I'll be getting in the rubber match of my three game series against Wood Elves tomorrow. Usually I post my list the morning of the game, but I had a moment so I thought I'd post the list a little early.

He did well against me last week, so I don't expect he'll change much this week.

I, on the other hand, am making several changes. Let me know what you think. It's still pretty much an all-comers list, so if it looks like it could be tweaked to take on Woodies, you're right - but I won't make changes for that purpose.


Tomb Kings Army List - 2197pts

1 L2 Nehek Liche
1 Necrotect
1 Prince - Tricksters Helm, Great Weapon

5 Horse Archers
5 Horse Archers
10 Archers
6 Chariots - FC, Flaming Banner

41 Tomb Guard - FC
1 Warsphinx with Breath Weapon
3 Carrion

1 Hierotitan
1 Colossus with Extra Weapon
1 Colossus with Extra Weapon

Your prince has 60 pts of magic items.

Crap. Thanks. He had a great weapon until about 5 minutes before posting this. My head is not on straight. Will change back to great weapon.

Your best list so far, lets see how dual colossus go. Good luck!

+1 with Ramhotep.
Hope u will rock with this list

Your list looks interesting, my only concern is that the 40 tombguard could easily be avoided and the woodelf shooting could pick of points from the big monsters. Although the tombguard are a good point sink, I would get rid of a few and replace the hirotitan with a necrosphinx, which can give you that early turn threat, which can't be ignored, why the rest of your army, which is slower, to get in.

However, I like the fact there are lots of multiple threats which need to be blocked, but I think a flyer will give you the edge as it can't be redirected like the rest of your army can.

Thanks for the thoughts Mark. Some comments:

==> Yeah, that's my concern as well. It's why I've not brought them for a long time. I've argued that point with others too. We'll see!

=> The Titan stays for now since I have been spending waaaaay too much time making one. I'll be damned if I'm not going to use him now.

I do tend to use the Necro as you've suggested, with mixed results. At higher points, he'll be back in.

Why not spend 15 pts on a +1M banner on the tomb guard?

The game is now over. Report coming later (post game bar now), but see if you can guess the album name that fits. It's a Gorgoroth album.

It's got to be destroyer? (for you I hope!)

Wood Elf Army List
Treeman Ancient
Noble with Annoyance and Sword of Battle
Noble BSB
L3 wizard

9 Wardancers

Treeman

20 Glade Guard - flaming banner
28 Eternal Guard - FC
28 Eternal Guard - FC


Pre-game & Deployment

Spells
Me: Protection, Skullstorm
Him: Earthblood, Shield of Thorns, Awakening of the Woods



Hills are dark green, forests are grey (free Woodie forest is on left), buildings are orange.

From left to right, me:
Carrion, Titan, Colossus, Colossus, bowmen behind the colossi, Tomb Guard with all three characters, chariots, and the two scouting horse archer units on the far right, pointed at his Wardancers.

Him:
Treeman, Eternal Guard 1 with BSB, archers with wizard, treeman ancient, dancers partly in the woods (rolled up a Venom Thicket), Eternal Guard behind dancers containing general.


He went first.

Any guesses?

I'm guessing a win to the Tombies, based purely on the presence of two large-ish units of Eternal Guard making up an enormous portion of his army.

Can your Horse Archers and Chariots hold up his ATM, WD and EGuard?

Can your HT and NC's beat his other TM and EG?

How many (if any) of your TG make it across the board?

Can you get a SS off against all those juicy T3 bodies?

These are the question that we need answered before we know if the answer to the rubbertree vs the desert road.

Good morning ladies and gentlemen. Here we go:

Turn 1 - Wood Elves
Movement: When the Dancers deployed in the woods, we discovered they are a Venom Thicket. To start the game they advanced up, taking no damage. The Eternal Guard Unit #2 (EG2 henceforth) followed behind, losing 6 models and putting a wound on the general.

Magic: Regeneration on the archers, fixing the wound on the general. Thorns on Eternal Guard #1 (EG1 - the unit on the left from my view) rolled an 18 to cast. I rolled a 20 to stop it.

