Title: Armylist Evolution
Description: Thoughts and battle reports
Maglok - April 5, 2012 02:25 PM (GMT)
Alright so I am not that great at writing down huge, long, texts or illustrating battle reports. What I can do is give highlights.
I want to write down just what makes certain lists of mine work against opponents and why some things don't work. So an evolving thread to which I'll add a few notes for each of my battles.
I have played two matches last weekend and will be playing daemons this weekend. Here are my thoughts on the last two battles:
Usually I play no special characters allowed.2.5K vs High elves
I was 'inspired' by Mark Wildman to try out a small variation on a list he posted. His list was this: http://z4.invisionfree.com/Khemri/index.php?showtopic=11108
I wanted to see how 2x6knights with light backup would work. I didn't know what opponent I would face when I wrote a small variation on the list. Nothing major. Mainly I added a warsphinx because I had more points to spend then Mark did.
Turns out I was to play a high elf friend of mine. He had a star dragon
and a lot of infantry. Horde of 50 spearmen, 30 swordmasters, a block of white lions and some archers.
The star dragon didn't do anything all game, besides failing a charge. It ended up charging my warsphinx, which was a standstill.
- Star dragons are strong, but best ignored. Continue with the gameplan I say. I blocked my vital units from being charged by it and just ignored it.
- Skeleton unit charged his lion chariot and just obliterated it with a necrotect. I do see how a simple skeleton block can work if you do not add a prince and make it expensive. It didn't do anything else, but taking out the lion chariot was already worth it.
- 2x6 necroknights is a lot of deployment space. I ranked up one of the two units. Charging a 6 wide and a 3 wide in 2 high elf hordes turned out better then I thought. Due to speed of light he had lost combat by so much that his swordmaster horde was just crippled and his spearmen held out one more round. That was his entire main force just shot down. No reroll for him and all the stomps, poisoned hits and killing blows just beat the elves at their own game.
- A warsphinx will own 25 white lions everytime.
- Archers are nice, but didn't do so much because I got in combat so quickly. They did take out his archers by shooting through a forest as if it was nothing (not for us undead it isnt!)
Result: Win in turn 2.5 due to only a star dragon left.
Unit of the match: The necroknights.
Thoughts on the list in general: It is a strong list, but I can see it having a lot of probs against non-infantry lists. I also didn't like to play it that much, it felt a bit one sided. It was fun to have 3 units of scouts though.2.5K vs Vampire Counts
This was a spontaneous game against the same player. He had just bought some vampire counts and wanted to get his first game in.
I had never played vampire counts, so I quickly wrote up a generic list. It included 2x4 chariots, 2x4 necroknights, 2xwarsphinx, a level4 caster and a level 1 light caster, CoS and hierotitan, and some more things.
His list included a horde of ghouls, skeletons and grave guard. He also had hexwraiths, blacknights, a unit of direwolves, a corpse cart and a black coach. There was a level 4 necromancer on top of the corpse cart and a vampire BSB in the skeleton unit.
- I should not overreact to hexwraiths that can only be hit by magic. In my first turn I opened the floodgates on it by moving all my magic missle capable things near it and to use my catapult on them. Turns out the casket went off and killed them all quite easily (and half of his black knights behind them).
- Vanguard moves of direwolves brought them way too close to my lines and a simple chariot charge took care of all of them.
- While it might look like a lot of skeletons being raised if in turn one he summons 10, it is not that bad.
- I got a unit of chariots, two units of necroknights and a warsphinx to charge into his ghouls and skeleton hordes at the same time. It became one combat, it was a massacre. He couldn't hit a lot (speed of light) and I ended up with a 38 combat result win. Everything just died. I overran into his corpse cart and it was over.
- The black coach had the potential to turn into something really nasty, so I might have thrown some skulls on that. I did throw skulls on the corpse cart.
- Always take out a full unit before moving on when it comes to vampire counts.
- Us TK might not be used to it, but if a fight turns into a slugmatch of kill-raise combo, we will lose everytime against a Vampire Count. Don't get caught with your pants down.
Result: Win in turn 3, only black coach left.
Unit of the match: Casket of Souls, insta-killed 8 hexwraiths.
Thoughts on the list in general: I really like the diversity of this list. The thing is it lacks any real bunch of melee infantry. If I were to roll the watchtower scenario I would probably move 20 archers in there (but not the caster I usually attach to them).
Quatar54 - April 5, 2012 04:23 PM (GMT)
Nice summaries, and congrats on the wins! :)
Maglok - April 5, 2012 10:36 PM (GMT)
For saturday I will field the exact same list as when I played Vampire Counts. My tactic will be to use my impact hits to destroy soft T3 bloodletters, etc.
