So, with the new book in my hands and a few games under my belt I have decided to go on a quest hoping to find the key to success with the new army book in 8th edition. I shall be taking you on a journey for 20 games at 2200pts I shall be reporting on the battles played with general comments on the outcome and performance of my army. It is widely accepted that at -least- 20 games with a certain army against a plethora of opponents will give you insight as to the ebb and flow of an army list. And hence I seek the wisdom of the priests and hope that you can join me on this quest. So, I ask you to gain inspiration from these tales of battle as well as offering your insight to the path ahead. At the end of these 20 games we shall have a better understanding of the Tomb Kings legions and how to use them with tactical and strategical efficiency in game.

My Tomb King army These are the WIP and finished Pics of what I am working on.

Cheers!

Good effort Skari~!

I'll certainly be keeping an eye on this thread

ditto, i already put it into my watched threads

Great idea. I have not gotten the armybook yet, coming out Wed here so when I do get it I will be doing this too and watching other gamers ideas and thoughts.

Its a whole new world

Hello and thanks to all for your posts. Now, on to the prologue. I shall discuss my preliminary games that I have had with the Kings army and what I have learned from these games. This will give us the basic core for what we are looking for in a 2200pt army.
I have had 4 games at this point value, and and 2 games at the 1500pt value, but this is not about the skirmish sized games, this is the tale of great battles.
vs Empire:
My opponents list consisted of about 1500pts sunk into one unit, this unit was a huge unit of empire knights (40) + 3 characters (BSB, Karl Franz and Priest). 3 Great Cannon a Mortar and a Steam Tank. The army I ran was a basic list that was similar to my other lists, just with a few perks from the new book since I had no idea about the new book and had made the list in the few minutes that I had had the book in my hands.
King with Tomb Guard. HLP lv 4, Lp lv2, big skeleton block with tomb prince, casquet of souls, one screaming skull, 10 Light horse, 2 units of 20 bowmen and a Colossus. I had really spent on the characters and did not have too many supporting units.

Things that I learned from this defeat:
- The Skeleton horde I had actually survived quite a while against the huge death star. The prince needed something to keep him alive for longer in combat. I got too carried away and charged the tomb guard into the front of the horde of horsemen thinking that the skellies would loose soon, but I would have had time to flank the horde and in the long run that would have been better.
- I had taken WAY too many spell levels and bound items. Ruby Ring, Casquet, level 4, Level 2, Banner of Undying Legion... even with the casquet bonus I was finding it hard to use all the tools at my disposal.
- The bone giant died to mass cannon fire... so he did not have too good of a showing, the screaming skull did 6 wounds onto the steam tank turn 1... that was really nice. Maybe wanted to get a second one for anti monster shooting?
- The casquet was nice, but my opponent kept enough dice arround to always dispel it... Talking about magic... we totally played the Lore of Nehek all wrong, and were treating the augment spells as RIP spells... so during his magic phase he was dispelling them and I was loosing the bonuses that I had (KB, extra attack, ward.. etc)... Never again!
- The light horse... awesome. As soon as I saw that they had scout I was drawn to them... I always liked them before (as bunkers for my LP) but scout and cheaper makes them even better... the 10 took out all the warmachines. Totally worth it they had to stay in some shape or form.

This was the first game that I had had with the new book and the lessons that I learned I took back to the drawing table. For my second game I faced off against a lizardmen player. In my next post I shall explore the changes that I had made to the list and the situations that I found myself in during the game.

Cheers!

On to the second game of my Prologue series:

2200pts vs Lizardmen.
His list was:
Slaan (all the good stuff) Lore of Light
20-30 Guard
2 units of 24 warriors, one with spears.
2 units of skirmishing blowpipe skinks
Steg engine of gods, skink priest.
unit of 3 salamanders.

It is a very hefty list, and a tried and true contender for 8th edition.

