So first is first. I have enough space for six chariots in the army i'm toying with. Do chariots out perform Necro knights? second how many is optimal? I plan to run 6 in a 3 by 2 formation so they will recieve a boost in strength. I will run them without a prince. And finally do they get supporting attacks. I don't reckon they will get impact hits for the second rank but they will each get to make one attack in the following combat correct?.

Necropolis Knights hit harder and survive longer, but they aren't Core. Chariots on the other hand are Core, can take a magic banner and are also a bit faster than the Knights. Both are good units to take.

If I'm going for S5 impact hits, I'll try to have two ranks of four chariots. With ranks of three your opponent only has to kill one to negate the rank bonus, and after that the unit's hitting power decreases dramatically. Six chariots could go four in the front and two in the back, or two separate units of three.

Also, no supporting attacks for chariots (p. 86 in the rulebook).

hit harder you say? Do they get supporting attacks i wonder? This isj very interesting. Whats the optimal formation for them?

the riders on the necroknights can make up to 3 supporting attacks, the serpents can't make any supporting attacks, and as mentioned above, chariots can't make any kind of supporting attacks.

also, both the riders and serpents have better stats than the chariots and they have KB and poison. however hey don't have impact hits and benefit less from healing.

but it's you choice, try both and decide wich one you want to use.

For chariots and knights both, I aim for a frontage of four models. Available space becomes an issue if you have several such units, so I've also ran the Necropolis Knights as two ranks of three. Two ranks help you especially on the flanks, as your enemy loses his rank bonus and there might not be enough ranks (hordes, for example) to get all four of your models into contact.

so which would be better two units of three or one unit of six

If you're talking about chariots, I'd go for two units of three. That way you maximise the amount of impact hits (although at S4) and your opponent has two glass cannons to deal with instead of one.

If your opponents don't have the means to kill at least one chariot before you hit combat you could also try the unit of six, but even then two smaller units offer a lot more flexibility.

ok then one more question, what about a unit of three chariots and a unit of three Necro knights? I can finagle this i suppose.

How about commands? Full commands for chariots, or partial?

If I only run two units of three I won't waste the points. i'd keep em cheap.

I disagree on taking two units of three instead of one unit. The argument that it means losing one chariot reduces the effectiveness on the big unit doesn't make sense. If you lose one chariot in a unit of 6 then you are still doing 3d6 (or 4d6 depending on ranking) s4 impact hits. And you have enough bodies that after the enemy has swung, your front chariots will still get to attack. If you lose one chariot in a unit of 3, you are now only doing 2d6 s4 impact hits and will almost certainly be attacking back with max of one chariot after you get hit. It is just so much easier to roll poorly with 2d6 than 3d6 that it is very worth it to try to keep those numbers up. And for a lot of units, if they take 3d6 or 4d6 s4 impact hits, that is still gonna hurt a LOT. If they take 2d6...eh, they can shrug that off. Also, it is one thing to say that you only have to lose one chariot to lose the strength bonus but in my experience, people often don't try to pop that one chariot off since you can easily get a single spell cast on them in the next few turns and get that chariot back. So people either target them to kill the unit or ignore them. Either way, a bigger unit is better since targeting to kill takes a lot longer and ignoring is much more painful.

Further, the argument that since chariots don't get support attacks makes bigger units bad is also flawed since it is very possible that you will lose about 2 chariots from attacks before they get to swing. Which means if you take a unit of 6 and you lost one to shooting before you charged, and then two more to return attacks, you still get the whole front rank to attack (and more importantly you have a unit alive to win that combat). If your unit of 3 chariots loses one to shooting and then loses two more to return attacks, you get no attacks back and no matter how many you killed, they still won combat since you have nothing left.

I tried both ways, with several smaller units and then one bigger unit and since trying one big unit, there is no way I would ever go back, it is just too useful. If you try to rely on having s5 impact hits, then you will be disappointed. Instead, put them 4-wide and just count on doing 4d6 s4 impact hits and that is much more likely to happen (and is devastating).

As for the question between taking chariots and necroknights, I think it depends a lot on the rest of your army. Basically, necroknights are better overall - they have more reliable, powerful, consistent hitting power and are much more durable, and they have KB and poison. But, they can't compare to a full chariot charge for sheer death. So if you think it is more useful to have a unit that is more of a grinding unit that can hold up an enemy and slowly work it down, take the knights. If you need something that can put on a LOT of wounds to fragile but hard hitting units (swordmasters) before being attacked, take the chariots.

I agree with Blackthorne completely.

I've been using a unit of 7 with a King almost all of my games and it has yet to disappoint me. If you are so lucky as either getting smiting off on the chariots or desiccation on their target, then you can just watch whatever they hit melt away.