Shooting: His archers dropped two of my Tomb Guard (TG).

Turn 1 - Glorious Masters of The Desert Empire
Movement: The chariots declare - and completed! - a charge against the Dancers. The Colossi and Titan swung up into a cross-charge position to prepare for the advancing EG1 block. The archers advanced behind them in order to get range on some targets. The carrion advanced and angled in toward the treemen, preparing to get in his way next turn an delay him so that the Titan/Colossi brigade could go after EG1 unmolested if that unit opted not to go toward the TG. Everyone was in a very nice position.

Magic: Dice were 4,3. I was about 16 inches away from EG1 with my TG+wizard. Pretty much a prefect chance for Skullstorm. If it made it to him, yay, if not it would at least present issues for his movement and allow my Titan+Colossi Brigade to do their thing. Casting value is 15+. My caster was level 2. That'a a 13 needed, so 4 dice was the minimum for a likely success. I picked up my 4 dice, plus 1d3 for the Titan being nearby. Result was 3,4,6,6 + 2 on bonus from Titan. Total Power. Ok, I thought, I can deal with that. Surely I would not blow up my Hierophant with his own Skullstorm two games in a row, right? I rolled to see how far the Storm travelled and got a 10! The thing went 20 inches up, plowing into 17 EG1, killing 11. Nice! I then rolled my miscast and got a Cascade. Large S10 template on my caster and the TG. 12 guys were hit, plus the caster and the Necrotect. The Necrotect passed his Look Out Sir, but the wizard did not. The death toll on the TG was 11. I then rolled to see what happened on the Cascade and lost my Hierophant to the warp.

With the magic phase at and end, it was time to Crumble. One unit of horse archers died completely. The chariots took 4 wounds, meaning their impact hits on the War Dancers would now drop from S5 to S4.

One spell cast, 11 dead enemies, 18 dead friends, including the main man.

Shooting: The horse archers killed two EG2. The bowmen killed 3 EG1.

Close Combat: The chariots did 15 (!!!) impact hits to the 9 Dancers, doing 10 wounds. I noted that it would have been 13 wounds at S5. He had the 4+ ward going, and lost 6 models. He swung and did a single wound to the chariots. After impact hits, I had only two chariots in contact, leaving me with 8 S4 rider attacks and 4 S3 horse attacks vs his 3 remaining Dancers. This was going well. I knew I would lose the chariots eventually, but I figured I was going to blow through the Dancers, slam into the EG2 unit doing a pile of wounds, and be in good shape after the trade. This in mind, I swung my crew and horse attacks, but did no further damage. No single die rolled above a 2. OK, no problem. He would break, I would chase, life would be good. He did break. He rolled a 10 to run on 2 dice. I rolled a 9 on 3 dice picking the best 2. The Dancers escaped, but I did hit the EG2 unit.


Turn 2 - Treacherous, Frail, Nose Picking Woodies
Movement: His Ancient charged the flank of the chariots, contacting the champion.
He rallied the Wardancers. Other stuff shuffled around a bit.

Magic: Dice 5,2. Earthblood on the bowmen. Two attempts at treesinging were dispelled.

Shooting: His archers killed 3 TG.

Combat: 9 impact hits became 5 dead EG2. I challenged. He accepted with his General, dropping 4 EG and the Ancient out of combat unless he could kill the Chariot Champion at his Initiative step. He couldn't. After all the attacks were rolled (I did no damage with my crew or horses), I had won the combat by 1. EG2 failed the break check twice and ran through the Venom Thicket, losing 2 models. I could not chase as I was still pinned in place by the Ancient.


Turn 2 - Remnants of a Decaying, Yet Still Glorious, Realm
Movement: Crumble time. The Titan sustained 3 wounds, the remaining Horse Archer unit took 1, and the perfectly positioned carrion took 5.

The Horse Archers backed off, staying in bow range to eliminate the Dancers, but out of their charge range. No other movements of consequence, just minor repositioning.

