How Do We Handle High Elves?

I've got a game 1k-1.5k this sunday and I've never played against them and am pretty clueless on what they are about, their strengths weaknesses and tactics to use against them. Any advice would be appreciated

chariots, archers, skullstorm

Soften them up with massed bow fire and then send the chariots in, impact hits are worked out before ASF so take full advantage of it. Also don't target Dragon Princes with the SSC as they've got a 2+ ward versus flaming attacks.

High elves are my first army and tk second soooo

-Respect the phoenix guard and their ward saves.

-Remember to take advantage of impact hits but do not plan to take out large units.

-Blocks of strength 3 infantry (spearmen, seaguard) don't stand a chance against higher toughness units.

-If you think they will bring a BSB you might as well not even bother with the casket.

-Even without the cheesiest items their magic phase can easily dominate, watch out in particular for lore of shadow (elves love it) and ESPECIALLY pit of shades which causes initiative checks.

-If they do have the cheesiest items just concede and play someone else.

-Take advantage of your ability to win the battle of attrition.

Ill be happy to answer any other specific questions!

The only thing i hate more than this kind of comment is agreeing with it.

Book of Hoeth builds are a nightmare for TK, and Teclis is virtually an auto-win unfortunately.

Only real objection I have is describing them as "cheesy" - this kind of thinking has got to go if Warhammer is to compete with games that are coming up, and have managed to outgrow this sort of passive-aggressive bullying. The guy using his army to the best of his and its ability is not being a bad sport, he is not being a meanie, and it is not borderline cheating. The guy insinuating that he is a poor player by bringing "cheesy" / "beardy" items is the guy who's hurting the hobby.

-und_ed

Only real objection I have is describing them as "cheesy" - this kind of thinking has got to go if Warhammer is to compete with games that are coming up, and have managed to outgrow this sort of passive-aggressive bullying. The guy using his army to the best of his and its ability is not being a bad sport, he is not being a meanie, and it is not borderline cheating. The guy insinuating that he is a poor player by bringing "cheesy" / "beardy" items is the guy who's hurting the hobby.

-und_ed

+1 this couldn't be more right.

And by extension, the way to deal with this is to only ever play armies that can bring equally imbalanced units to the table.

Teclis and Kairos are the primary reasons special characters are not allowed in many tournaments, and that is in an edition that supposedly treats special characters on an equal footing with normal characters.

The argument for / against comp is a separate issue, OWC, but of course it's a thorny one that I don't want to go into here.

My main point is that whichever side of the fence you're on, blaming the players that use stuff you dislike is a poor way to go, but still seems the default position of far too many players. (I confess, I used to do the same. I mellowed a bit over time, but still didn't really change my perspective until I started playing Warmachine as well as Warhammer, and felt for myself the breath of fresh air that was playing in a community free of this sort judgement)

Let go of your prejudices people, your gaming will be loads more fun without it.

-und_ed

I agree with the concept of judgment free army composition on paper, however, of all the games that I have played (magic, lotr tcg, video games a plenty, countless others) Warhammer fantasy has the most fragile balancing of all of them. I have absolutely no information on what kind of play testing goes on at games workshop but it must be less than any other R & D department in the industry. I am not going to criticize cookie cutter lists, I am over that sort of thing, but the level of imbalance present due to the staggered release of army books makes for situations like the Book of Hoeth that are simply unreasonable.

Hello.

They have to make their profit = army books out fast = not that much playtesting.

This all means that you shouldnt take this game as seriously than some other more balanced options out there.

Mind you, I think same happened to Magic the Gathering card game- every new pack used to have more and more powerfull cards and new rules to help them sell and game went downhill pretty fast...

Ou, hmmmm... sorry question was about high elves, sorry, not a clue about that- I dont play against them much, I quess I justed wanted to rant a bit.

Yours,
- Dlock

On topic, I would say what has been said is pretty much it. My brother's main army is HE and I play against it very often.

Massed arrow fire is really good since pretty much their whole army has Toughness 3, maybe only their heroes get T4. Their bows are good in return but take advantage of cover and moving without negative effects on your TK shooting.

In their magic phase, you can overpower them if you go magic heavy, but I suggest not to do that since if he does it, you've wasted a lot of points in magic. Remember that all his mages get bonuses to dispelling, but are also fragile. As for the lore of shadows, don't let them cast Pit of Shades but also definitely Okkam's Mindrazor. On a group of spearmen it's just too deadly.

Don't rely on fear to activate, because they all have very high Ld, usually 8.

Stay out of range from Swordmasters! Those things are living nightmares. They are also just glass cannons though, so whittle them down with bow fire and then smash them with your impact hits.

By experience, I'd say bolt throwers aren't that menacing so you don't really have to pay too much attention to them.

That's pretty much all I could come up with atm, good luck in your battle!

Their heroes usually have good armour, but are only T3. Their chariots are T4. Tough things in a High Elf armylist: dragons and Phoenix guard (4+ ward save).

I'd also recommend the Lore of Light: Birona's can be very powerful against High Elves, and the speed of light makes spearmen hit on 5's without re-roll, which is one of the best Mindrazor counters (better than a 4+ ward save!).