Tk Vs Ogre Kingdoms

Hey guys,
I wanted to ask you guys for some tips.
My friend plays ogre kingdoms and i wanted to know which units i should take.
Im new to warhammer, so i have no clue.
I have a necrosphinx and 24 archers.
Which units should i take and what strategy/tactics?

Ogres have three major problems: Low Leadership, Low Initiative, and poor armor. Luckily for you, a decent number of Tomb Kings attacks can capitalize on that.

The Lore of Nehekhara has spells that will reduce his Toughness; use them to make your bows a lot better! Six of the seven spells in the Lore of Death are great against Ogres, especially the Purple Sun.

Stalkers attack their Initiative and can cause lots of wounds. Catapults (with the help of Doom and Darkness from the Lore of Death) can make them run away. The Casket of Souls (also combined with D&D) can slaughter his army. Really, aside from Dwarfs, I think Ogres may be one of the easiest match ups we can get.

(do try to avoid close combat though, unless you're charging with a pile of chariots )

Kinda nice given the current meta, huh?

Yep! It's quite handy.

Hi there
I agree with Veritas, never had any problems fighting ogres either.
Big units of Necroknights and Tomb Guards with the help of Nehekaras buff-spells will chew through them like they were kittens.

Unlike Veritas I go with Lore of Light on my second lvl4. Using bjurnas and speed of light to make my necroknights unstoppable, if you allow named characters I go with Ramhoptep for the re-rolleble armour save on the knights, togheter with the regen that necrotects gives you, you have 3 chanses on rolling 6's if he hits you with Ironguts, its nice to see how durable they get!
If you find the ironblaster menecing you six dice Light of Death from the casket on it and it should wither in a few rounds.

If you dont have or use larger blocks with Necroknights and Tomb Guards you can use Archers togheter with Desication to punish his blocks that usually are quite few in number. Vengence is usefull on his bigger blocks, not only will it ditch out some wounds on him, it also gives you a few rounds of extra shooting. With both of the spells on the same unit you will couse panic-checks in a giffy!
If he is stupid enough to use Leadbelchers just igonore them

//Biscuit

This feels funny to me. Ogres are one of the most frequent opponents I face, and out of almost 10 games I have only won once. Maybe it's my tactics, maybe my army (I don't have Stalkers or that many archers either and only 3 Necropolis Knights, which are really good, though). One additional problem is my opponent's ability to pass Ld tests, so Casket rarely does much and his troops stay where they are if I manage to win a combat. On the other hand, the one time I won, he fluffed his Ld tests left and right...

And that thrice cursed Mournfang Cavalry...

I try to drop as many rocks on the mournfangs as possible, vengence helps alot here. Wide deployed mournfangs get a light of death in their face every turn.
If he plays with multiple units I try to tarpit one unit with my 35 skeleton bunker (characters moved out)
The mournfangs will chew through them in a few rounds but hopefully i get my necroknights in the flank of them fast enought.
I usually play a 6-man block of necroknights and about 2 catapults, with two chances a turn the catapults usually hits a few times so the D3 wounds softens them up.
The gutstar you need to avoid, again vengence and then your chaff is the stars here, 5-man units of horsearchers are the best chaff you got. Try to bait his gutstar to deploy on one flank, then cattle them around with the chaff.
I find that our chariots bounce of the far bigger ogre units in this match up. Maybe I can get one lucky flank and get one round of combat damage in but mostly I use my 4-man chariot unit as bait or chaff just to get killed of by the mournfang or gutstar, the chariots that weighs in about 240pts is a little more expensive than i like to throw away on stuff like this but sometimes you have to and 240pts is cheap if you are risking your bunker, casket etc.


//Biscuit

6 Chariots can smashface units even of 5-6 ogres/ironguts. A handy desiccation or soulblight makes it even more so.

I used my Necrosphinx's Heroic Killing blow against a 400 point tyrant.

Best bit was I cased Cursed Blades on it so the HKB hit on a 5 or 6. I rolled a 5 and totally forgot about the spell unit the opponent reminded me it hit on a 5 as well. What a gent.

Sadly my snakes and sphinxes (tomb guard) don't get their killing blows or stomps vs ogres, which annoyed me a bit... would love to use normal killing blow to facemelt ogres. So watch out for that; also they cause fear so don't take terror tests. Still with weak leadership the casket does wonders

i would suggest using some t.k. too ,though i'm not sure if the kb affects ogres.If kb works then get some t.k. buffed to kb on 5-6 and massacre them!!

Unfortunately Killing Blow only works on:
- Infantry
- Cavalry
- War Beasts

And will not work on the following troop types:
- Monstrous Infantry
- Monstrous Beast
- Monstrous Cavalry
- Monster
- Chariot
- Swarm
- Unique
- War Machine

yep you're totaly right,however I still think that the t.k. with st 5 is pretty good vs ogre core units.

Just played my Ogre team mate with the ETC rules. I won 2700 to 70 points. Total massacre. The casket, necropolis knights paid for themselves many many many times over. I was helped along by his Ironblaster misfiring and blowing up and taking two mournfang with it, and his ogre block with 4 characters in it lost by 14wounds to my 6 necroknights and warsphinx, stubborn with steadfast on a 10.... he rolled 11 BSB reroll... then he rolled a 12, fled and I perused him and chomped about 1500 points in one combat. Terrible luck he had. Even his Hellheart went off and I rolled 2 9s for my two mages, so that only ended up doing 1 wound! Chariots impact hits picked off the other mournfang block. I won 20-0 by tournament points, 2700 victory points and that was at the end of turn 3. He was not a happy bunny!