Magic: 2,1. Spirit Leech on his Treeman resulted in no damage.

Shooting: 4 shots at the Dancers did no damage. 10 shots on EG1 also did nothing.

Combat: The Ancient ripped the unit down to a single chariot.


Turn 3 - Effeminate, Bark Rutting, Stick Lovers
Movement: EG2 rallied. EG1 and other units retreat. At this point my opponent commented that he has the game in the bag if he just makes sure to not engage anything.

Magic: Dice 6,2 + 1 channel for him. Treesinging #1 goes through. #2 goes through on a 4 (I rolled three dice to dispel and got 1,1,1). #3 is dispelled.

Shooting: Shots did no damage to TG.

Combat: The Ancient did no damage to the chariot. He had flank. I had a banner. Tie.


Turn 3 - Idols of Bone and Stone
Movement: Crumble - 2 dead Horse Archers, dead carrion, Colossus #1 takes a wound.

Necrolith Colossus 1 (NC1) charges EG1. They flee. NC1 lurches forward.

The TG advance to make sure there is pressure being applied. Their four inches takes them into the left-central woods, which turns out to be another Venom Thicket, killing 2 of the 3 models that made it into the woods.

Magic: Dice 3,2. Leech on 5 dice gets a 14. He dispels on a 15.

Shooting: Bow on bow action drops a woodie. The Horse Archers do no damage to the last of the Dancers.

Combat: The Ancient picks his teeth clean with the splintered remains of the last chariot.


Turn 4 - Soulless Fairy Fiends
Movement: EG1 is 9 inches from the board edge. They fail to rally! The flee 3 inches. No other meaningful movement.

Magic: Dice 6,4. Singing #1 on Total Power kills 3 TG. Singing #2 is dispelled. Singing #3 kills 2 more TG.

Turn 4 - Vengeful Killers of the Undeserving of Life
Movement: Crumble put 2 more wounds on NC1 and 1 more TG dies.
NC1 charges the fleeing EG1, but fails, moving up 3 inches.
TG back up out of the woods. They would not make it to the enemy, could not clear the woods at M4 with no marching, and it was clear that the opponent had no intention of going anywhere that the TG could apply pressure to. In retreating, 2 more TG died to the Venom Thicket's poisonous nastiness.

Magic: Dice 5,5. The treeman was now out of Leech range so I unleashed a Shem. 19 vs 9, it went off. 2 wounds got through his armor, which doubled to 4 wounds since it counts as flaming. With my remaining dice, I dispelled the Thorns that had been place on EG1 at some point.

Shooting: No damage to anyone, including those last few Dancers.


Turn 5 - Dancing, Flitting, Dorks
Movement: EG1 rally. Archers do a swift reform. Other stuff shuffles.

Magic: Dice 6,3. Thorns up on EG1 (12 casting vs 10 dispel - on 4 dice). Singing #1 stopped. Singing #2 goes through.

Shooting: Archers do no damage to NC1.


Turn 5 - Shining Paragons of a Time Long Lost
Movement: Crumble kills NC1.
I had been in position to charge with the Titan, NC1 and NC2. I figured two could make it and one would fail. Crumble left me with two of them. The Titan failed to make his charge, but NC2 made it.

Magic: Dice 5,2 +1 channel for him. 6 dice at Shem's got me a 15. He rolled a 22 to stop it and keep his Treeman alive. Thorns does a wound to NC2.

Shooting: His bows kill 3 of my bows.

Combat: Get ready to taste Colossal, Unstoppable Assualt, pesky Woodies! Before I could swing, he made his attacks and did a wound to the Colossus. I put 2 of attacks on the BSB and 3 into the unit. I hit the BSB once, and the unit twice. I failed to wound (got a 1) the BSB, and did one wound to the unit (rolled a 1 on the other hit). The Unstoppable Assault kicked in a did another wound. Then the Unstoppable Assault stopped. All was not lost, though, as I still had Thunderstomp to go. It did one wound. The elves won the combat, but not by enough to kill the Colossus.


