Title: Tk Vs. Ogres, 2150 Pts.
Description: Rough Matchup.
Crackbone - February 25, 2005 12:08 PM (GMT)
I have had TK for about 8 months now, and have finally eclipsed the initial learning curve and have become pretty adept at playing them. Now. I have a matchup this weekend vs Ogres and quite frankly it scares me a bit.
No auto breaks to fear. No Killing Blow. Sickening numbers of attacks from the Ogres that will crumble blocks like crazy.
Gorgers coming out of the backfield turns 2 and 3 to wreck the casket and catapults(unbreakable, killing blow, immune to psyc)
Due to small units they can have some gaping holes in their attack lines.
As far as I can tell, LD is shaky. 7s and 8s mostly.
Butchers really don't get the OK player many dispel dice to combat the magic phase of the TK.
Now , I need some help as I cannot seem to get a list I feel confident about. Any clues, any experiences?
Your help is much appreciated.
draco - February 25, 2005 12:14 PM (GMT)
I think that even if they are immune to fear they do autobreak if you outnumber them,not pretty sure though.I haven't played against them but i think you can beat them with your catapults firing twice per turn.Good luck... :(
Crackbone - February 25, 2005 12:49 PM (GMT)
No, since they cause fear, they are immune to fear.
They don't fear me, since they cause it. Yeah the catapault is a good thing and is definately there, however, I am need of some good solid advise on what to do with the rest of the army. :P
draco - February 25, 2005 12:59 PM (GMT)
Deploy hard hitting units (ushabti,scorpions) and use smiting to cause more damage.If they don't have good magic defense you can use a casket (but i think the catapults will be more effective).Last but no least,if you want them to fear you use something to cause terror (a giant or the mask).I hope that i gave you some ideas. ;)
gee - February 25, 2005 02:01 PM (GMT)
OK really suffer against shooting.
Bulls have a save of 6+.
Magic wise, OK are in the same sort of league as TK, with multiple low casting spells. Also pay attention to the secondary affects of their spells. the +1T isn't as scary as the Stubborn attribute it also adds. The MR(2) spell also adds regeneration which is a pain, so use the SC with its flaming ammo to counter.
Butchers are tough mages, so look at scorpions for mage hunting rather than carrion.
Bone giants are best left at home because of the number of high strength attacks.
Ushabti are well suited for combat against Ogres, as thats what they are pretty much designd to do. Hitting on 3+ wounding 2+ striking first or at the same time, they can stand toe-to-toe and have a good chance of walking away winners.
Crackbone - February 25, 2005 02:21 PM (GMT)
I would go casket, catapault, but my fear here is that those gorgers are going to negate the casket and catapault after turn 3.
The only thought on a Bone Giant is the fact he is another hammer unit that can get the job done, however, he is awfully expensive and I can see him getting dropped.
The Chariots are a hammer of sorts, however, I have to be careful with them as there is STR 7 flying all around the table.
I would think the best option would to be drop 2 catapaults on the table in the rare slots, and make sure I have enough skeletons to hold up the ogres in combat. I will have to be really picky about where those Ushtabi engage, as a frontal charge from ogres doesn't seem like a fun endeavor.
Only problem? I am going to have to find a screaming skull catapault over the weekend somewhere. :P I think that is my best option though, quite frankly.
Any other ideas? Keep them coming, I would really like to walk away from this tough matchup with a win.
Joris - February 25, 2005 03:09 PM (GMT)
How about a casket of souls?
I don't play OK, but what I've heard it must be pretty effective.
Low LD, Low on dispel dice, and low unit sizes!
btw, chariots don't kill T4 units.
Crackbone - February 25, 2005 03:21 PM (GMT)
Chariots aren't a bad call as while they aren't as effective against T4 units, they do allow you to create havoc in the backfield. A flank/rear charge to a unit is usually enough, especially with small ogre unit sizes, to negate any attacks back, and can outnumber. That's enough to get a break and rundown. Mount a Tomb Prince in there with the Icon or Chariot of Fire, things get nastier.
They aren't meant to go straight into an enemy, unless that enemy is Saurus Cav. (I did a number on them turn 1 last game I played. 8" move, 16" charge during the magic phase. :P (Double King, LHP and blew the Jar.) )
My problem with the casket is twofold in this matchup.
1. Gorgers. - Turn 3 they are going to manhandle the priest and the guards. If he takes 2, which I would imagine he would, that's going to put a hurting on the item.
2. The ability for the OK to get Magic Resistance quite easily. OK spells are usual combo spells. The spell I am speaking about( can't remember the name) I believe gives them Magic R (2) and regeneration. That effectively negates the casket.
So I am probably dealing with a eaten casket turn 2. That has only allowed a negative 1 to cast. Dunno.
I do appreciate the comments and want them to keep coming.
I really believe this is the roughest matchup for TK as the inability to break the units with fear is an issue. The ogres are really suited for this game. I have to make serious choices, and they have to be right ones to win.
Wandering Dead - February 25, 2005 05:11 PM (GMT)
What about using terror to cause fear as in the deathmask item? Or are OK immune to psychology?
Driazine - February 25, 2005 05:40 PM (GMT)
maneater are immune to psychology (i think). to guard the casket and cos i would use a unit of guys with a tp, guys with a good weapon skill. they might be able to kill the man eaters. use 3 units of ishabti and 1 ts or 2 and t2 (whatever you prefer and can afford).also use lots of arrow guys and possibly khalida as you can give your guys poison. the tyrant will be harder to kill (if he takes him). use a kind of combat resolution unit or multiple charges. this should not be to hard as you should have a few lp and one with a flying cloak. you will be able to outmanouvre your opponent easily. also take a few dispell scrolls. another thing is that if you see that you will get charged in the next turn then you should walk as close as possible to the chargers to avoid getting impact hitted.
plasmapuff - February 28, 2005 01:07 PM (GMT)
OK (pun intended ;) ), here's a few things that I found worked against them after playtesting with and fighting against them.
1) Keep a unit ready for gorgers, unles you want them rampaging through your line. This was one of the reasons I included a swarm to free up my TS. The good thing though, is that they cant charge when they turn up, giving you a turn to respond.
2) Target the big units with SSCs. Not only is it easier to hit, but you do more damage, getting rif of the unit that kills your blocks on the charge,
3) Casket is wasted due to MR2 spell.
4) Try to charge instead of being charged. The impact hits actually hurt. Try to out manevure and flank them. YOu should outnumber them (I do anyway).
5) Have lots of dispel dice (for obvious reasons). A useful if not risky tactic is to let the butcher kill himself. Dispel the healing spell and then finish him off before combat starts, with a charhing TS or something. Remember Dead wizards die along with any RIPs they had in play.
6) Try to break through specific sections of his line. Units like 3 chariots and a prince can probably chrage and break a unit of 3 orgres. The same can be said for supporting units of gnoblas.
7) Lure weak stuff like scrap launchas away with carrion/cavlarly swarm. Make sure they have to charge and alling your unit into some bushes/suitably big mountain. Terrain + scraplauncha= dead gnoblas and rusty scrap metal.
8)Always challenge tyrants to stop them killing rank and file...
Besides form that have lots of luck and tell us how you do...
Ps. moved to specific armies
8) MArch block:Delay comabt as much as possible