Tk Rumours? Or Wishlist?

This is either rumours or maybe a wishlist...who knows... but i'll post it anyway:



Special rules:

Undead:
The rule stays the same except for the sentence regarding to the charge reactions: Undeads may not choose to flee as a charge reaction.

The curse:
If a Tomb King or Prince is killed, the model or unit responsible for his death is hit by the curse. This is either the model (or part of model) or unit in case of usual warriors who caused the final wound (it is irrelevant in which way) or, if the character was killed by the combat resolution, every enemy unit and model engaged in the combat. The models and units hit by the curse must immediately take a leadership test on their own leadership minus 2 (minus 1 in case of a Prince). If the test is failed, the model (or part of model) or unit looses D6 wounds with no safes of any kind (not even a ward safe or regeneration) allowed. In case of units or models with different parts which are hit because the character was killed by the combat resolution, the wounds are distributed like shooting.

Embalmed:
Tomb Kings and Princes are mummified in dry bandages and inflammable oils. They are flammable.

My will be done!:
At the beginning of each own magic phase, the Tomb King or Prince and his unit get an extra movement phase at a roll of 3+ (4+ in case of a prince) on a D6. No unit can get more than one movement phase in a magic phase, no matter how many Princes and Kings are attached to the unit. However, if one King or Prince fails his roll, another one may try.

Master of the dead:
If a Liche Priests or a Liche High Priest rolls a miscast, the spell simply doesn’t work with no further effect.

Armed to the teeth:
The Bone Giant Elder carrys two hand weapons, a great weapon, a giant bow and a shield he wears heavy armour, standing up from the grave prepared for every battle.

Undead construct:
An undead construct has a 4+ armour safe which can be combined with amour and shield as well as magic resistance (2). Furthermore, every undead construct (i.e. Bone Giant, Bone Giant Elder, Tomb Scorpion and every single Ushabti in a unit) adds an extra +1 to the combat resolution. An undead construct has neither flanks nor a back but always counts as fighting in the front. Still a unit of Ushabti is not turned to face the opponent with the front but keeps the formation. The enemy simply gets no bonuses for fighting in the flank or back. Note that bone giants (and elders) don’t get a hand weapon & shield bonus.

Corpseguard:
If a Liche Priest or Liche High Priest is attached to a unit with this special rule, he can never be targeted by shooting and may always use the Look out Sir! Rule. In fact, for the purpose of being hit by ranged attacks, the Priest is treated as if the unit was at least 5 models big.

Ritual Blades:
All Ushabti attacks count as being magical. They always get a +1 bonus to hit in close combat.

Stone Keepers:
Ushabti are massive statues made from the hardest stone. Ushabti count as if they were wearing light armour. In addition, enemies charging Ushabti loose all charging bonuses. So they cause no impact hits, loose weapon bonuses (such as for lances), don’t automatically strike first and loose all charging special rules they might have.

Incantations of the dead

The secret incantations: The following three incantations are known to all Liche Priests and Liche High Priests. There is no possibility for Tomb Kings or Princes to learn these Incantations.

Incantation of summoning. Cast on 4+
Choose one friendly unit, single model, or character (even in a unit) in 12”. If successfully cast, the chosen target immediately retrieves D3 wounds lost. A unit of Graveguards retrieves D6 wounds (thus models), a unit of Skeletons retrieves 2D6 wounds. Champions, standard bearers and musicians are retrieved first, in this order. In all other cases you may distribute the wounds among a unit at wish (for example between a skull catapult and the crew), still retrieving complete models in case of models with several wounds. Note that you can’t rise the units or models wounds or models above the initial value.

Incantation of urgency. Cast on 4+
Choose one friendly unit, single model, or character (even in a unit) in 12”. If successfully cast, the chosen target immediately gets a second movement phase. Note, that a unit can be moved by this invocation only once in a magic phase. Also note that a unit which was moved by “My will be done” may not be moved by this invocation in the same magic phase.