Turn 6 - Sneaky, Smirking, Daisy Eaters
Movement: Nothin.'

Magic: Dice 5,3. I was going to dispel his Thorns at its base value, but instead he opted to stop the spell and re-cast it. He got it back up and I failed to dispel it.

Shooting: 3 more of my bowmen died with arrows in their skulls.

Combat: He did 2 wounds to NC2, leaving him on 1 wound left. In return, NC2 did 1 wound to the BSB from his 5 S6 attacks and 5 into the unit from Thunderstomp. He stuck around.


Turn 6 - Resolute Defenders of the Ancient Ways
Movement: Crumble did no damage. The Titan charged EG1.

Magic: Thorns got taken down.

Shooting: The last 2 Horse Archers, plus 7 remaining foot Archers shot the last Wardancers. Nobody hit.

Combat: 5 Colossus attacks plus 3 Titan attacks did 1 wound total, but I still had 2 Thunderstomps to go against his handful (fewer than 6 if memory serves) of EG. He joked "Now all I need is for you to roll two ones!" I did. The two hits did kill 2 EG, who passed their break check.

Final Score: 817 to 0 in favor of the Wood Elves



(Post-game and Unit Evaluations in another post further down)

Wow, Sleb. Might be time to consider playing dwarves?

More seriously, you seem to be taking a lot of crumbling wounds. Is the Prince not around or are you just rolling high?

Some stuff was in range of his Ld9, but not all. When you are rolling 11 and 12 left and right, it doesn't matter much anyway.

What I see is:

Good dice, bad dice, good dice, bad dice, good dice, bad dice, worse dice, dead dice ad infinitum.

You manage to blow away the odds of what should be, each and every time. Still, am happy to see some thing went well for at least the first turn...

I want to play a game of statisticshammer sometime. To play, you try to roll a few dice as possible. When you charge you always get 7" on two dice. Chariots always score 3.5 impact hits per chariot. Etc. Would be interesting to see how things match up.

I've often wanted to do the same. People who have seen my play know that my battle cry is "Average! Just give me average!" I would kill the population of a nursing home in Portugal (not really) just to know I could expect average results most of the time.

What do you have against Portugal?

Post-game Thoughts: Twilight of the Idols

Today is the dawn of a new day. It's been made clear to me that a negative opinion of Tomb Kings will no longer be tolerated on the forum, so I will endeavor to bring a ray of positivity to my posts from here on, starting now.

I felt like I had a good plan, a good deployment, and the tools to get the job done. The carrion were in good position to delay the treeman on the left and buy time for my Idols to take down one EG unit + the BSB. Were it not for my second game in a row of an amazingly poor string of die rolls taking down the hierophant so early, I feel like the plan had a chance. Even in his death, he at least really weakened the EG unit with his Skullstorm, so there was a chance.

I enjoyed having those big guys to move around in a pack like that. I'll try it again. In fact, there's a good chance I will get two more games in tomorrow night, so I may be able to report back here with some good news. It will be the first time at a new house for me, so I won't be rude to my host and new opponents by bogging the game down in lots of note-taking. This means I won't be able to give a detailed blow-by-blow, but I'll do my best to recall the action for the community.

Most of my thoughts are probably best expressed as part of the Unit Evaluations, so I'll move on to that now.


Unit Evaluations

Prince
Tough to say. He was not an influence on the game other than his Leadership for crumble checks, which, due to a series of 11's and 12's didn't really help either. He needs to get his unit into combat to fully realize his potential. As you may have read in another thread, I've been debating King vs Prince in TG units. I had not given much thought to this situation. A King would be even more wasted in games where he doesn't see action. A Prince is less risky. Kings should be in chariots. Princes may be better for the foot troop role.

I do actually wish I could have had a BSB in the army, to help with crumble, but at this point level, I can't really see what to drop. Besides, this really only works if the unit avoids combat, as we saw here. If the unit got into a fight, the Icon Bearer would almost certainly die and be wasted. Hmm. Something to think about.