So IMO Ogres are one of our easiest matchups. Just exploite thier terrible leadership and the fact that mournfang lose out to necropolis knights. I take knights over tomb guard as tomb guard suffer stomp!

This is not my experience at all. I think the Mournfang Cavalry are leagues ahead of our Knights. Twice I have had 3vs3 battle with those units, and both times I haven't even been able to kill one Mournfang while the Knights have been obliterated. When he added one more Mournfang to the mix, I have been avoiding facing them with the snake surfers, at least until they have been weakened.

Agreed that the N-knights are weaker than the Mournfang cav, but thats not the whole match up. We have lots of other tools that can attack their weaknesses. My most common match up is Ogres and while they certainly aren't a push over, I have had great success against them.

So, that should teach you not to undertake such a foolish combat again then, eh? The three games I've faced Mournfangs, they've never even made it to combat before they were fleeing or dead. Stalkers, D&D, the casket, and various shooting make them magically disappear in a flash. Of course Mournfangs are really evil in combat, it's one of their strengths. So, like in any other game, don't play to your opponent's strengths...

So, that should teach you not to undertake such a foolish combat again then, eh? The three games I've faced Mournfangs, they've never even made it to combat before they were fleeing or dead. Stalkers, D&D, the casket, and various shooting make them magically disappear in a flash. Of course Mournfangs are really evil in combat, it's one of their strengths. So, like in any other game, don't play to your opponent's strengths...

I wouldn't preferably matchup our knights vs mournfang, either. But if it can't be avoided, our knights react well to buffs from lore of light. It is not an autowin for the mournfang, and mournfang do run, given the right dice, ours won't... I am not so sure our knights would lose by that much goven the right circumstances.

Yeah, I don't know what fluky combat went on that actually saw Necropolis Knights actually beat Mournfangs, but the 'fangs are something TK deals with by killing it BEFORE it gets to combat. 4 of them with the Dragonhide Banner are in the points neighborhood of 6 Knights, and they'll beat the unliving tar out of them in combat.

In general, Ogres are tough for us to deal with. Our best bet is countering their mediocre WS values with MWBD-enhanced ones of our own, their low I with our medium I, and their lowish Ld with Terror. Oh, and shooting/magic. A LOT of shooting/magic.

Well Necroknights against Mournfangs at the same point level boils down to the presence or not of the DHB. Without it, Necroknights win, win it Mournfangs win :

5 necroknights FC vs 4 Mournfangs FC without DHB.

Turn 1
11 Guards attack, 7.33 hits, 3.66 wounds, 1.02 after saves
15 Snakes attacks, 5 hits + 2.5 poison, 5.83 wounds, 2.43 after saves => 1 Dead MF

10 Ogres attacks, 5 hits, 2.5 wounds, 1.25 after saves
12 MF attacks, 6 hits, 4 wounds, 2.66 wounds 1 Dead Snake

That's 5-4 for the MFC, Snakes take no wounds in combat resolution.
2.16 Wounds on Snakes, 0.45 Wound on Mournfangs

Turn 2
9 Guards attacks, 6 hits, 3 wounds, 0.83 after saves
12 Snakes attacks, 4 hits + 2 poison, 4.66 wounds, 1.94 wounds after saves => another Dead MF

7 Ogres attacks, 3.5 hits, 1.75 wounds, 0.875 after saves 1 Dead Snake
8 MF attacks, 4 hits, 2.66 wounds, 1.77 after saves

3-2 for Snakes or 2-2 doesn't matter, MFC has lost its musician. Ld 6 test for them to stay
1.805 wounds on snakes, 0.22 wound on Mournfangs

Turn 3
7 Guard attacks, 4.66 hits, 2.33 wounds, 0.65 after saves
9 Snakes attacks, 3 hits + 1.5 poison, 3.5 wounds, 1.46 after saves

7 Ogres attacks, 3.5 hits, 1.75 wounds, 0.875 after saves
8 MF attacks, 4 hits, 2.66 wounds, 1.77 after saves 1 Dead Snake

2-2 is a draw
1.45 wounds on snakes, 2.33 wounds on Mournfangs

Turn 4 and on things continue to be very close

My conclusion :

It's a pretty fair match imo, it can easily go both ways depending on the rolls, but the deciding factor is clearly who gets the charge. If Mournfangs get the charge they'll probably murder the knights, otherwise they'll lose in the war of attrition.

If they have the DHB it changes the matchup completely, as MFC will attack first in the second round of combat, killing a snake instead of losing a MF first.

On the other hand, this is without taking into consideration any other factor. And the powerful TK Magic phases is a big one, as almost any buff on snakes will make this an easy fight.

So, that should teach you not to undertake such a foolish combat again then, eh?

Uh, yeah, that's what I said in the part of the text you left unquoted. And I don't think I have ever seen Mournfang Cavalry on the run, my opponent is the devil when it comes to throwing Ld tests.

Far2Casual: nice breakdown of the combat, but the serpents are Ws 3, so you need to adjust down their number of hits by 1/3.

Sry for that, I've updated the numbers.

It does not change much for turns 1 & 2, turns 3 and on are more draws than knights wins. Poison is the biggest factor for Snakes btw. It does not change anything to the conclusions though.