Hey, I know it's rather early to start asking for help before the book's even out but I figured now we've all had a good look at the rumoured rules I might be able to get some help.

My partner collects Brettonians and so they are the army I've been trying to beat using the new rules. Suffice to say it hasn't been going my way.
Two coach loads of 12 Brettons smashing into your face seems to go through anything in a turn.
I can't seem to find a nice unit to hit back with?

The only thing I can really think of using is a tomb guard unit to the flanks, but it's hard to position them when nothing gets held up for even a turn.

Any advice is much appreciated!

Mmm asking advice when the book isn't even released... nice :P !

Well first off brets have good armor saves and are good on the charge. So best to take some things that can handle those armor saves. I believe the new book handles this pretty good with the following:
- Stalkers (no save allowed)
- Knights (killing blow, s5 poison = -2 modifier)
- Casket of souls (no saves allowed not sure though)
- Bone giant bow (s6 = -3 modifier)
- Ushabti ( s6 = -3 modifier)
- Tomb Guard (killing blow)
- Kings/Princes
- Magic with 5+ wards (for holding down), killing blow, vengeance (decrease movement for potential failed charge)

So if you want to keep them where they are then get bigger skeleton units. If that doesn't work you could use some other tactics.

You could use sacrificial units to divert their knights. To do this place the unit that will be sacrificed as close as possible to the knights sothat he will have to charge the sacrificial unit or sit there wasting a turn. Place that unit at an angle that would make the knights overrun into nothing and have some can-opening unit nearby that can charge his knights the next turn. So he charges your sacrificial unit and either overruns and not hitting any other of your units or he reforms. This would result in you being able to charge him, this way he will not receive the +2 str for lances which will be a huge difference.

Hope that will help you a little bit

Thanks! That helps a lot! I shall try again tomorrow with some of those. :D
I unfortunately didn't roll the 5+ ward save in my last game. :( I also had terrible luck. I got loads of PD but the first turn my first spell was double ones. Second turn, a one and a two for my first spell. >_<

I reckon you could get a lot of joy with a horde of skeletons and a well protected king/prince, then cast the killing blow spell on these guys and you should be able to break through all that armour.

Generally if you can keep a large unit of bretonnians in combat after the first round you'll win out eventually. So decent sized blocks with some good flankers should do the trick...

That's what I thought, works for my WoC, but I just didn't have enough skellys. >_< Unit of 50 just vanished...
She has an annoying habit of hitting directly with her trebuchets, kills 10+ skellys. Might try a larger block of skellys next time, tomb guard and a unit of the Necroknights.

This is _precisely_ my fear with the army. Magic goes badly? Auto(nearly)-lose.

Never speak of such things again, lest I lose all hope.


:)

I agree with chameleon. If you can't take a bret charge on the nose and hold for a turn, you have to make sure they don't get that favorable charge. So get units of 5ish fast cav or even a single swarm base or similar. Put them right in front of the knights at an angle like so.

kkk
kkk
kkk
kkk

.....s
....s
...s
..s
.s

Now, either they charge and are at some wonky angle relative to your battleline or they have to figure out some other way to deal with you (magic and shooting) but it will take extra turns which you can put to good use.

If they do charge, they will destroy the fast cav and have two options. Either overrun, in which case they will be much farther forward and exposing a flank for you to countercharge. Or they will reform, but that's ok. If they reform, you will have the option to charge them in your turn since they will be much closer to your lines. It may not be a flank charge but they lose the lance bonus and I'm pretty sure they don't get all those extra attacks from the rear guys.

So that is how I would deal with that. And without having to rely on magic either, gasp!

lol, I wouldn't worry, it's not the book's fault! I don't usually take magic, but with the cool lore I went overboard and spent more points than I usually would on it. ^_^ So when it didn't work? I had way too many useless points.

@Blackthorne. I'm spoilt having previously collected WoC. You don't need to think so much! It's what I like about the TKs.

That makes sense. I guess I messed up on having too straight a line. Not expecting my skellys to collapse so quickly I had a flank charge set which she over-ran out of. Something like you're advising is good as having them out front means the overrun will take them somewhere I want, rather than behind my lines. Thanks all for the advice!

It sounds wierd but how much ranged do you have?? (Ideas to improve chances using old stuff, hard to give advice for units I haven't tried)

Ranged wins almost ALL my fights with bret, there archers are... well pesant crap (though I will admit my opponent likes grail knights much more then Bret stone lobber), and no matter how awsome a 2+ save sounds, you try making it 7+ times in one go... Like u said units are only 12 strong, at max, and leadership 8 leaves a bit to shall we say be desired.

