1500 Points, The essentials...

I'm keen to hear everyone's opinions on what is required for a successful 1500 point list. Obviously everyone will have a different idea however please chime in as I'd love to hear your thoughts.

I think a level 4 is critical at this points level for spell selection and secondly to magic defense. It's a lot of points but as we know the Tomb Kings rely on it fairly extensively.

Jumping straight from Lords I'll go to Rare choices and I think combined with the level 4 we need the casket for a few reasons. Firslty the extra dice it gives us is critical to setting up a strong magic phase. Secondly light of death is great at this points level for dealing with sneaky units trying to get around the flanks. At this points level there are going to be less units and they'll possibly be more spread out and hopefully away from the BSB.

Onto core choices, Its really no different from 2500 points, so your fill of 375 of archers/chariots/horse archers.

Special I guess is there the variety will come into play. Warsphinxes are extremely tough at this points level purely because your opponent will have less options to deal with the threat. I'd also like to see how a big unit of snakes would go as well.

Would love to hear everyones ideas on what makes a solid 1500 point list.

i feel like for the most part i agree with you on everything.
except, for the level 4 thought.
2 level twos or even one i feel is just as good.
in fact recently i've just been thinking of running a whole crap load of level 1's to spam on signature spells and keep the good ones.
that way you basically just have a bunch of unit healers in the army and a couple of buffs you can save till the end to try and get off.
i don't feel like a level 4 is as necassary as you say or might believe.
the warsphinx for sure is great at low points because it's just tough as nails!
and the casket of souls should be in every list of Tomb Kings, hands down.
my favorite unit in the game really.

Why do you feel that way?

the lvl4 has over 2lvl2's (or 4 lvl1's):
Casting bonus
Dispell bonus
A toughness more

The lvl2's have over the lvl4:
Possibly range (they can be in two places at once)
Possibly 2 lores to chose from
An extra arcane item slot
An extra channel attempt


Now, my intuition is that the casting bonus is better than the channel attempt, and that you can't fix this by buying some kind of arcane item. The range, I don't know if that makes it worth it for you, but for me it doesn't (you'll just see that if I don't keep the guys central, I need dessication at the wrong side of the board).

So the only consideration for me could be the choice of an extra lore. Now, with death you can be sure of the signature, which is great anyway, but otherwise the splitlore will give you such a huge spread in the usefullness of your spell that you just can't hope for anything anymore. a lvl2 khemri has a significantly smaller chance of getting smitting AND dessication, (which everybody needs ) etc etc

So why is it you feel two lvl2s is as good?

I agree with the L4 sentiment. That guaranteed bonus to dispel and cast is so valuable. Splitting them can save the eggs in one basket problem. For me that's not enough goodness in comparison.

At this points level (well - any points level really), the Casket and the Hierotitan are interchangeable in terms of usefulness for mine. Lately I've been favouring the titan - those +d3's just contribute so much through the phase. Then once it's game on in combat, he can combo charge with a Sphinx and SMASH FACE!!! (or whiff completely of course....)

Overall, a 1500 pointer for me would include:

L4
Hierotitan
Warsphinx
Archer bunker
4 Flaming Chariots
3 Stalkers

then

400-ish points on a block of Tomb Guard block, Necroknights or Bowshabti.

man, does that fit?
chariots+lvl4+titan+stalkers+sphinx ~ 950
damn our army is overpowered

ya ok, so I would go either this way:

core: 386 points
-4 flaming chariots
-21 archers, musician, banner
special: 555 points
-4 knights, banner
-20 TG, halberd, banner, banner of speed
rare: 135 points
-casket
characters: 424 points
-prince GW
-ramotheb
-lvl4

total 1500 (but with a special character)

or:
core: 380 points
-4 flaming chariots
-20 archers, musician, banner
special: 600
-6 bowshabti
-6 bowshabti
Rare:310
-casket
-titan
character: 210
-lvl4

total 1500

i just feel as though magic is not as important as a lot of people hype that it is for Tomb Kings.

my 2000 point list only has a level one and the casket
and it does just fine, infact one of my battle reports with it is how i wrecked a mournfang unit and a big mamoth guy and a man eater squad with such list, and i was rolling only average maybe not even?!
granted the level 1 is settra though :b

I'm not doubting it can be done jlay and in fact your level 1 is Settra isn't 'average' as he's certainly not as easy to take out as a level 1 priest sitting in a unit of archers.