As for taking Chariots or Knights, why not take both? They do different things in the army and they're both rather fun to use.

ve posted the army I'll be useing in the army section of the forum. Please comment on it. The problem I run into in this, I have just enough points for three chariots and three necro knights without upgrades. or two units of three with up grades. I have two warsphinxes, casket, hierotitan, two large blocks of infantry, one unit of archers for a hierophant bunker and two princes for the infantry blocks for better defense. The biggest points sink I have is the two HLP im running. Though I'm not sure I'm willing to drop one. I like the death load out I have with cloak of dunes and nefferara's scroll to get a good moon of xerxees off.

Whether you take one unit of chariots of six or two with three really depend on what other units you have and what role you want them to play in the game. You can't generally say that one is better than the other in this case.

Chariots versus Knights is the same thing, they are vastly different types of units. One thing that chariots has going for them that is not mentioned is that chariots heal 3D+1 where Knights only heal one wound since they are constructs.

just read this:


impact hits kill High Elves


...



end of story :P

I have some questions regarding Chariots, as we're the only army that can field units of them.

1. When firing bows from a unit of Chariots, do the second rank get to fire? (also, do I really get to fire with both crew members, because that seems ridiculous, who the hell is driving these things, lol)

2. If I have a prince/king in a unit of chariots, do they get just a 5+ save?
3. If the prince has light armour/heavy armour/shield, does the save increase?
4. When someone targets the prince's chariot in combat, do they roll against the WS of the prince or the horses?
5. Should they even be able to target the Chariot? Seems like people could kill the prince's chariot really quickly, then I've got a gimp prince running around on his own :(

1. First and second rank (and half of the third, if you have one and they didn't move), and yes as both are armed with bows you get two shots a chariot. We don't question the will of the Kings :P

2&3. The chariot gives the character riding it 1 better armor save (so if they had 4+ from Heavy Armor and Shield they would get a 3+ save while riding the chariot), the chariot itself still only has a 5+ armor save however.

4. The drivers WS is used (aka, the Prince/King).

5. Sadly yes, as it's a multi-wound mount it can be individually targeted and it's one of the reasons many avoid fielding chariot kings. However note that while his chariot can be taken out from under him the prince/king isn't expelled from the unit automatically until you chose to leave it yourself (part of the Tomb Kings FAQ), you can't rejoin the unit if you chose to do so however. So while he won't be shot to pieces by everything within a five-mile radius he's gonna be left open to warmachines and slow the unit down.

Haha this brings back so many memories....

Specially when he was surrounded by 2 units of Choas Knights.
Mmm live bait.
ETBS of 6 Stalkers come up, turn a unit of 9 knights and Lord into sand while king charges head long into the other unit of 5 then running them down.

Anyway I digress...

Chariots and Nek Knights have two completely different jobs (sort of)
I don't think anyone can safely say which will be better for the OP without seeing the rest of his list IMPO.

Fenris any chance you can post your list? (no need to post points or magic items just your troop counts)

people who are afraid that it is just too nice for the enemy to kill one of six charriots with shooting: please keep in mind that you can heal the missing charriot back after charging, thereby restoring your impact strength to 5, (as per the most recent FAQ, if you don't agree right away).

It's how we roll :P

See I don't actually think that's fair lol.
6th Gen Tomb Kings book says if you res a chariot back on the charge you dot get combat res.

But hey 8th gen can override that if it wishes..... I won't be complaining haha

(although my enemy might)

Just in case your gaming group gives you trouble:

The resurrected model doesn't count as charging, so no Impact Hits and no bonus from spears.
Rank bonus on the other hand doesn't have anything to do with charging, so nothing prohibits the model from contributing to that.
The Strength bonus to Impact Hits comes from rank bonus, so really, there is no rule preventing a resurrected chariot from helping to bump up those Impacts to S5.

Nothing unfair about it either, as we need considerable effort to keep our chariots in good enough shape to do to S5 Impacts.
They are easy to take down and in order to resurrect them back we have to have a Liche in range, cast the spell succesfully AND the opponent has to fail his dispel.

Our liches also could not miscast in the 6th edition rules, so take the good stuff where you can. New edition, new rules.

wow, nice separation of the different effects at work. great point, I'm going to remember it like that.

Yea I know, I miss 6 gen liche casting but then again was very unfair when te 8th gen rule book was out.
All in all I think 8th gen Tomb Kings are THE best army for fantasy... Mind you that is opinion. They can just do everything... Except save armour saves... Lol

perfect description of TK in one sentence! ^_^

Wait, we...get...armor saves? What is this magical thing you speak of? As far as my experience goes, armor saves don't even exist for this army... :lol: