Defensive King, does it work?

I'm not a fan of the TK. I don't think he gets a chance to do his job unless he's on a chariot, and often he's too easy to kill.

I have been thinking of running one, however, with the tricksters helm and the talisman of preservation. Has anyone used this combo? How well does the king hold up in combat vs st3 st4 st5 units?

Not a bad setup but all you have left is perhaps a great weapon. Other combos include fencers blades, glittering scales, and a 5+ ward. I played against a slaughter master with the fencer/scales combo and it was nearly impossible to hit since I only hit on 6s and he's in a gutstar. That was rough.

i think sleb has some numbers floatin around somewhere about the helm, but here's what i reccon is the best defensive kit IMO.

Blade of Anthrak, Dragonbane Gem, and Armor of silvered steel.

regains wounds, magic weapon, 2+ armor save, and after the first turn he should have a 4+ regen worst, 2+ ward best.

Yes, you could get Kb'd before the regen is up, and yes someone could say, do a few wounds before you strike so you are only replenishing wounds, but hell you're still regaining wounds so i wouldnt sweat it.

you don't get regen against KB.

I always run a king with glittering scales and a gem, thats pretty much always been a given for me. If i feel like further increasing his survivability, i like to give him fencers blades so that most most units will be hitting him on 6's.

This combo is fantastic because SMs are immune to poison. A king with no ward and barely any armour save will be slaughtered by poisoned attacks.

My reasoning on taking the Helm at times is that it is, essentially, a 2+ ward save vs S3 attacks and a 3+ ward save vs S4. Those two are the most common S values he will encounter. Even S5 still makes for a 4+ ward.

The reason I tend to avoid the Fencer's Blades is that I don't have any mummy models with two hand weapons and I don't want to make on at this time, otherwise, yeah, that's pretty cool.

does the enemy rrolls the KB if they get it? thats huge

Of course they re-roll it. It's still a to-wound roll, so they re-roll it.

Now, the danger, of course, is that any 5's that wound have wounded him are also re-rolled and could turn into 6's, and thus KBs. Doh!

Yeah, the Trickster's Helm actually magnifies the probabilities of a KB on a low-S attack. Still, a high chance of whiffing on the wound altogether means it's worth it.

A low S model already needs a 6 to wound. How does making that model re-roll the 6 make it a magnified chance of KB?

ha nicely put there, sleb! its not the anti_KB gear as I thought it would be...

This actually happened to me once. My necroknights went to kill an orc character and he had that item. The rider got a 5 to wound, rerolled it and got a 6 and KBed him. I don't think he's taken that item since.

Remember that the helm doesn't make the opponent to re-roll failed to wound rolls. this means that before a KB can be landed, they must make one successful to wound roll. This way (assuming T5), a S3 hit with KB will only become a KB 1/6 * 1/6 of the time, while a S7 hit with KB will be a KB 5/6 * 1/6 of the time.

I am stuggling with this same problem, I thought well I will take the Tricksters Helm and Blade of Antarhak, but this leaves the TK on foot without a Armour Save or a ward against flaming attacks. I can get a ward save if I manage to cast Incantation of Protection on the unit of Tomb Guard he is in, so maybe it is better to take Armour of Silvered Steel and Dragonbane Gem, with the Blade of Antarhak. The Tricksters Helm just doesn't work that well against lot's of Killing Blow attacks or poison.

I am probably going to go with:

Blade of Antarhak
Armour of Silvered Steel
Dragonbane Gem

It is almost like GW wants our Kings to die

Yep, that's why I think the best defensive setup we can use is Trickster Helm and Talisman of Preservation. That's like two 4+ ward most of the time, and even better against rank and files.

You can then add a great weapon, or is you feel the need for a magical weapon, the Warrior Bane might be good too. While you fight another character you slowly strip him of his attacks, making you harder to kill over time!

And with a shield on a chariot, you get a 3+ save on top of that, that's should help a bit too!

Yep, that's why I think the best defensive setup we can use is Trickster Helm and Talisman of Preservation. That's like two 4+ ward most of the time, and even better against rank and files.

You can then add a great weapon, or is you feel the need for a magical weapon, the Warrior Bane might be good too. While you fight another character you slowly strip him of his attacks, making you harder to kill over time!

And with a shield on a chariot, you get a 3+ save on top of that, that's should help a bit too!

this was my thinking exactly. I rarely ever face KB, but at least with the ToP I have a 50/50 shot to save.

Right, got that backwards - it magnifies the risk of KB on high-Strength attacks, not low-Strength. Sorry about that.

Right, got that backwards - it magnifies the risk of KB on high-Strength attacks, not low-Strength. Sorry about that.

As I posted above, the worst case scenarios is going from a 6/36 chance of KB to a 5/36. The helm doesn't magnify anything, in any case. For each "4" it can turn into a "6", there is a "6" it turns into a "4", except for 1's: they are a fail and stay a fail.

My newest King:

Fencers Blade
Glittering Crown
Dragonbane Gem
Healing Potion

then a possible ward save from the LHP if I can get the spell off on my Tomb Guarf unit!

I kind of like that build, actually. It's definitely annoying to kill, that's for sure.

This is entirely metagame dependent. I haven't seen a Flaming Attack directed at my Kings since 8E dropped. The Dragonhelm and Dragonbane Gem quickly turned it to "stop wasting points trying to burn Nabu's royals...they're going to be practically immune." Of course they aren't always, but they are 90% of the time.

Since I don't usually field him, instead preferring some variant of King Bloodshed (who has a 2+ vs. Flaming always). King Unkillable is a wicked change up when used sporadically. The Blade of Antarhak to me is key to running a defensive King. You're going to take the random wound. There are simply too many attacks being throw about to not to...even at T5 (which the Helm helps mitigate against the low strength buzzsaws I see so much of like Corsairs and Plague Monks). I can't wait to start playing 3K+ games so I can plop a meatsa...err, non-BSB Herald next to him in the Armor of Destiny to eat more wounds.

I definitely see merit in rocking the Glittering Scales too. However, I see way more than my share of my opponents to re-roll misses...so I simply don't trust it (remembering Nabu is bad at mathammer). In fact, I think only Skaven, WoC and Lizardmen tend to lack it but those armies make up for that lack in other ways.