I aim to use the necroknights to deal with the heavier stuff, like bloodcrushers. Might not be the best move, but I need something to deal with it.
I will be making full use of the light wizard and the shem's on the hierotitan. The extra dmg versus deamons should be nice.
He probably has some slaanesh things, he likes his speed. With a bit of luck I can kill those before 'the rest' arrives, but probably not if he makes good decisions. I shall therefor try to use things like the casket and the catapults to destroy any really fast slaanesh units. I also still have a bunch of archers that can do it.
If he takes a disc sorceror or a greater demon I will at first ignore most of him. If I see an option to take it out, I shall jump on it, but I cannot let my battleplan be too affected by a caster like that. Many are the games that I have lost track and started turning units around to deal with one unit of scouts.
Report to come after the game this saturday!
Maglok - April 7, 2012 03:38 PM (GMT)
2.5K vs deamons
Here we go! See the following picture for the setup. We had to proxy a bit, his 'marauders' were plaguebearers and I proxied stalkers as necroknights and a few more bases.
His list was a horde of bloodletters with a herald, a horde of plaguebearers with a herald, 5 bloodcrushers with a herald and a greater demon of tzeetch.
My list was the same one as against the vampire counts previously. I rolled pretty bad on spells and missed out on smiting or dessication. Leaving me with cursed blades, desert wind, the movement hex and protection.Round 1
The deamon player won the roll off. He advanced everything and 'hid' his greater demon in the middle behind an obelisk that was actually a magic circle. This was going to be important all game. His units kept being close to the obelisk and magic resistance + deamon ward saves = 3+ ward saves. His greater deamon sniped one skeleton archer. His magic only saw his bloodletters get shield of thorns. I dispelled the rest or it wasn't relevant.
My turn I started moving around a bit to recieve/set charges in turn 2. I moved a bit back, etc. My magic phase was utterly bad. My shooting managed to down a few models, but those would be healed back up next turn with his lore of life Tzeetch deamon. I did manage to lob a SSC on top of his greater deamon, but rolled a 1 to wound. (I did this three times during the match! Argh!)Round 2
He was out of charge range for anything, and thus did not charge, but move up. His magic was abyssmal (3 dice) and he didn't get anything off. He managed to kill one more skeleton archer in the shooting phase.
In my turn the game really got started. I charged necroknights, chariots and a warsphinx in his bloodletters. I also charged chariots into his bloodcrushers and finally I charged necroknights and a warsphinx (looks like a necrosphinx :P) into his plaguebearers.
On second thought the bloodcrusher charge was pretty stupid. It could have easily gone against me and he would have overrun and charged my hierophant unit.
In combat I wiped out the bloodletters utterly. We did wonder about something. He lost combat with -15. He failed the instability check, and his deamons had a 9 ld normally. Does that mean he takes 15 extra wounds or 7? Since double one always works. We honestly didn't know (it also didnt matter btw).
On the other side of the battle the chariots got massacred. After combat res I had 1 chariot with 1 wound left. So close to being overrun and losing my hierophant next turn.
The plaguebearers vs sphinx + necroknights ended up in my favour by far.Round 3
His magic was once again a fluke. His bloodcrushers destroyed my chariots, but couldn't do anything but stand there. The plaguebearers had some minor victories over the sphinx and knights, making me draw the combat. Luckily I had my crumble resistance with all those constructs.
In my turn I annihilated the plaguebearers and took a few potshots at the bloodcrushers. All he had left at this point was the greater deamon and 4 bloodcrushers.Turn 4
He failed his charge versus my hierotitan and gave up."Next time Tomb Kings! Next timmmmeeee!
Result: Convincing victory in turn 4
Unit of the match: Warsphinx
Thoughts on list in general: I thikn 2 units of 4 knights is a bit overkill. I miss a bunch of infantry. I have a lot of big units, but any dwarf or empire gunline would do easy against that. I am thinking of adding skeletons, or replacing one unit of necroknights with some tomb guard, but 25 then not a horde. What do ya'all think?
PS: Please don't mind my style of writing. I know I can do these quick notes, I cannot do full reports all the time and I do want to write down these notes. So if things are incomplete, just ask for clarification or something. :)
Maglok - May 5, 2012 08:16 PM (GMT)
Alright! Tomorrow I battle the best general I know, a good empire friend of mine. He will be fielding the new empire. I will be fielding an all-comers list. Mainly because I want a kickass generic list.
I made some tweaks from last time. Don't mind the names I give my characters, they are just regular. The list as it stands:
Bakari - Level 4 HLP Nehekharan - Earthing Rod (goes with the 20 archers)
Naeem - Level 1 LP Light - Dispel Scroll (goes with the 10 archers)
Sam-Ta - Necrotect (goes with the TG)
20 Skeleton archers - SB, musician
10 Skeleton archers
4 Chariots - Banner of Eternal Flame, SB
5 Skeleton Horse Archers
40 Skeleton Warriors - Full command
4 Necropolis Knights - SB
30 Tomb Guards - Full command
Warsphinx - Fiery roar
Casket of Souls
Screaming Skull Catapult
Screaming Skull Catapult
Notes on the changes: I removed 4 necroknights and a warsphinx to make room for the tomb guards. I also removed 4 chariots to make room for a 40 warrior block and spend the last few points of that on 5 horsemen scouts, just handy. I also bought a necrotect out of the kinghts/sphinx removed to go with the Tomb Guards.
I basically figured I need some actual blocks of infantry, or my guys are never going to break steadfast. It also gives me more options with the KB of the TG and the scouts from the horsemen and a solid tarpit with 40 warriors.
Plan: Shoot his cannons with my SSCs, I cannot have him shoot my remaining sphinx in turn 1!
SHVAK - May 5, 2012 10:40 PM (GMT)
|His units kept being close to the obelisk and magic resistance + deamon ward saves = 3+ ward saves.|
Remember that his 3+ ward save, boosted by magic resistance, only counters damage from magic spells - in your case those spells being Shem's and Banishment from Light and arguably Skullstorm from Nehek. 5+ ward save against everything else.
Maglok - May 5, 2012 11:13 PM (GMT)
That was indeed true, but it meant I couldn't really cast spells on them effectively OR lob a SSC. :( Sure I had archers, but come on. :) 5+, then 6+ then he had a 4+ ward on the greater demon, which would turn into a 2+ near the obelisk. :)
RejjeN - May 6, 2012 12:34 AM (GMT)
|QUOTE (Maglok @ May 5 2012, 11:13 PM)|
| That was indeed true, but it meant I couldn't really cast spells on them effectively OR lob a SSC. :( |
Magic Resistance ONLY affects Magic, not Magical Attacks or Magic Weapons. Magic. (No, not even miscasts, just purely spells cast by a wizard or bound item)
Maglok - May 6, 2012 12:42 AM (GMT)
Ahh so not SSC? Hm cool :) Noted!
rolandbu - May 6, 2012 02:23 PM (GMT)
some nice paintworks there :-) I like that purple tone on your sphinx
Imotheb - May 6, 2012 02:52 PM (GMT)
How do you use the horse archers? I never ever can do something with them, they die instantly'...
Maglok - May 6, 2012 05:23 PM (GMT)
I use them to divert charges, block charges, etc. Also they are quite capable to take out warmachines. Keep in mind that they can reform as often as they like while moving, thus they can easily get through enemy lines. Less so because of our no-marching thing though.
@Rolandbu: Thanks! The necrosphinx is still in progress.
Alright! I have fought the empire. Here is a battle report and some thoughts:
My list is the one in the previous post.
His list is about this:
General of the Empire
General of the empire on hippogryph (the new big monster thing)
Level 2 shadow
Level 4 life
3 demigryph knights
6 pistoleers (the fast cav shooty ones)
1 hellstorm battery (the one with 3xartillery dice)
I will once again not go into too many details, because gaming it was more important then logging. I did make a buncha pictures that should help illustrate.Pre-game
We fought in the empire, so my opponent brought some terrain. He is my neighbour from downstairs in the flat and thus it was easy to bring.
The terrain was mainly a wyrding well, which would become quite important later on.
Spell wise he got some shadow debuff spells, including the withering. He also got most of the fun lore of life spells, minus the dwellers.
I got speed of light, dessication, vengeance, protection and smiting. In hindsight I REALLY should have traded vengeance (since he wouldnt move much anyway) for the desertwind. A big mistake on my part.Deployment
So he pretty much made a line.
I did a few things very well, and some very bad. For one I ended up placing my necroknights behind my tombguard and sphinx. I don't know how that happened, bad me.
I did put the skeleton horse archers, as scoutes, 12" from his pistoleers, who could then not move towards me with their vanguard move. Brilliant if I do say so myself. He then puts all his guys horizontally so he denies me slipping through.Turn 1
I win first turn. I move up. I have a bad caster phase in which I get nothing off.
I do get a direct hit on his steamtank, putting him on 3 wounds, 7 remaining.
In his turn he shoots my sphinx for 4 wounds with his cannon. He also declared a charge against my chariots (who moved up) with his hippogryph. Swiftstride, short distance, fly, should be fine. He rolls 3 1s. Doh. Lucky me :)
He does shoot a bunch of holes in my line, including 3 out of 4 chariots and 4 out of 5 horsemen archers.Turn 2
A better turn for me. I manage to throw more direct hits on the steamtank.
9 wounds! Darn! He kept on healing it with his lore spells, quite annoying.