I guess it all comes down to army theme/flavour and what you want your army to do.

For me a level 4 is critical, I think having magic dominance is one of the keys to victory for us.

I'm not sure on the usefulness of the Hierotitan as this points level however especially when you don't have a second caster. He is the best investment when you have 2+ characters going crazy with spells. I understand he's awesome, I'm just not sure how awesome at 1500.

I was toying with this list last night which could cause some dramas for some lists however it would perhaps struggle against others:

Level 4 – scroll, - 235
4 Chariots – Std, Flaming – 240
30 x Archers – Std, Mus
2 x Warsphinx – 460
Casket - 135
Necrosphinx - 230

Bit gimmicky I'll give you that.

Another one I wouldn't mind trying out:

Level 4 – 210 (add a cheap item)
4 Chariots – Std, Flaming – 240
25 x Archers – Std, - 160
Casket - 135
6 x knights - Std, Mus - 410
2 x 3 x stalkers - 165

Thoughts?

Great discussion however, keep it going!

i said average as in rolling average, i know that settra is probably the most B.A. liche priest you can take only because he actually has a save and can rock face in combat!

Settras the man!

and i personally like the first list better!

back in the day, the first sleboda-optimism-revival () was fueled by experiments with magic-light lists. so it can be done.

can we re-invent the wheel? what are we looking at?
The minimum is 70 points for a lvl1.
The basic magic kit = lvl4+casket+scroll = 370 points.
the extreme magic kit is something like 2xlvl4+scroll+stone+casket+titan = 775 points (!)

now, ask yourself, what am I not buying of this, what does that cost, and what do I get in return?

And: do you have the nerve to drop those things? after all, the casket is a nice warmachine as well, and especially in a magic light army, bringing it means you get to sixdice it every turn. about the same goes for the titan. but when you have those two... it becomes very tempting to bring a mage with some spell anyway!

taking a single lvl1 rather than a lvl4 nets you 140 points (and you HAVE to bring the lvl1). What will you do with those points, Jlay? It costs you effective magic support for your army, which might not be crucial, but very nice to have for such a low price. what will you trade it for? 20 archers? half a sphinx? 3 ushabti? is it worth it?

I'm genuinly interested in how you look at that?

I was literally just playing around with this list in my head but the one glaring weakness I don't like is there is only 11 bodies protecting the hierophant.

Prince – Chariot, GW, AOP - 209
LP - Scroll, - 95
5 Chariots – Std, Flaming – 295
11x Archers – Std 76
2 x Warsphinx – 460
Casket - 135
Necrosphinx - 230

Just not sure if the GW cost is accurate as I don't have my book with me. Sure cannons can take out the chariots but then they're left with Sphinxes. If they concentrate on the sphinxes then they've got a decent chariot block bearing down on them. 6 dice the casket each turn and go from there.

in my opinion it is really.
i would probably spend it on a catapult and various little uprgrades like banners and musicians to all my core.
6 dicing the casket is the best way to make sure you get the full effect from it and it also scares the crap out of your oppenent :b
the remaing dice you use on say your two level twos? to one or two dice spells when your next to your hierotitan that really matter.
i really like the flexibility but basically same amount of spell choice out of two level twos verse the level 4 and i can get more magic items out of it for the same price? it's a win win i believe. the only thing that really hampers it is the ability to not dispell as well. it just means you have to pick and choose what the most threatening spell your oppenent is gonna cast will be.

a casket, two mages and two level2's is not excactly magic light, but ok .
also: You find a catapult better than the difference between a lvl4 and a lvl1? why?