My list had changed and this is what I took:

Casquet- Always take the casquet...
unit of 5 Ushabti
3 Chariots
30 Tomb Guard with King
HLP
LP (death)
Prince
Light horse (bunker for HLP)
16 Archers
10 Archers
50 HW/Sh Skeletons
Skullypult

- The mission was dawn attack. And from the begginging I was on an off foot... 6 of my units all ended up on my left flank... the
casket, the skeletons, the tomb guard, the ushabti, unit of archers, the chariots and the HLP's bunker.

So, I was unable to finish this game but here is the list of things that I learned:
-Musicians are fantastic... and needed. I had so much stuff crammed in that flank and no music...so my chariots and ushabti were out of pisition in respect to the rest of his army... If you want to get out of a tight spot, use the horns!
- Large skeleton unit with the prince was amazing once again.
- The ushabti died, easily and it is hard to bring them back.
- The casket was really nice.
- The position I was put into at the start of the game really stunk.
- I felt like I did not need the secondary caster... although he did roll up purple sun the damned becalming was really preventing me from doing it effectively.

So, back to the drawing board, but I can see a pattern emerging. Skelly block + prince = awesome.

Hi Mate

That Lizardmen army looks pretty sweet, and badluck on your setup.

I have a few questions about your list, I haven't played many games in 8th and none with the new rulebook but i'll throw them out there anyway.


The level 2 LP - Why run him with Death? Two random spells from a list like death must be pretty hard to plan around surely? Why not just full TK Lore?

Why two small units of Archers rather than one big one? TK Augments are sooo much more effective on large units and any kind of MSU tactic allows your opponent to focus fire - can't res eliminated units. Surely you would be better combining the units and if you can, bump it to 30? (only 24 points)

Also how are you finding the 3 chariot unit ?

And the Ushabti? And speaking of Ushabti I know a 6+ regen is pretty fail, but have you considered running them along side your TG unit and putting a Necro in it? Also buffs your TG unit to hell - 30 S5 attacks @ rerollable WS6 ftw thanks.

On that note - TG running with Halberds yes?

Best of luck with your games man.

- Ah, the death level 2... well after the first game I had realized that I had too many things to spend power dice on and not many power dice at times... the death wiz was a test to try out being able to get more power dice and hence, to get more spells off. After that game I did come to the realization that he was not needed, and that the TK lore is actually quite good all in all and he would be better off with it.

- At that point level you will see that I just did not know what to drop since then. Um, I since then have made it one unit 20 and one 10... maybe puting them all in one will be good? But I do like the smaller unit as deployment bait/redirecting sacrifice.

Have used them with a mixture of results. I like them as a deterrent and they are excellent at doing flank damage! They also are great at keeping weaker units at bay and in check.

- The ushabti have been dropped... and have not been missed. In smaller games tho I do like a unit of them to deal with chariots and such as I give them bows . But in these test games this was the last one that I took them in and I have not missed them... yet. I am not running them with halberds... 2 pts a halberd is crazy expensive and I much prefer having the 6+ ward as for the necrotec I am trying to go as character minimum as possible... I do not thing the hatred is needed and he is just asking to give away points only being t4 and 2W...

Hope this answers some of your querries. Stay tuned for the next two games from the epilogue series, then we will dive in to the actual stuff.

Cheers!

in average, how many spells can you pull per turn? Not how many can you cast but how many actually go through?

It really varies, new 8th ed magic is quite different. Taking 6 levels of magic is considered a lot (level 4 and level 2) You might aim to get one good spell off every turn. If you are lucky 2-3 most of our spells on a lv 2 you will be casting with 3 dice at least although with a lv 4 you can get away with 2 D per spell 4 if you want it boosted. Of course a Hierotitan will assist here as well . The Casquet is always nice because even if the winds blow low then you can at least have something cast.

Skari, have you tested the skelly horde with spears instead of sword and board yet? I am surprised to hear the horde with hw&s is doing so well as the consensus seems to be that horde with spears is the best way to go. (If you use horde)..