Catapult for possible leadership tests is nice (not tried the new one, the old book I broke at least 1 unit a game, and when they run they lose ward save so totaly worth it even if they rally.)

Archers (one unit doesn't cost much and should kill at least 2-3 knights before CC, and thats almost or more then half the cost of your unit 48-72points)

Other then that, yeah you need to redirect there charge line. Carrion would do well here, can get to odd positions fast, cheapish for small unit (not ment to survive, ment to break there battle lines) and if they ignore it, you can get a nice and easy flank charge (fly speed 10 is wonderful in our army.)

sorta on topic, how would yall recommend dealing with the fey bizzach inside a unit of grail knights/guard(the rare choice)? 2+ armor, 5+ ward, and MR3 is pretty ghey.

Umm, I would shoot it... lol it sounds silly but I almost always get a wound or two per a phase and at 38 points a peice, they can't afford to lose many before you start dancing with joy.

Until she casts regrowth at +6 to cast.

She gets one attempt at the spell - if she is life - and if she knows it - and if I don't dispel it. Not worried about regrowth, it has NEVER altered the outcome of a game by itself.

Just focus fire them. Dump archers and stalkers into the unit and you will probably force through a few wounds (especially with stalkers, no armour save is great!). Them if they are spending all their time casting regrowth you can either try to dispel it or let it through meaning there are fewer other spells coming at you. Also, the casket is nice. The MR makes it more difficult to be sure (especially if they have the blessing), but not impossible. Again, forcing them to take enough saves means they will fail some.

A necrosphinx might actually work too with KB helping to get through the armour (and high strength) and not taking way too many return attacks.

Colssus with great weapon might work it would allow no armour saves

Sphinx are made to take cav charges, but ideally charge them. A lance of 8 grails (+damsel) has 14 grail knight attacks, 28/3 hits, 28/18 wounds. 1-2 wounds. The sphinx has 5 attacks, 5/2 hits, 25/12 wounds, which the saves will vary on. But you should be able to get a wound or so through, in this worst case scenario. Depending on the specifics, you stand a good chance of living through the charge. Ideally, you damage them a bit before hand. Other knights will have less of an impact.

Tomb Guard can do it, but that doesn't necessarily mean they should. You could bring 2 princes, 2 heralds. Sit the heralds in the front rank and let them absorb a charge, then reform/move the princes up to grind the knights down.

As for the enchantress herself...get to her as quick as possible to minimize the effectiveness of her magic. Be in combat.

Note that the grail guardians (her 2nd unit of grail knights) come out of the lord slot. So to bring them, you have to be playing a massive game, as she is 500+ pts by herself.

Good point - so if this is happening you should have plenty to deal with them. And just like everything else in the army they can easily get overwhelmed with str 3-4 attacks becuase point wise there arn't alot of them (Ranged and CC types).

I think that necropolis knights would work pretty well as long as you're not the one being charged. Maybe take a charge and hold with big skelly unit, and have the Necroknights come up from behind with EBTS? The strength 5 poison from the serpent and the killing blow from the rider would be great for dealing with knights.

actually, masses of skeletons might not be a bad idea. skeletal warriors should make an awesome tar pit against brets, as they really dont have tons of attacks when you think about it, but the ones they do have are at pretty high strength. so all you have to do is take 2 units and let them get saturated in the enemies' charge and they will still be alive and well- if you have 40 of them in a block killing 10 of them really doesnt matter and after brets do their first charge, all of their other charges suck because it will only be at str 3 or 4 from now on.

if possible you definetly want to get kanopi and cursed blades incantation. kanopi will be useful to get rid of all the RIP spells they are putting out and killing blow would be uber if you put it on some skeles in combat with bretts.

edit: getting incantation of vengance would be great too...making a large unit of grail knights take dangerous terrain checks AND reducing their movement for a turn is awesome, so magic should be a useful tool against them

Played a few vs. Bretts. I find it rather basic maybe because it suffers from having an old book.

A lot have already been said.

Strengths: high armour, high strength on the charge. I find the pegasus knights good against us and of course the trebuchet. OK magic. Cheap good characters and ability to build very good fighting characters especially in challeges. OK core ability. The "free" ward safe.

Weaknesses: espensive wounds, few atttacks on lances, especially after charge but also often on the charge. Ranks in lances are often three wounds a piece. A bit clumsy to manuovre.

As mentioned killing blow ignores high amour paid for as standard. They often hate big units with many cheap wounds and ranks due to lack on attacks. Often loose their ranks after a few rounds. Redirecters work. Other Trickers Shard but maybe one should not go for fighting characters against Brets. Archers are not that with the high armour. Warriors with HW-S work ok.

DK:1-NL:0 :)

-E