I also take out most one of his riflemen units.
I charged my chariot (one remaning after his shooting onslaught)
Now he also had 4 hochland longrifles (2 in riflemen, a master engineer and the steamtank) and he started his offensive. This time he tried to take down Sam-Ta the necrotect, he took one wound and lived.
On the other side of the field my sphinx turns and breaths over the pistoleers. I figured I couldn't do much else or I was going to be shot to pieces with my 4 wounds taken. This is where I should have drank from the wyrding well (which he was able to) and tried to regen the wounds. Drat, another mistake.
I reformed my TG to make space for my necroknights.
The one chariot killed the hellstorm battery. Yay. I then restrain and pivot to block the cannon from shooting.
In his turn this turned out quite fun. He tried to shoot the last chariot away with his riflemen, every hochland that could see him AND his steamtank cannon and failed. The great cannon then quickly loaded all manner of cuttlery in their cannon and grape-shot the chariot away.
His turn saw more shooting at me. He also finished off the sphinx. He charged his hippogryph into the flank of my skeletons. This would take 2 turns for him to get through. Nice.Turn 3-5
Now it got messy, so excuse me for going through this with a bit of a mess. I'll just describe sides of the table from here on.
A overview to get a generic idea of the state of the battle.
Shooting wise I did manage to get the steamtank near the end of the game. I also sucked the life out of his master engineer and great cannon with the casket of souls. Also shot down his pistoleers. A stray SSC shot also got a direct hit on the luminark and killed it outright.
The steamtank about to die. In the back his two wizards. The luminark was there. :P
The game really turned when during his shooting he hochland longrifled my hierophant to death and everything started crumbling. Ouch.
His halberdiers helped out his hippogryph to destroy my 40 skeleton warriors, and won of course. My level 1 lore of light priest got caught and made into a snack by the hippogryph as well.
My hierotitan charged into his riflemen, killed them, overran, and promptly ran off the table. When he came back my enemy had turned his greatswords around to face him. Unlucky for him I moved right past them and cast burning gaze at his level 4 and burned him to a crisp.
In the end I charged my tomb guard into his swordmen, had a round of combat and sceded the game. It was over.
It has to be said he had a lot worse luck then I, but my magic phases were horrible, except one in which I got smiting and protection off.Unit of the match:
Hierotitan all the way. He personally killed the two casters on the enemy side with his burning gazes, helped cast a lot of spells and trampled some riflemen (including a hochland!)Some random shots from pre-game
Empire units looking grim!
WIP catapult!Aftergame thoughts
The skeleton warriors did work tarpitty, but I am not convinced if I do not want more chariots or skeleton horse archers. Opinions?
The necrotect really worked nicely on the tomb guard, but the tomb guard themselves didn't do much. I am not sure about trading a sphinx and 4 necroknights for TG and a necrotect. I do like having proper blocks of infantry though.
The hierotitan stays, the dual SSC kept hitting sooo good, the casket was important. All have to stay.
I do have issues with deployment, I will have to check that out more next time. I will also have to focus a bit more on spells and make sure I get the vengeance against armies that move to me and desertwind for if I move to them.
I do wonder what else I could have done. His infantry was just simply still complete after 5 turns. It was a bit depressing. :)
Maglok - May 9, 2012 08:51 AM (GMT)
This just in. I was made aware that my opponents list was way over 2500pts.
His list was 3247 points due to a spreadsheet mistake. No wonder I lost badly. 747 points more then your opponent might make you win!
We are planning a rematch, since it was a silly mistake that can happen to anyone.
Maglok - July 12, 2012 11:57 AM (GMT)
So the rematch never really happened, shame. He must be chicken.
So I return to my thread. I posted some battle reports, but now I am gearing up to play threebattles for which I could use some ideas!
First of all: 1K vs bretonnia
Opponent: New player, her second game
Second of all: 2.5K vs vampire counts
Opponent: Regular player knows my army habits
Third of all: 2.5K vs dark elves
Opponent: Never played him, has reputation to be good
vs bretonnia I got a few ideas. I am thinking small unit of Tomb Guard among other stuff. Ideas welcome.
vs Vampire Counts I am thinking my usual list and see how it works. Not sure if I want to go death magic or light magic on my caster.
vs dark elves I have absolutely no clue I need your help! Dark Elves a complete unknown for me! Argh!
rolandbu - July 12, 2012 01:08 PM (GMT)
About the dark elves I can vouch for my necropolis knights, chariots, bowmen and catapults as my most reliable units.
The knights I take 6 of them, try to buff them with light. If he goes crossbow heavy, Pha's Protection goes a long way to keep you alive. Speed of light or Birona's are useful too, as they , surprisingly, might be able to hit you first.