Incantation of righteous smiting. Cast on 4+
Choose one friendly unit, single model, or character (even in a unit) in 12”. If successfully cast, the chosen target immediately gets a second shooting phase (in addition to the one following). If the unit is engaged in close combat, every model may immediately deal out one attack with all boni and mali it would have in the following close combat phase. Note, that in case of models with different parts, each part may deal out one attack. For example a light chariot would deal out two attacks from the two skeletons and two attacks from the skeleton steeds. Also note that this invocation may be used to absorb the effect of a misfire 2 or three of a catapult in the previous shooting phase. It won’t fire in the magic phase but may fire as usual in the following shooting phase. A unit can be affected by this incantation only once in a magic phase.

The common incantations: The following three incantations can be known to Liche Priests, Liche High Priests, a Tomb King (if he is a wizard) or a Tomb Prince with the holy scroll of dark secrets (magic item making him a level 1 wizard). These incantations are randomly determined as usual. Liche High Priests know two of the common incantations, Lich Priests, Tomb Kings and the Tomb Prince know only one of the common incantations. As usual, all wizards can swap one of their spells for the first one, the Incantation of Bane.

Incantation of bane. Cast on 8+
Choose one enemy model or part of model in case of models with different parts as for example a hero on a monster in 12”. No restrictions on the choice of targets apply. Parts of models that can never be hit, such as a knights horse or a chariot crew, can not be chosen as a target of course. If successfully cast, the chosen target must immediately take a toughness-test and an initiative-test. If one of the tests is failed, the target looses D6 wounds with no safes of any kind (not even a ward safe or regeneration) allowed.

Incantation of rotting vermin. Cast on 7+
Magic missile. Range 18”. Causes 3D6 strength 1 hits with the killing blow special rule.

Incantation of eternal flight. Cast on 5+
Can only be cast on the wizard himself. The wizard is immediately teleported to any place on the field. This way, the wizard may even leave a close combat but not enter one. Simply take the wizard model and place it anywhere on the field with at least 1” distance to enemy models. The wizard may be attached to a friendly unit as long as it isn’t engaged in close combat. If the wizard is riding a skeletal steed, the steed is lost and the wizard appears on foot. If the wizard is riding in the chariot, he leaves the chariot an appears on foot. He can not ascent the chariot again (not even by this incantation). The chariot is now driven by the skeleton only, however if the chariot it a magical one, it keeps its magical properties even without the character.

Armoury

Light chariot
Not changed

Giant bow
Counts as a Bow. Shoots like a spear-thrower. May move and shoot. May stand and shoot. Always hits on 5+.

Viperbow
Counts as a Bow. Always hits on 5+.

The casket of souls
Only one casket per army.
Casket Guards: WS increased by 1, wear heavy armour and great weapons (Tomb Blades).
The casket: The casket of souls is a war machine. It can not move. It can not be destroyed. Only Priests and High Priests may be attached to the Casket. Shooting is randomised between the casket and the crew, ignoring hits against the casket.
When both casket guards are destroyed and there is no Priest or High Priest attached to the Casket anymore at the beginning of an own magic phase, the casket crumbles to dust giving the opponent its victory points.
Spirit Souls: The casket of souls adds 3 dispel dice to the players pool.
The light of death: At the end of each Tomb Kings magic phases, if at least one Priest or High Priest is attached to it, the casket may be opened. Roll one D6 for every enemy unit or model in line of sight of the casket. At a roll of 4+ (2+ if the target has a line of sight to the casket) someone in the unit turned his eyes on the infernal light. Throw 2D6+2 and deduct the units own unmodified leadership (attached characters LD may be used) from the total. This is the number of wounds the unit or model looses with no safes of any kind (not even a ward safe or regeneration) allowed. The wounds are distributes like shooting.
Terror: The casket causes Terror.

Lords

Tomb King
Profile not changed
Weapons and armour: Hand weapon
Magic: A Tomb King is not a wizard. However he may be upgraded to a level 1 wizard for ? Points, using the incantations of the dead.
Options: May carry a flail or a great weapon.
May wear light armour or, if on foot, heavy armour.
May carry a shield.
May ride a skeletal steed or ride in a light chariot, displacing one of the skeletal crew.
May be equipped with magic items with a limit of 100 Points.
Special rules: The curse, Embalmed, My will be done!, Undead

Liche High Priest
Profile not changed
Weapons and armour: Hand weapon
Magic: A Liche High Priest is a level 4 wizard, using the incantations of the dead.
Options: May ride a skeletal steed.
May be equipped with magic items with a limit of 100 Points.
May take a casket of souls to battle.
Special rules: Master of the dead, Undead

Heroes

Tomb Prince
Profile: Strength increased by 1.
Weapons and armour: Hand weapon
Options: May carry a flail or a great weapon.
May wear light armour or, if on foot, heavy armour.
May carry a shield.
May ride a skeletal steed or ride in a light chariot, displacing one of the skeletal crew.
May be equipped with magic items with a limit of 50 Points.
May be the battle standard bearer. In this case he may get a magic banner without a point limit instead of other magic items.
Special rules: The curse, Embalmed, My will be done!, Undead

Liche Priest
Profile not changed
Weapons and armour: Hand weapon
Magic: A Liche Priest is a level 2 wizard, using the incantations of the dead.
Options: May ride a skeletal steed.
May be equipped with magic items with a limit of 50 Points.
May take a casket of souls to battle.
Special rules: Master of the dead, Undead

Bone Giant Elder
Profile: 6 4 2 6 6 7 2 5 9
Equipment: A lot. See special rule Armed to the teeth.
Options: May be the battle standard bearer. In this case he may get a magic banner without a point limit.
Special rules: Undead construct, Armed to the teeth, Big, Terror

Core units

Skeleton warriors
Profile not changed
Weapons and armour: Hand weapon, Viperbow
Unit size: 10+
Options: May exchange their Viperbows for Spears.
May get spears in addition to their Viperbows.
May wear light armour.
May carry a shield.
Upgrade one Skeleton warrior to a champion.
Upgrade one Skeleton warrior to a standard bearer.
Upgrade one Skeleton warrior to a musician.
Special rules: Undead, Corpseguard

Skeleton horsemen
Profile: Skeletons with WS3 and LD4; Skeletal steeds not changed
Weapons and armour: Hand weapon, Viperbow
Unit size: 5+
Options: May exchange their Viperbows for Spears.
May get spears in addition to their Viperbows.
May wear light armour.
May carry a shield.
Upgrade one Skeleton horseman to a champion.
Upgrade one Skeleton horseman to a standard bearer.
Upgrade one Skeleton horseman to a musician.
Special rules: Undead, Light cavalry, Corpseguard

Tomb swarm
Nothing changed

Grave Guard
Profile not changed.
Unit size not changed
Weapons and armour: Heavy armour, shield, hand weapon
Options: Not changed
Special rules: Not changed

Light chariot unit
One unit of light chariot per King or Prince in the army counts as a core unit. Every further unit counts as special unit.
Nothing changed

Special units

Carrions
Profile: Strength increased by 1.
Unit size not changed
Special rules: Not changed

Tomb Scorpion
Nothing changed except for the changes in the “Undead construct” rule.

Ushabti
Profile not changed
Unit size: 1-6
Weapons and armour: Huge ritual blades [count as Halberds]
Options: Upgrade one Ushabti to a champion. [+1 A]
Upgrade one Ushabti to a standard bearer.
May get a magical standard up to 25 Points.
Upgrade one Ushabti to a musician.
Special rules: Ritual Blades, Stone Keepers, Undead construct, Undead

Rare units

Screaming Skull Catapult
Nothing changed

Bone Giant
Profile: WS increased by 1, BS2.
Equipment: Two hand weapons, heavy armour
Options: May change his two hand weapons for a great weapon
May carry a shield.
May carry a giant bow.
Special rules: Undead construct, Large Target, Terror, Undead

Magic Items
There is not a list of magic items yet, only some design notes on the task:

Holy scroll of dark secrets – Princes only – level 1 wizard ~45 points
Some item adding 1 or 2 to M at very low costs ~5 points
A first strike great weapon.
Destroyer of Eternities to be changed.
Fail of Skulls is in and cheaper.
Serpent Staff to be changed.
Scorpion armour is out.
Crown of Kings to be changed - +1 dispel dice. ~25 points
Collar of shapesh is in.
Chariot of fire to be changed – stronger and more expensive.
Cloak of the dunes is out.
Arkane Items to be redone.
Icon of Rakaph is in.
Some magic banner adding +2 or +W3 to the combat result. ~50 points

Part of me want to say playtest for the fact that we may be sooner rather than later. But I really don't like the way the magic works. I like the fact that it always goes off and never IF or Miscast. Oh, and Ushabti are badass.

