oddly angled. Shall I remove it?

QUOTE
For each sprite, there does need to be some fine tuning to the clothing, bodies, and to the shading, because there are some things that don't look quite professional there, either. A few anatomical problems here and there, too, like the ear on Fiore's mug being too far up her head.

Okay, I can fix that. Tell me more. What is not anatomically correct? If my mugs are blaringly full of errors, and I'm not seeing it, I need to know. Renoir might look odd; she looks better when flipped around. Aria's cleavage is a little high-- but that's because I want to see it. Esperina looks pretty spiffy to me, save for a few spots on the vest which I'm at a loss for fixing. Fiore is an older sprite, so he probably needs some tweaking as you say. And Reggie looks fine to me.

QUOTE
I think we need to consider and agree on the artistic style we're going to be using for the sprites and stick to that. I would definitely prefer to use the simpler GBA-style art style just because it might be hard to consider light source when you're altering the colors on your sprites with the dodge and burn tools. I really like how the lord's sprite turned out, honestly, but it simply doesn't fit in with the rest.


Fine. I'll make a new one.

I'm not changing the light sources with the burn/dodge tools. I'm merely making the light parts lighter, and the dark parts darker (unless applying them makes the mug look worse, in which case I don't do it.)

Here are the 16-bit versions, since you guys want 'em so much.

user posted image
user posted image
user posted image
(also, I don't currently have 16-bit Fiore, sorry)
user posted image
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Jyro
Posted: May 22 2008, 03:09 PM


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Don't make her cleavage lower, it looks good like that tongue.gif
Uhmm, now that I have seen the different, what you were doing with the gradients looks so much nicer, and I'm now thinking that since we can do it, and since you are the main/head mug spriter, you can or should do it your way. If for whatever reason we have other mugs thrown in, you should spiffy it up with you photoshop abilities.
The main lord with that gold trim in the middle of his shoulder pad, I only just realized that now that you told me. That insignia came off at the start as being in the middle of the shoulder pad. So I guess either move the insignia to where the yellow thing is or take it off. I kinda like that insignia though, I think it should be kept, and maybe when he switches sides, he takes it off/puts it on, whatever side it belongs to.
Also with the main lord, I think the only conflict were having with its style is that pallet. The colors need to be changed around, too dark maybe? You can fool around with that.


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Sui-kun
Posted: May 22 2008, 03:32 PM


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x_x I'm glad you agree. Come to think of it, usually one doesn't realize the effect the dodge/burn tool has until they've seen the originals.

Okay then. So I'll fix that shoulderpad. That's a good idea with the insignia/switching sides by the way. I didn't realize we could do that.

I'll see what I can do about the pallet. The trouble is with the hair. Something about it doesn't allow very good re-colors.
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Jyro
Posted: May 22 2008, 04:10 PM


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Perhaps you can try some different hair styles from other mugs. Theres something about that hair that reminds me too much of one of the lords from the SNES games.


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Glen
Posted: May 22 2008, 06:26 PM


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QUOTE (Sui-kun @ May 22 2008, 02:40 PM)
QUOTE
For each sprite, there does need to be some fine tuning to the clothing, bodies, and to the shading, because there are some things that don't look quite professional there, either. A few anatomical problems here and there, too, like the ear on Fiore's mug being too far up her head.

Okay, I can fix that. Tell me more. What is not anatomically correct? If my mugs are blaringly full of errors, and I'm not seeing it, I need to know. Renoir might look odd; she looks better when flipped around. Aria's cleavage is a little high-- but that's because I want to see it. Esperina looks pretty spiffy to me, save for a few spots on the vest which I'm at a loss for fixing. Fiore is an older sprite, so he probably needs some tweaking as you say. And Reggie looks fine to me.

QUOTE
I think we need to consider and agree on the artistic style we're going to be using for the sprites and stick to that. I would definitely prefer to use the simpler GBA-style art style just because it might be hard to consider light source when you're altering the colors on your sprites with the dodge and burn tools. I really like how the lord's sprite turned out, honestly, but it simply doesn't fit in with the rest.


Fine. I'll make a new one.

I'm not changing the light sources with the burn/dodge tools. I'm merely making the light parts lighter, and the dark parts darker (unless applying them makes the mug look worse, in which case I don't do it.)