The 2 catapults deal with hydras or can whittle down his knights or witch- executioner- black guard- elite. They are still vulnerable to the catapult as they have toughness 3 only. Skeleton bowmen are good, too to deal with shades, harpies, light horse.
Chariots are beautiful against them.
The casket, aside from a wound here or there is not as shining as against other armies, but at least you get power dice.
Tomb Guard and Ushabti were not so much convincing, I am usually met with 40 executioners with ASF bannerbearer. Unless you get off Speed of light or Birona's, or manage to lead them astray with redirectors, you are toast. Knights do bad against these guys, too, but I found them better because of their better movement.
Horse Archers as always useful.
Their magic is awfully powerful. If he comes pn a flying steed with a lord or magician, the catapult may unhorse them, but I tend to have my troubles with those twi choices.
Sphinxes do well against the elves, they don't have access to more than strength 6 for their troops, but beware witch elves.
Arkhan's Pet Pony - July 12, 2012 01:13 PM (GMT)
Hey maglok, nice batreps - quick question: how do people generally feel about you using a necrosphinx as a warsphinx?
Maglok - July 12, 2012 01:34 PM (GMT)
@Rolandbu: But what about the threats they pose? Specific units, I hear nasty stuff about a cauldron of blood?
@Arkhan's Pet Pony: Not a problem, since we are all playing as friends. I do not proxy a necro for a warsphinx if I do anything official or with anyone I do not know. Why do you get problems with it? I also find it a bit sneaky that I'd technically have to get two more warsphinxes. One additional normal one, and then one with a prince in it (I hate magnetizing the options! Though I might do that with a second warsphinx.
rolandbu - July 12, 2012 02:05 PM (GMT)
Besides their awesome magic phase which can pack silly things like occam's mindrazor or violet sun, dark elves are for me a do or die army. They thrive on their superior shooting (multishot, armorpiercing), their mobility and their aggressive gameplay. Eternal hatred racial trait gives them hatred for the first round of combat. This hatred they put to excellent effect on quality attacks (cold onz knights lances Str 6, often complemented by additional attacks through banner), or executioners str 6 greatsword with ASF banner to negate ASL, making them hit on their high initiative. Or they go a path of packing ab insane amount of attacks with corsairs or even more attrocious witchelves, where hatred is great. Witchelves come with poison and the same amount of attacks as corsairs if I remember right. Both units tend to be ... what's it called - furious? (corsairs by taking a banner and witchelves by default, netting them some 3 - 4 attacks by model without considering ranks.
The cauldron of blood is a strict support war machine, very difficult to kill (4+ ward). It conveys on one unit either a 5+ ward, an extra attack or the killing blow ability (corsairs and witchelves like that one a lot). The cauldron conveys stubbornness on some units (execs, witchelves, corsairs), can be the battlebannerbearer, toi. I found ignoring the cauldron my way to deal with it.
A nearly unkillable lord on a pegasus is cery nasty (try to shoot the pegasus away, same if it is ridden by sorceress)
If you succeed in surviving the first round of combat, you are generally doing something right and may live to tell from it :)
Jimmy - July 12, 2012 11:38 PM (GMT)
Go light magic against the VC as the extra perks against undead are too good to pass up.
On the Dark Elves, they're only T3 so drop like flies. Corsairs have good armour against shooting so just be mindful of them. Hydras are pinged with flaming so either get some flaming chariots and/or SSC's.
Keep in mind on the Cauldron of Blood they can't charge you so just ignore it unless you've got nothing better to do, wound it with bowfire and all the usual tricks but don't charge it as they're loaded up with wards/frenzy and poison so will drop things pretty quickly.
Best of luck!
Maglok - July 13, 2012 07:33 AM (GMT)
Ouch eternal hatred? :S
I am a bit doubtful of wheter I should be going to him, or let him come to me now.
rolandbu - July 13, 2012 11:48 AM (GMT)
That depends on the style of your army. Play to your strengths whatever the opponent. Tomb Kings have the necessary tools to overcome dark elves. They, too have their weaknesses (low armour saved except for knights with 2+ and toughness 3) You seemed to enjoy a platstile similar to mine, so go nuts :-)
Their main strength is the awesome punch they can deliver and their magic. I dread a sorceress with death lore on a pegasus sniping my hierophant or purple sunning me. Thank God I am a lucky sun of a bitch, which often helped me out so far :))
You have to choose the right moment to attack. Unfortunately the dark elves often work with more units than we do, so a good general might outmanoeuvre you. One reason why I choose not to wait too long until he has set me up for a good kick in the gonads.
Speed of light and/or Birona's are great to take the sting out of them by a lot. Dropping their strength with dessication or lore of death hexes might be good, too, but maybe not good enough against witchelves who have poison.