Im kindof struggling with this one myself because I can't decide whether to build with spears or hw&s

also I like the idea of 20 games to perfection

@ Bonehead: I have tested the spears... and I dislike the spears because they are a 25% point increase on the unit... because it is so easy to kill the skeletons id rather have another 10-20 of them instead of the extra attacks. Reason being, they are not always placed in horde formation, sometime you have to place them in tarpit fomation 5 wide and deep as hell... to negate steadfast and to reduce incoming attacks (say from another nastier horde). And I like my skeletons actually having a chance to save, that 6+ parry is not a lot but sometimes it makes all the difference... and its free!. That is why I like the HW/Sh skeletons.

Stay tuned for game 3 of the epilogue!

Will be interesting to follow this! I had a battle blog where I didn't change my list for 20+ games, so it'll be interesting to see how you do. Hope all goes well!

Cheers,
Dave

Thank you for the encouragement!
So, games 3 and 4 of the Prologue series, and a discussion of the set list that I will be running for the 20 games:

Game 3 Was against Orks and Goblins:
His list;
Black Ork Special Character with about 30 black orks.
Large unit of double choppa orks (25?) BSB in here as well
40 or 50 Night gobbos with nets and fanatics with a NG lv 4 Shaman
10 arrer boyz.
2 units of 3 wolf chariots (str 5? wow)
1 Aracknoc spider

My list had changed a bit from my previous game and now included muscitians where needed, no ushabti a bone giant and a a prince instead of a king as well as LV 4 and that was it for magic. Cloak of dunes and ward for the hiero.

HLP Lv4 Hierophant. Cloak, Earthing Rod, Opal Amulet - 300pts

Prince Glittering Scales, DB Gem and HW, SH- 132pts

Prince Armour of Fortune and GW- 139pts

6 Horse Archers

50 HW/Sh Skellies with FC

20 Bows with FC

10 Bows with Mus

3 Chariots, Banner, Eternal Flame

23 Tomb Guard - FC, BoUL

2 Swarms

Colossus extra HW

2 x SSC

Casket

Total - 2200pts

So, mission saw dawn attack once again, this time he was heavy on my right with big spider, hero black ork bunker, chariots and gobbos in the center and the small unit of archers (that did not to anything all game so I wont mention them again) on the left field.

All in all I was doing very well starting turn 3, my BG had eliminated a unit of chariots and had then moved into contact with the Black orks, stalling them... the horse archers got in the way of the big spider to prevent it from getting involved int he middle of the battle, the chariots and HW/sh skellies had broken the unit of orks in the middle and then held up the gobbos with the shaman... it all came down to the shaman casting his big spell bosted, irresistibly and killing 15 of the tomb guard that were about to fight the big spider, and about 30 of the skeletons... neutering any advantage that I had until then, the spider stomped all over the remnants of the tomb guard and then ate the rest of my army... one unit of wolf chariots had busted through my line by hitting the 10 man archer unit and going into the backfield to take out my casket and both catapults over the course of the game.

What a great turn around. The hierophant was alive thanks to the cloak of dunes, but I did not have much else as the last of the skeletons crumbled due to combat resolution.

So things that I noted from this game:
- Need to have a dispel scroll in my army... it would not have helped against any double sixes, but just in case it would prevent something like this from happening again.
- I was happy with the performance of my army in general... the swarms never showed up and the 10 man archer unit was not needed or useful in this game. Both catapults were good but they failed to wound the big spider.. over and over and over again...

So, on to game 4 that happened right after this game. Played the same Lizard player that I had faced in game 2, except this time he took the tried and true Lore of Life for his Slaan.

We played blood and glory. He deployed slaan centraly flanked by both saurus squads, steg on one side within 12 of all block for the ward save... and skinks on one side and sallies and skinks on my right... here i scouted the fast cav to force his skinks away of the sallies from the main battle. I went first and just advanced as fast as I could up the table. Firing at skinks I killed 7 form the unit on my right and the SSC opened up on the steg but failed to kill it.