Here are the 16-bit versions, since you guys want 'em so much.

user posted image
user posted image
user posted image
(also, I don't currently have 16-bit Fiore, sorry)
user posted image

All of those sprites look better without all that stuff added to them, honestly. The light source is much more apparent, and the shading just doesn't look overdone in the places it's done right. Another reason I like them better is because it doesn't use a cheap trick to mask flaws. At a glance all those sprites look pretty good, but now that I'm focusing on the details, I see a lot of problems.

The importance of the artwork looking as good as possible all depends on how serious and professional you want the game to look. Leave the flaws and all that if you want, but all I'm saying is this: To an outsider, it could very easily be a turn-off if things aren't absolutely great, you know? And now for the details since you've asked for them.

Renoir:
Her robe goes down in straight lines. Also there is little shading on it and it looks, well, lazy. It takes away from the head and neck of the sprite, which look much better. You need to look at some other artwork of clothing like that to see how the fabric falls, because that's not good enough by any means whatsoever.

Aria:
The cleavage you mentioned is actually fine considering her arms are crossed (or it looks that way). If that is indeed a hand in that corner, I would definitely suggest you do something to make it a bit more noticeable, like add a darker outline, or include more of the hand. Also, each side of her body seems to be at a different angle. The one with the shoulderpad is at a steeper angle than the one that doesn't have a pad. Her neck and body need a lot more shading, especially on the bare-shouldered side where there should be more shadow. And on the same side, that part of her clothing should probably be re-drawn. It doesn't flow with the rest of the sprite. The hair needs some work. Color choices could have been far better. The lightest and medium shades on the 16-bit are too far apart from one another, so it takes away from the way it looks. Instead of adding a color effect to mask that, just add one more color to her hair, and use that lightest shade to fix it. Or you could just change the current lightest shade to something darker or have the middle shade be something slightly lighter. Either would work.

Esperina:
First off, let me say that this sprite looks much better without all the flair. She looks like a lot like a bunch of pillows with all that extra shading. However, even with it, it leaves a lot to be desired. The white part of that jacket is completely pillow-shaded (Only around the edges and nowhere else). The line of the cloth, especially on the near shoulder, is sloppy. If you want to make it look wrinkled, do that with both the outline and the shading as well, otherwise it gives the appearance of a poorly drawn line. And now for the hat. The angle of the hat is not consistent to the angle of her head. Is she intentionally wearing a crooked hat? Setting even that aside, the embroidery is, for the most part, very well done. The fabric part, notsomuch. The shading in the near side of the hat toward her back simply shouldn't be there unless it's supposed to be wrinkled or folded there. It doesn't look that way, though, since the embroidered edge of the hat doesn't fold or wrinkle in a similar fashion. Instead it just looks like it doesn't belong.

Fiore:
His hair should probably fall a little more straightly to his back. The way it's curved just doesn't look quite right. If it's supposed to be tucked behind his ear or something, that should be done with the lines and shading inside the line of the hair, and not outside it. Also, his face and shoulders look a bit scrunched. In the ways of shading, I'd say this one was the worst. His face is almost completely light-shaded on one side, despite all that hair he's got, and the collar which should be casting at least a small shadow.

Reggie:
I don't really have too many things to comment on for this one, since it doesn't actually look like a whole lot of this sprite is custom. As for the part of Tethys's arm that you did add in, if you wanted her arm to look more toned, that's a good idea, and the shading and outline you added do match that pretty well. I think it's the outline more than the shading that looks a bit off, but that could be a little refined. On this one I'm being just plain being picky, but you asked for what I noticed, so that's it. However, if you wanted to portray her more as a tomboy-ish type, I'd definitely suggest a revamp of this one. Tethys's body is not the best choice if that's what you're going for.

All the mistakes and everything else I noticed aren't meant to be mean or anything. It's only constructive criticism. The sprites need a lot more work before they should be used for anything. And what I meant by the light source getting changed wasn't your doing. The use of those tools screws with the perception of the light source, and it isn't consistent that way. That's what I mean.
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Sui-kun
Posted: May 23 2008, 12:30 AM


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...hold on while I get a glass of water to cool my head.

Hey, Glen. I'm not a professional. If I was, I wouldn't be stealing parts from other mugs. I merely try my best to make them how I want them to be. I'm taking your suggestions into consideration, however, because you are correct in some cases.

Renoir: How the fabric falls? You mean to say it lacks wrinkles? I didn't intend to put wrinkles because that's not the way I meant it to look. Of course the face looks more detailed than the clothes. It's a face. ...besides, the clothes I based them off of don't look much different. I don't see how these clothes can be made any other way without making them sag a little (and this vest is supposed to be tight.)

Aria: ...okay. Fine. More shading, even though I prefer the pale skin. The pauldron is at a steep angle. Fine. There was an outline on the hand, however I felt it made the hand stand out too much, like it was just pasted there like a sticker.
I am looking at the hair colors, though. The lightest shade might have been a tad bright, and I'm darkening it a few values. However, all of the other hair errors I simply will not fix. I'm bad at making hair in the first place, so wavy hair is out of the question. I'm happy with it for the time being.
I admit the right side is lacking. At the time of the making of the sprite, I was required to build a new left shoulder for her, which I was rather unsuccessful at doing in the presence of those strands of hair.
But even so, I'm still relatively happy with what I put together. You don't have to be, do you?

Esperina: Yes, there is pillow shading on the vest. A little bit. I've tried and tried to make it appear less so, but I've given up and that's what I've got. I see what you mean about the wrinkles of the shoulder embroidery and the hat shading in the back. You've looked too closely for comfort, but I'll see if I can do something about it. Not too wrinkly though, as the shoulder is supposed to be a little puffy...
But I'll fix the back of the hat. I remember being indecisive about whether I wanted it to fold that way or not, so I sort of did a combination of the two. I'll make the embroidery shadowed to follow the effect of the fold.

Fiore:
Yes, he has shading issues. I know all about it. We can throw him out if he's that bad.

Reggie:
I chose Tethys body because I wanted a particular angle. Not because she's a tomboy. I'm not changing this angle no matter what because it's unique, but I might give her some clothes. Toned? As in darker? I'm just looking for a little muscle-- no darker toned skin.
Question for you: If you don't think she's best suited to be a tomboy, what do you suggest?


If these aren't good enough to even be used (in which case they must be garbage), then I'm not contributing anything else. Are you sure you're just not being too meticulous? I know there are little errors, but the mugs over at Intelligent Systems can't be THAT far away in quality, can they? It's not like every single IS mug is absolutely perfect. And even if they are... I can't do any better than they can anytime soon.

Anyways, since you seem to be so knowledgeable about what to do, I give you full permission to change them all you want to your specifications. I'm sure you can do it easily.


EDIT:
user posted image
user posted image

...did a little work on the Lord's mug. Fixed up the eyes a bit. Two hairstyles. Which do you like? If you guy don't like the dark red hair too, it's easy to change it.
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Jyro
Posted: May 23 2008, 09:46 AM


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Wow Glen, you are the rankest critic...
To be honest, all those comments on the mugs weren't full out necisary. In my opinion these mugs are the best ones I have ever seen made by a fan. He's not a professional and hes not getting paid to do this, so this is extreemly good quality. And if we have everyone changing aroung the sprites on their own things would get to duplicated and I think that Sui-kun should be in complete control in the mugs. Sui-kun, the bottom mug for the main lord is alot better! the shoulder pad is mint. You should show another one with that glare effect you have with the bottom one. As for all the other characters, little or no change needs to be made, but if you feel Glen is right on some things feel free to change them.


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Sui-kun
Posted: May 23 2008, 10:31 AM


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Glen is right about a few things. I did ask for details, and that's what he gave me. After all... I want the best for this game. If what I currently have isn't the best (while being splices and all), I'll simply make them better. We have plenty of time to edit mugs anyways...

I just don't know how the guys at Intelligent Systems do it...


You like the bottom one? rolleyes.gif He looks neater than the top one, but on the other hand (if we add a hairband) he'll look just like Marth. (this also isn't the final draft; still little inconsistencies here and there, just deciding hairstyle)

I'm hesitant to use the dodge/burn tool anymore, Jyro. But if you insist.

One more thing: if we decide on this appearance, then we might as well decide on a suitable name. One solid name. Anything in our lists of names that might go with him?

EDIT:
user posted image (can't do much here...)
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