What targets should you take out first? It depends on the army you face. Double hydras have a big ! over their head, but maybe another target would be better in some situations.
Maglok - July 16, 2012 10:16 AM (GMT)
We played the first two battles this weekend.
The first was 1K TK vs Bretonnia. It was a nice battle, I will have a report on this up this week, with pictures!
The second was 2.5K vs Vampire Counts. Unfortunately we had to quit in the middle of it because of some outside of the game factors. The amount of rules the game tries to let you remember got to someone and we just called it. I think I was on the winning hand, I will give a few notes on this battle as well, but not much.
This week I am trying to change my armylist for usage against the Dark Elves. I am convinced I want to keep two SSCs I am also going to reduce my archers from 30 to 20. I might put in a second unit of them though. At this point in time my tactic is advance while I keep 1 or two units of archers behind my lines to still shoot him.
Jimmy - July 17, 2012 12:04 AM (GMT)
On the Dark Elves I think allow him to come to you however dictate where you want him to go with either EBTS units or a T8 monster could be of use.
Maglok - July 17, 2012 11:52 AM (GMT)
Here is a quick battle report on the vs Bretonnia 1K match.
High lich priest level 3 (nehekharan)
30 skeleton warriors
20 skeleton archers
20 tomb guard
casket of souls
prophetess level 3 (beasts)
paladin bsb on royal pegasus
12 knights of the realm
20 men at arms
We were playing at a friend without terrain so boxes were a stand in. We threw up few terrain because of the fact that we were trying to keep it simple for her.
She used some LEGO proxy models, especially awesome for the trebuchet. :)Turn 1
I win turn 1 and I advance a little bit, to shoot her archers. 4 die. My warsphinx starts to loop around to threaten her flank in round 2 or 3. I hid him a bit behind the building to dodge trebuchet fire. She used her dispel scroll on a 5,5,6 cast casket that was going to target her trebuchet. Nothing else of note happened.
She moved up her troops so she could charge with her knights next turn. She also shot some of my archers and killed a few skeleton warriors with her trebuchet.Turn 2
I move the warsphinx up further, threatening the rear of the men at arms (with prophetess). I get some buff spells off as well. Casket goes off, but fails to do more then one wound on the trebuchet.
She charges the skeleton warriors, but fails the charge (something like 1,1,2!) the worst of lucks. The knights stumble forward two inches, leaving themselves open for a countercharge in my turn 3. She reforms the men at arms to face the warsphinx (a wise choice). She also hits my skeleton warriors with the trebuchet dead on. About 13 die, impressive. She transforms her prophetess in a dragon (who will not make base contact next turn, sucks)Turn 3
I charge the warsphinx into her men-at-arms. I charge the skeleton warriors in her knights. The warsphinx goes on a rampage and murders a lot of men-at-arms. He leaves 11 alive, thus they have steadfast. She makes her break test. The fight goes on! The knights eat some skeleton warriors, but the skeleton warriors also kill some knights and the combat turns into 1 skeleton crumble for me.
In her turn she charged her paladin on pegasus in the flank of my warsphinx, hoping to be able to kill it that way. Her trebuchet goes wide and in magic she only dispels her dragonform. The knights fail to do much against the skeletons this time. The warsphinx keeps up his assault on the men at arms, even though he took two wounds from the paladin (for a total of 3 wounds). The men-at-arms flee through her archers (who are awesome and stand) while the paladin is killing blowed and the pegasus flees. My sphinx persues, but fails utterly (3 inch).Turn 4
I charge my sphinx into the archers. I move my tomb guard up, if they need to help out the skeletons they will be in place in the last turn. I also get the casket off and the trebuchet dies, and the prophetess takes a wound (I think). The warsphinx proceeds to massacre the archers who flee. I choose to restrain. The knights lose a few, because the skeletons have killing blow this turn due to my incantation of cursed blades. The knights flee, but I don't catch them.
In her turn her entire army is running. The pegasus, archers and prophetess all flee the battle, while the knights rally. (Knights should not flee! For honour!)Turn 5
I charge the knights with the warsphinx and skeletons. They get slaughtered and are caught when fleeing. Good game.Thoughts
This wasn't really a fair fight, but more of a tutorial game for her. We both had a lot of fun so yay!
To come: Thoughts on the cancelled 2.5K.
Anvildude - July 17, 2012 01:56 PM (GMT)
Could the Dragon Prophetess have used "Make Way" to get into B2B with your Warsphinx?
Maglok - July 17, 2012 04:32 PM (GMT)
Hmm I don't know actually. I already find it awkward that there is a funky 50mm base in a 20mm base unit. How would that work? Anyone with more rule knowledge? It wouldn't have mattered btw, but it'd be interesting to know.
Jimmy - July 17, 2012 09:58 PM (GMT)
I was thinking that myself. When she cast it I'm pretty sure the model would have to be placed either side of the unit because of it's different base size.
When you charged I'm pretty sure she could have used the Make Way rule to put the hurt on the Warsphinx.
Maglok - July 19, 2012 08:49 AM (GMT)
@Jimmy: Mhoa, she was the normal horned dragon not the great fire dragon. 6s still. I would still love to know how that would work, making way, because such a base simply does not fit in the 20mm infantry.
Maglok - August 10, 2012 10:10 AM (GMT)
Tomorrow I game versus Skaven. I have made up a tweaked version of my list to accomodate these ratsies. This will be the first match for our league's new season.
I have decided to try out *drumroll* bowshabti, especially now that I have one fully painted up.
It's a 2.5K match.
Bakari, lvl 4 nehekharen, earthing rod
Naeem, lvl 2 death, dispell scroll
20 skeleton archers (lvl 4 here) - SB, banner of eternal flame
40 skeleton warriors - FC
4 chariots - SB + M, banner of swiftness
10 skeleton archers (lvl 2 here)
5 skeleton horse archers
Warsphinx - Fiery roar
8 bowshabti! - FC
4 necropolis knights - SB
2 screaming skull catapults
This is what's going on in my head at the moment. I am fully expecting a screamingbell, doomwheel and abomination. The abomination oughta be down soon with the catapults and the flaming on the bowshabti (I will be trying to get smiting off on them). I might also use the burning gaze on the hierotitan.
The doomwhel I hope to take out with the casket or catapults early on. It could wreak havoc on my multi-wound units. I can also try to match it up with my skeleton tarpit.
The screamingbell is trickier to deal with. I think I have to get heads on with them. Knights and perhaps bowshabti in melee. Chariot impact hits will also whittle the unit away. The sphinx's killing blow crew could pick a grey seer off it.
I also aim to dodge any slave units if at all possible. At least slow them down with 'tricks'. Perhaps our -movement spell. :)
I would love for this list to have a necrotect with all the constructs around, but I just couldn't fit him in pointwise. Food for thought.
I do have a question: I see people saying the banner of the undying legion is awesome on Ushabti, or banner of eternal flame. Ushabti cannot have a magic banner according to my armybook. Do peeps mean through a tomb herald? That seems a lot of investment to me.
So any comments?
Sume - August 10, 2012 10:48 AM (GMT)
Ya a tomb herald. I have not tried out a magic banner yet myself. Hang the BRB back in your main lines, then when the Ushabti are about to take the charge is when you bring it in, or if you have say the flame banner, you move him in there to get the flaming attacks. With that banner, I would move him out when the Ushabti are about to take a charge so you don't have to worry about giving up the standard to attacks.
Krael - August 10, 2012 01:12 PM (GMT)
Maybe You bought a herald? otherwise, you can't put banner of flame on simple archers! No matter though, because that banner should go to your chariots anyway. flaming impacthits eat hellpits (it's called 'surprise barbecue' :P).
further, if you see a fight lord, be prepared to spirrit leech him asap, because he might very well carry the 'blade of killing either a sphinx or 4 ushabti per turn'.
further the lists looks fine. don't put your ushabti behind something, and you'll find they're excellent meat grinders against that army as well.
Maglok - August 10, 2012 07:06 PM (GMT)
Oops yeah it was meant to go on the chariots, I moved itr around a bit and worked with a herald then decided against it and put it on the wrong unit and just blankly copied it to here. Stupid me.
Oh I might worry about assassins now that I think about it, thanks for the heads up Krael.
KingRonin - August 11, 2012 12:53 AM (GMT)
I played a friend of mine in a 2500 game who brought a hellpit, doomwheel, screaming bell and plague furnace. Our movement spell is perfect for screaming bell and plague furnace because it makes them take dangerous terrain tests in the same way as a chariot (roll 4+ or take D6 wounds).
The flame banner on the chariots are great vs. Hellpit but u better kill it on the charge cause they won't survive 2 combats. It's safer to have it in the archers but in order to make since of it worth the extra points of buying a tomb herald u need to have at least 50 archers which is what I did. With getting smiting off I pushed the delete button on whatever unit I liked least within 24". Also the archers are very important with holding up the plague furnace cause if u kill enough infantry pushing it, it slows to a stop and u can deal with it when u feel like it.
Here's a little trick I used... I put the deathmask on my level 4 priest who was in my big block of archers. I know my opponent likes to send in a hoard of slaves to tie things up so... I let him. When his WS2 slaves came into combat with my WS5, frenzied archers with hatred (thanks to rhamnotep and a TP) they test for fear and take their break test without their general's inspiring presence. After healing back a few skellies I go back to business deleting units with arrows without ever loosing a turn of shooting.
Also, the only animated contruct I took was a unit of 6 nek knights so they automatically get to use rhamnotep's armorsave reroll at 3+.
Maglok - August 11, 2012 08:24 AM (GMT)
Thanks for the tips, I will keep them in mind for sure.
We have a no-special-chars rule. Is about the only rule.
Off to play now.
Maglok - August 13, 2012 08:43 AM (GMT)
Alright so the battle was saturday. We had a lot of fun.
I don't really have the time to do longer battle reports, so I think I will just do some highlights in this thread and some thoughts afterwards. Hopefully pictures will speak for itself.
So we rolled battle for the pass (actually watchtower first, but they did not really want to play that, which was fine with me), which favoured my shooty over their shooty anyway.
Things that happened were them losing all their magic after shooting in my 2nd turn. Then again I did not roll more then a 7 on winds of magic all game (4 turns).
The sphinx and hierotitan killed 4 swarms. The sphinx then mopped the floor with 35 clanrats, taking 3 wounds. Once again he proves to be a core infantry killer.
The bowshabti performed mhoa mhoa. The shooting wasn't that good, though they did do 3 wounds on the doomwheel (with 2 more from a spitir leech it was down for the count in turn 2). What I was really impressed with was their melee ability. 4 wide, 2 deep. 4 attacks each on first row, 3 on 2nd row, 1 extra from champion (due to smiting all of this) resulted in 29 attacks and 4 stomps. They tore through 20 plaguemonks in 1 round easy. Nice. In hindsight I should have deployed them more in the middle, but I was really afraid of the doomwheel on the far left.
The snakes helped when due to a mistake of mine my hierophant unit got reared (20 archers). Only two snakes touched, but it was enough to killing blow his BSB and then win the combat against all odds. That was quite important, or the hierophant could crumble. That same combat then turned into tertris. I reformed to face the clanrats with the snakes, slaves charged in the rear of the hierophant unit, and then I charged the sphinx, giant and skeleton warriors around the slaves. See picture. What a mess.
My artillery was on the ball, a few hits, a few misfires, but overall worth their points. Casket was awesome as usual. When the catapult(s) got a direct hit on some clanrats his generals unit decided to flee as well, which was then caught by the necroknights. Didn't even have to fight those dudes.
Horsearchers failed to do anything this game, don't quite know what to do with em. They hid behind a tower, then moved in front of it and got charged (delaying a clanrat unit by a turn, but meh). There was just no room to do anything fun with them.
Chariots killed 6 ratogres with the help of the hierotitan (a caster giant, but still a giant).
Their weapon teams and missle fire was fairly ineffective.Pictures!
Deployment in progress. The horse archers were not set up yet.
The skaven hordes. There was a doomwheel out of view as well.
Sphinx and giant about to make rat bits out of some swarms.
The chariots charged ratogres. The tetris in the middle starts. The bowshabti kick giant rat ass.
After 1 round of sphinx killing rats, 21 or so casualties. Steadfast though, (d)rat!
Close-up on the tetris.
Overview shot near the end. Notice my proxied bowshabti!
Slaves cornered on 4 sides.My mistakes
I did not evacuate my death priest from the archer unit that was about to get charged by the clanrats. Secondly I had my archers with my hierophant behind that, all ready to be charged. Stupid, stupid.
Once more: My hierophant was poorly positioned! BAD ME.Their mistakes
Storm banner versus a TK player is not all that awesome. They also put all their big ass elite stuff in the back, which is ok... but in this case it meant all the not big ass stuff fled and broke and was destroyed in front of them, eventually making most of their bad ass stuff flee.
They also had some issues sorting target priorities. Put your power on one thing at a time, they kept switching, resulting in me losing 5 horse archers and 10 skeleton archers with a lvl 2 death priest all game. (Full units that is)Aftermatch thoughts
I really have to take ushabti more often. :)
Jimmy - August 13, 2012 09:13 PM (GMT)
Well done on the game, good job.
Maglok - October 5, 2012 09:53 AM (GMT)
Been neglecting the actual playing of warhammer a bit, so I set up my next league match asap. That is, tonight.
I have been wanting to try out bowshabti some more, so here goes. This list is vs a 2.5K empire player.
- Level 4 (Nehekharan) - Earthing Rod
- Level 2 (Death) - Dispel Scroll
- 20 archers - SB, Banner of Eternal Flame
- 40 warriors - Full command
- 4 chariots - SB, musician
- 5 horse archers
(exactly 25% :P)
- Warsphinx - Fiery roar
- 8 bowshabti - Full command
- 4 knights - SB
- 3 stalkers
Basically this list has a lot of things to deal with and I hope he will be dividing his shooting power amongst all the different threats.