This looks like the same thing that was posted at Warseer.

At best, I'd say that this is a very early "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" style list. At worst, I'd say that it's a hoax.

I agree with Eumerin on this one

Some part of the rules are to weird like the Stone Keepers rule for exemple or a spell casting D6 with no saves


and if they put these rules trough , Tomb Kings will be overpowerd , a lot
like lizzies with their engine

Greets

A bit my opinion also, but i guess it will start some discussion

Who really cares if it's fabricated? The rumors have begun! This is the exciting time right before an army book. The 'bich hour' is upon us.

I saw the same things on Asrai. It is really incomplete and unbelievable right now. Tomb Scorpions got better? lol. Skellies remain the same points aparently. And it's not very clear on how the magic works. Surely there are more spells than 3.

Things I liked about it tho, is that The Curse is really bad @ss. And that our spells are listed from 'most difficult to cast' to easiest. That makes the base spell the big daddy spell.

Oh, and 'Grave' Guard are core, but just stink now? Whoever made this garbage up should take the time to make it more believable..

Brunth

Wow.... what to say about this list?

I could indeed live with quite a large portion of it actually...

A few poinst that rankle and prove(to me at least) the oddity and likely hoax nature of the list:
Gravegaurd as core-and they suck.
Ushabit's sheer number of rules and unkillability
Bone Hiant Elder, BSB, can't see that happening...

And of course, the magic just seems off....

Still it's nice to be noticed.

This seems way too far over the top to be real. I'm not buyin it.

Its actually a fake. Somebody on one of the other websites out there already confirmed this. A nice fake, but still a fake. The guy who wrote it was doing ok with the hoax until he got to the Ushabti. Went a little overboard there.

Now if you see something like this for the Skaven you should take it alot more serious. As Skaven are coming very soon. Any leaks for them could vary well be legit.

Oh we knew it was fake.

It was just nice to know someone cared enough to fake it.

Well, there is probably some truth in some of it. I hope they don't mess up the TK magic phase by making it like everyone elses in warhammer.

Yeah , I really like that Tomb King are diffrent then the other races ,
makes us a bit special , and it gives us an advantage on tournies

Even official GW playtest documents for something as far off as the Tomb Kings book almost certainly is are essentially worthless at this point for predicting what will be in the final product.

Magic won't be changed, we'll still get our power level style and no "casting spells", that's what makes TK different and they must keep this.

That Incantation of Bane was awesome, maybe at 15+ it would be a possibility, no way as it is now though.

Ushabti are good, just no command and no halberd, simply S6 as they are now.
Also, construct rule, delete the "+1 combat" thing and it's good.

Tomb guards should be counted as constructs and keep their light armour, still makes for 1+ save in close combat and 2+ VS shooting, raise points of them to 13. I think that would make them worth taking, also keeping them special, no way they are core.

Skeletons receive light armour as base equipment, along with a bow that can be changed for shield at no cost, points kept the same.

Tomb Kings do not need a lot of changes, a new magic item list and make incantations more powerful, perhaps giving all skeletons WS3 to prove they're better fighters than VC skeletons. However, we should never be able to raise above the starting strength. Also, Casket needs to be way more powerful, kinda liked how it was here, but should be 2D6+3 insteas of +2.

I think TK will be made awesome, at least I hope so.

My wishlist would be:
-Power up the incantation of vengeance (doesn't have to be much, maybe S5) to make it actually worth casting. I might want to change its name to make it some kind of curse, fits the flavour better.
-Change our battle standard rules OR put some decent high points banners in the item list to make an icon bearer worth taking.
-More character mounts. especially the abilty to put a prince/king on a steed. But what I'd certainly like to see is the ability to put character on a scorpion (losing ICFB obviously). I really don't want anything that doesn't fit the fluff, like this skeletal dragon talked too much about.
-The option to give a king/prince a tomb blade.
-A rule like the vampiric rule, to enable our units to march if they're within a set number of inches of a prince or king.
-There's more, but I don't hve the time to type it all ATM.