He advanced and dwellers my 40 skellies, I had deployed my hiero on the far right with the 20 man archer unit to prevent becalming at least for a little bit. With the cloak he was later able to move closer to buff my main units.... so the battle raged on, my TG smashed into the saurus warriors on my right of the slaan and made them run, I was unable to run them down... the skellies tied up the slaan TG unit and the BG charged into the other unit of saurus on the left... the catapults smashed the steg and killed it to prevent it from helping the saurus against the colossus. The scouting cav took care of the skinks in my turn and on my third turn saw a boosted smiting go off ( even with becalming on my hiero) that saw my 20 archers become 40, the scout cav come back to full strength and hence the salamanders pack was reduced to one salamander...

We had to call the game due to time but it had been going very well for me. A few things that I noticed:

- the colossus was awesome but I think the list would benefit more from a hierotitan, a lv 4 is hard to stop (with the casket bonus) and +d3 to his power of spells would mean a lot more.

- still missing the dispel scroll, a secondary caster for more support across the board... sometimes the movement spell would be awesome but people know this and they shut it down, having a second chance at it would be great!

Anyway, here ends the Epilogue series, I have written up my list and will now begin this journey. My fellow Priests, Princes and Kings. Advance in the name of Khemri!

I think you do want to call it prologue!

Love the reports!

Actually I believe 10 man unit is not very useful. Too easy to kill by anything. Not much shots.

When 8th edition came out I was trying units of twenty, but they are very ineffective, so I came to decision that minimum of 30 can survive and do some real damage.

I find units of 10 to be useful for one thing only... and that is for deployment bait.
Yes, this entire time I was telling the end of the story at the beggining... please forgive my mixing of the terms (and I call myself an English Minor?!). Posts changed to Prologue, because that is what these 4 games were.

So, just came back from my latest game, Game 1 of the Journey... we dusty foot legions taking the great watchtower that leads to the passage to the north. Held by the barbarian warriors clad in steel and writhed in magical energies of chaos. (for those not into the narrative, played a game watchtower scenario against warriors of chaos, he started the game in the tower) And this time... have pictures. I hope to have it up later tonight.

Cheers!

So, Game 1 in the series:

Win vs Warriors of Chaos 2200pts.
His list was not an ultra competitive list this is what he took:
Khorne lord on Jugger
3 units of 15 Tzeench warriors FC
2 Level 2's one with tzeench, one with death. Infernal Puppet (I did not like this thing).
4 units of Hounds, 5 strong
5 Khorne Knights (maybe chosen?)
Hellcannon

And now to the list that I have written up for the Journey of 20 games:

Tomb King, Golden Death Mask, Sword of Might, Dragonhelm, Shield, Seed of Rebirth

High Liche Priest- Level 4, Hierophant, Cloak of the dunes, talisman of preservation.

Tomb Prince- Glittering Scales, HW, Shield, Dragonbane Gem

Liche Priest lv 1, Dispel Scroll, Ironcurse Icon

40 Skeleton warriors, FC

20 Archers, Mus, Champ

3 Chariots, Mus, Standard, Banner of Flame

5 Horse Archers

23 Tomb Guard, BoUL, FC

3 Carrion

Colossus (really the concept should have this as a Hierotitan, but I want to make a model for it, same points cost)

1 SSC

Casket of souls!

Anyway some pics and the general overview of the game:
Deployment:


Tomb King Turn one:
- King and Guard charge into building. The 20 archers take out one unit of hounds on the far left, and cause panic on the 15 warriors beside them... who fail and run off the table taking the level 2 wizard with the scroll off the table .


WoC turn 1:
- He moves the hounds about to block lanes of advance, splits his lord from the knights as he is not getting a LOS roll from the catapult and he needs the knights to get into the midle. The hellcannon does 3 wounds on the giant.