Liche
Well, he went out with a bang! That's exciting! I dropped from Level 4 to Level 2 to, in part, protect myself from tossing lots of spells and getting miscasts. It didn't work out this time, but golly gee, at least I kept my VP losses below 900pts by keeping the hierophant cheap. That's something positive.

Necrotect
His only part in the game was to pass a Look Out, Sir! roll. He lives, keeping his VPs intact.

Tomb Guard
They did an excellent job of not giving up their victory points. My opponent was intelligent enough to ensure that this block never saw combat. With 24 inches between us to start, and his early retreating, there was no way the unit was going to see action, even though they had the benefit of seeing where to deploy and lining up against a great target.

I had thought about giving them the Undying Legion banner, but dropped it in favor of more guys. I'm glad I made that choice.

Their toughness did save some of them from dying to arrows, an improvement over what skeletons would have done in their position.

Carrion
They were really in a good spot. Almost no matter what my opponent would have chosen to do, it would have delayed his Treeman. It was bad luck that their hierophant had to keep an appointment elsewhere, leaving them to wither away.

Skeleton Archers
They did not have much impact today, but if there had been an eagle I'll bet they really could have earned their keep. They were included in the list as a safety net for the hierophant to jump into when the TG got threatened. I feel it's important to have a lifeboat like that, so I'll keep them. At only 10 models, the cost of going from Skeleton Warriors to Skeleton Archers is negligible.

Horse Archers
They, too, felt the sting of their hierophant's early demise, a full unit of them dying before their first chance to shoot! I feel they were in good position, and kept my opponent penned it. He knew that his expensive T3 elves could die from these bows and this meant he had to pay attention. It was just more bad luck that kept them from killing the last three War Dancers and earning me some VPs.

Chariots
I touched on this before, but I'll say it here again. I knew they were going to die, but I figured they would do an important job before doing so by occupying the right flank, killing the War Dancers, and then maybe killing half the Guard unit over there. It was, again, bad luck that kept those War Dancers alive and minimized the damage the Guard took. At least they did do the jobs of keeping the Ancient from roaming free into my TG unit and holding up that flank.

Necrolith Colossi
I'd like to see what they could have done without the hierophant dying. Side note - I also wish we had a way to give our BSB an 18" bubble. It would encourage a more aggressive mode of play. Anyway, these guys stood a great chance of tearing into S3 T3 elves. Failed charges, crumble, and lots of missed attacks and stomps conspired to rob them of their glory. Next time!

Titan
I think he was actually the man of the match. Granted, when the game is this heavily one-sided in its result, it's tough to give out the award, but upon reflection, I think he deserves it. He was able to act as part of the trio of terror, exerting his possible Thunderstomp damage influence on the mind of my opponent, all the while tossing out spells that had a really good chance of taking out a treeman. As it was, the treeman was half dead due to the Titan's activity. He also gave me something to do with the renewable resource of the Winds of Magic after the wizard had died, allowing me to keep playing in that phase.


That'll just about do it. Thanks for reading.

well, I know you weren't looking for another queen title, but 'Another one bites the dust' comes to my mind.

twice the warping cascade is just dreadful. And on turn 1... that game was doomed.

Thx for the report, though, I really like how you put an air of comic-tragedy into it :-)

With that kind of luck, I would have commited all the Colossus attacks on the BSB on the charge, for a better chance (I would like to say a garantee, but not with your dices ) at killing a characters, netting you some VPs. The Thunderstomp then can take care of the unit. Especially since you had the Titan no far behind to bring support the next round.

Yeah, I thought about it. You can see I tried it at my next chance, with no effect. You're right that it's the way to go, though. I guess my thinking was that I wanted to generate resolution and could only get two vs the BSB no matter how well I rolled. Didn't work out.

Sleboda:

Have you considered letting someone else roll your dice in the first few turns? Your dice are completely bi-polar.

Combat dice on turns 5 and 6 were abysmal.

Separately, I think you don't use Shem's Burning Gaze enough. Given your ability to roll 6s, better to burn out the Gaze than your wizard.