Even official GW playtest documents for something as far off as the Tomb Kings book almost certainly is are essentially worthless at this point for predicting what will be in the final product.

Yeah, I doubt it will look like what was posted but to say it was worthless, I dont' agree with that.

TK don't need a lot of changes but they do need some to keep them up with the other armies.

I believe that tomb guard need heavy army. It seems like GW is toning down the amount of S7 in the armies but making more S6. Tomb Guard don't get an amour save against S6 attacks.

If they change the magic phase it will probably ruin the army. We would just become a watered down version of the vampires.

I just hope they do something special with the chariots , it is the Tomb Kings pride and joy after all.

Light chariots as core with the same stats only with D3+1 inpact hits and lower points costs for the command upgrades

Royal chariots as rare or maybe 1 unit per King , that are treated as heavy cav with D6 strenght 5 and a decent armour save

More tricky magic Items and of course even more monsters

Greets

At least it got some discussion going

Ohh I just can't wait for GW to work on the TK's. However, I'm one of those that are against GW making the armies as they go. I find they should make all the armies and then release at the same time. Many are complaining that the still 6 edition armies are having a hard time.

What I would love to see:

I thought that the Tomb Scorpion should lose his killing blows. How many times in tournaments did my scorpion would pop up, charge, attack and kill the general in a unit with killing blows. Specially it was brutal for VC.

Ushabti should have regenaration

I do hope they will chage the skelletons and tomb guards because they look too cartoon. VC have nicer one's why not TK's?

I don't think the Tomb Scorpion will lose its rules, I'm of the opinion that it's points should be hiked up a bit, maybe 95 or a 100.

People have often said that our skeletons should get weapon skill 3 over the vampire counts as they remember their training. To me weapon skill is not entirely the way they wield the blade but, also with the speed in which they do it so i think WS2 should stay the same.

The impression I get from Tomb Kings is that although they have a very strong Egyptian theme, they're ranked infantry remind me of the roman infantry more than anything. And to this i'd like to see them use different abilities to represent them 'remembering' their training.

I'd like to see SW with HW and shield be able to get an additional +1 parry bonus to represent that they were trained as a unit and not as individuals. This would be one skeleton parrying for another skeleton.

SW with spears get the option to set their spears against a cavalry charge, only the front rank of spears can use this option. If opted to use it the second rank may not fight in the first round of combat. It would give auto hits and +1 str. This would last in the first round of combat only and it would work like chariot impact hits, ie, before combat and randomised as shooting. The skeletons may not make normal attacks this round.

I dunno, just seems odd to me that, an army so devoted to military tactics hasn't developed unique fighting abilities other than that of the hack n slash everyone else employs.

Having read Nagash the sorceror I was really inspired by the Ushabti in Chariots, I mean c'mon! AWESOME!

However, I do believe as Semerkhet said, we could get a royal chariot unit, such as chariots ridden by tomb guards or something like that. I do think we'll get that though..

As I understood it when I read Nagash the Ushabti that are being referred to are not the animated constructs the modern Undead Kings know today but rather the traditional bodyguard of the Kings (i.e. humans). The only difference is they've spent a life time honing their combat skills and are blessed by the gods to have superhuman strength and other qualities.

At least, I assumed they were human in spite of the 'Ushabti' moniker since the author never describes them as unliving constructs of stone but rather as blessed humans. After all, when Nagash's father's household is being entombed the Ushabti drink the poison too and are buried alongside him...

That's the way it is, yeah. They did mention they were blessed by the gods and had to serve the king forever.
Sounds a bit like tomb guards to me, better fighters than regulars and killing blow and such, could easily be the "bless" thing kickin' in there.

Yeah, Ushabti in Nagash the Sorcerer are the King's elite bodyguards, although they seem to vary in armament from City to city. The Ka'Saba ushabti seem to wield great weapons.

So what do you think the chances of them putting a Lybaran Sky ship in the next army book are