TK Turn 2:
- The King and Guard assault the building once again, the unit inside fails their terror test, because they are in a building they count as having failed their fear test. The carrion fly in front of the jugger lord to direct him away from the battle (as frenzied units must overrun). The giant charges the hounds in front of him, they fail terror and run, magically I move the giant into a better position for next turn, he gains a wound back. My prince and skellies charged into more hounds right in front of them and killed them in cc, making sure they withheld pursuit so that the knights only had a front charge. My HLP irresitibles a boosted smiting spell, giving everyone with 24" more shots and attacks. He miscasts and rolls an 8, not bad, but the enemy wizard used the puppet to up the value to a 10... this meant that now my wizard would loose 2 levels of magic and 2 spells (including the one I had just cast)... nasty.

TK turn 2 cont:
The King and TGuard storm the building, the enemy fled and the they took possession of the tower.


WoC Turn 2:
- The lord charged the carrion, murdered them and overran over towards the far right of the table away from the actual fight. The knights charged into the skelly block and killed about 13 with crumble loosing none in return. The hellcannon took a wound off a chariot after scattering off the giant. Other units rallied.

TK Turn 3:
- The giant charged the far unit in the backfield with the other sorceror they failed terror and ran... he redirected against the closer unit together with the chariots, they passed and held their ground. The casket of souls used a lot of dice and zapped the jugger lord... for one dead jugger lord . The skelly combat was again stagnant, shooting saw some wounds off the hellcannon, and the giant and chariots smashed the unit of warriors and ran them down.


And lo and behold... the game was called. The time was up but the Tomb Kings were in firm control of the tower!

Tactical Review:
- My opponent was not running a super hard list and he is relatively new to fantasy so there were a lot of mistakes on his part, such as putting his general out on a flank. The hounds were more of a hamper than a bonus as they were easily shot down buy asp arrows and dealt with quickly in cc. The combat for the tower was quite something, the King with his Sword of Might turned the tide both times, one to tie the combat, the other to win it. The death mask was really nice and would have meant that even if his general was near the unit they would have suffered the same fate! I like it.
- The unit of 20 archers is a nice bunker for the HLP and provides a decent "just in case" unit. Although it seems that most armies are built around 3 larger blocks of fighters and then 1 supporting block. There was another TK player with a unit of 40 TG (no BOUL).
- I liked having the level 1 caster... he is nice and giving him the movement spell was not bad, luckily i rolled dobles for my HLP and was able to pick the ones I wanted.
- His army did not really have any shooting, and so I was unable to really see how my units did against them (especially the smaller units like carrion and the horse archers).
- The casket was awesome, and actually bounced this time.
- He got super unlucky with the first turn run away unit of warriors...

Anyway. On to game 2! (there is talk about changing the point value of the LGS league nights to 2500pts, more standard point value for tournaments IIRC?... so If this happens I will continue the synergy of this list, but I will have 300 more points to spend! yay for a better ward on my HLP .

Cheers!

A good win, but no BSB for the WoC? Weird.

Amazing how many terror/panic tests he failed. Bet he takes that BSB next time.

WoC can always reroll failed panic checks anyways (and terror is a panic check).
So a BSB is not THAAAAAAAAT mandatory for WoC.

Still nice report, thanks alot

Do you think the lvl 4 is really needed or could you perhaps run 2 level 3s for example (or a 3 & 2) As a way to minimize miscast damage, costs and maximizing casting ability?

Frenzy do not need to always charge. They can just take a leadership-test and avoid charging the nearest unit.

Really cool ideia and project. One i should also follow.

@ Ronin- A terror test is a leadership test, not panic.
@ Bobmakenzie- I like the level 4 for dispel as well... the extra level really helps. I am also running only the one because I really wanted to run a king. I know that the other HLP can have the mask as well... but he would be quite squishy, I feel. At least for now this is the layout .
@ Archaon- I am aware that frenzied unit need not charge... they must take a leadership test to restrain the charge tho. What frenzied units DO have to do, always is try and catch a fleeing enemy and over running after wiping someone out after a charge... THAT is what I took advantage of, you can put screening units at angles that benefit you after they overrun because they have to. They don't have to charge. Either way the extra turn that you have to deal with them is always useful .

Thanks for the comments! Keep em flowin!
Cheers