I still don't get why you like two lvl2's better than a lvl4. is it:
-the extra arcane slot? (and if so, because of which item you then take extra?)
-the extra lore option (and if so, which lore?)
-the ability to be at to places at once with spells (and if so, how does this come back in your deployment?)
-the ability to take dual nehek-signature (and if so... if so: what?)

and why is your choice better than a +2 on casting and a +2 on dispelling?

Been thinking about this, wondering why I like the Titan.

I see the d3 spell bonus from the Titan vs the d3 extra Power Dice from the Casket as being approximately equal, once you have a Level 4. Once there's two Level 4's, I see it as greater. Debatable, but hey.

I see the two possible bound spells from the Titan vs the Light of Death as being a win to the Casket, but only just. So many well organised armies just don't give much of a toss about the Casket. But the threat of it is immense, even for those armies that should just ignore it and hope for the best. Against a canny general, that threat may dissipate. And of course, it always relies on a good Power Dice roll.

Where the Titan really wins for mine, and especially at the lower points levels, is the ability to combo charge with the Sphinx. With the type of list I posted in this thread earlier, I would have the large Special block front and centre, archer bunker behind, Chariots one flank, both Monsters other flank. Many enemy units, especially at smaller points levels where the units are unlikely to be too enormous, are going to seriously dislike a double Monster charge.

We have a decent magic phase. Where I feel we struggle is in combat. The option of having a big fat double Monster smash, while giving up very little in the magic trade off, swings the option to the Titan for me.

a casket and two level twos is light compared to others who bring 2 level 4's and a bunch of level 2's and 1's? what are they gonna do with all that when they only get 12 dice at max a turn? it's pointless to load up on magic.
and a catapult is better because it isn't magic and the oppenent can't dispel it? sure it might misfire but as many dice as you throw at your level 4 all the time you could miscast there too?
and nearly ever reason you've stated makes them better.
you get extra arcane slots, which helps everyone, personally i go dispell scroll and enkhils kannopi, i usually spam signature lore because healing the army although people might hate on how ineffective it can be is really one of the strong suits of the army, the flexibilty of position means you can grant buffs on opposite ends of the field when you have to, and you can spam some healing with two bubbles of healing instead of one. and +2 to cast and dispell +2 isn't that big of a deal, just because we have to take a wizard doesnt mean that we are a magic dependant army, yes every army can use and benefits from some magic and im not saying that it isn't a benefit and that it doesn't help but it isn't completely necassary to spam the ###### out of it to make a list that can hold it's own and do well.

Ok, so clearly the magic and what casters to run is a touchy subject.

Onto Core choices, at 1500 does everyone just run archers or archers and a unit of chariots?

I'm going to playtest the 1500 3 sphinx list I think tomorrow but I can't help but feel at that points level a unit of stalkers would be a great investment. Time will tell!

it's not touchy haha i understand why krael is questioning me so much.
it's just in the few games i played putting ally my magic in one level 4 never really helped me and when he miscast it was basically game over.

and i really like chariots, they knock some units out with impact hits and with some buffs could potentially even knock tough units out. (talking bout smiting and cursed blades : do we get the killing blow buff on our impact hits? they are close combat attacks as described in the rule book? albiet unusal ones.

yeah! Jlay clearly has thought his prefference through. If I stopped at the initial "you guys value lvl4s too much," I wouldn't believe him, ignore him and then learn nothing. asking more questions is more better ^^

Chariots at low points are very nice. they indeed do benifit from cursed blades, and get lots of attacks from smiting, and in addition they heal a chariot per cast spell. the syergy with the TK magic fase is as strong as it gets.

Got 3 x 1500 point games in today against a tough Empire build. First one is in the battle reports/army diary forum guys, check them out.