Tomb Swarms, Useless bugs or tactical godsends?

You don't hear much about these little critters, I was thinking of trying them out in my next game, they seem a little costly but I was wondering what thoughts folks have of them and their possible uses? I mean they're swarms, cause fear, have posioned attacks and can be put underground really make them appealing?

Here's my thing they always seem good on paper.. But then I get into battle and it's points I could have spent elswhere. I feel they lack any survivability.

they can be fielded. great against warmachines, not so great against everything else...

djef doesnt work on them because their poison messes up the killing blow.

on the other hand they can be healed D3+1. thats something u cant do with scorps. hooray big bubbles and swarms


one tip: when using a unit of 3 swarms and u successfully emerge from beneath the sands try this - put it in a 1x3 formation and touch the marker with the last swarm model from the last rank. u get a free reform since u are a skirmisher, and that means when u reform into a 3x1 u will get ~2" free + you can move 4" afterwards. = ~6" movement total

with a unit of 5 swarm thats a ~4" free reform move +4" move = ~8" movement

hell with a unit of 7 its a ~7" free reform move +4" move = ~11" movement when they emerge from sands

^ all this free movement cheese could not work, it depends how you define the word 'legal' (it say place it touching the marker in a legal formation)

Good thinking, teclis.

This unit needs all the help it can get to be fielded.

What you have described is 100% legal and I would have no problem using it or having it used against me.

Indeed they are a one trick pony, and that's the problem. They are great against war machines, and might even function against small units of archers. If your opponent isn't fielding these, you'd do better passing on them.

Despite teclis' good idea, I agree.

A unit of 2-4 was an auto-include in the last book. I would tunnel them if the opponent had machines, otherwise I would keep them in my own zone as protectors for my catapults.

Now I just really can't see the use.

High T low armor monsters, i.e. use them like skink shooting maybe? With a flank charge you ought to get 3 bases into contact. Of course getting that flank when we can't first turn charge anymore is the problem.

Regarding small units of archers, that could work as long as they're not elves. Anything high I eats these guys for breakfast.

this marker thing can be also done with scorps. just touch the marker with the corner of your base => pivot => wailla you got 0.4" free

@j.j. - the monster can march 12" and run away from ye. if u do charge him there is a big chance that he will strike before you (swarm is I1). this can mean a dead swarm model. so now u got 10/15A against him thats 2-3 wounds on average (poison and 15A counted). and then he thunderstomps you....

every archer unit has a bigger initiative then swarms. hell even thunderers and arrer boys strike before ye. initiative is not the issue here.


they are good for 2 things:
1) war machine hunting
2) providing a +3 for rear charge and inflicting some wounds in favor of your front_to_front battle of your unit and an enemy one.

i reckon big units can do this way better when Settra is around. WS7 swarms. cast a -1S/-1T and it gets better.

better


better


....but in the end its not good at all....

@sleboda - i was more of a 1_model_in_a_unit swarm guy 45 pts niiiice

I've had decent luck with them against Orcs (fanatic poppers) and they have been ok when they come up cooperatively as frenzy redirectors or unit stallers.

overall though they just seem to costly for what they are capable of. which is a pity, I was thinking if they turned out nicely I was going to take all the extra scarab/scorp bits I had from my stalkers and war kitties to make a few nifty scenic swarm bases.

Swarms have the same issue I have with scorps tunneling. If we could choose I'd still field both, have gambling with my units. If you have warmachines then yeah the gamble is worthwhile otherwise I don't want to see them off like that. Useful yes, used by me anymore? No.

I think when mentioning swarms, one also has to mention that in the last book they were core, and though they really weren't any worse than they are now, I took them occasionally to fill out my core choices. Unfortunately Rares and Specials are so important to any Tomb King's army, that even if you wanted to field a swarm, you would probably find yourself NEEDING to field something else instead.

They'd be awesome if they didn't have EBtS.
As it is the earliest they can do anything is turn 3.
Points are better spent elsewhere.

They would even be more awesome if you could field them in units of one, for sweet re-directors or speed bumps. As a unit of two, much less useful that way.

not true;
starting your turn two, they will be doing what they are meant to do: being cheap and lying in the way. Swarms should be fine redirectors, one of the best really, as you can choose the location later on. They wouldn't be able to do anything except being a drop if they hadn't had EBTS, because then they would never ever get anywhere .

Also you don't have to use the EBtS rule. The can still sqrt on the front line if you want.

Entombed Beneath The Sands
"A unit with this ability has the Ambushers Special rule, with the following exceptions." [goes on to list when, where, and how they come on to the battlefield but a choice to use this rule is not given]
Tomb Kings>Army Special Rules>Entombed Beneath the Sands
Ambushers
"A unit with the Ambushers rule does not deploy at the start of the battle."
Main Rulebook>Special Rules>Deployment Special Rules>Ambushers

In the current edition (8th); I don't believe you have a choice in this matter. According to what I've read; You must Deploy a unit who has 'Entombed Beneath The Sands' in the manner described in the Army Special Rules entry.

The old edition (6th?), however, did allow you to make that choice from what I hear. Although I can not confirm this since I'm unfamiliar with those rules and do not have access to a copy.

6ed:
'the scorpions/tomb swarms do not have to be deployed as the rest of the troops, and can use the 'It came from bellow' rule

pay attention to the bolded part

not true;
starting your turn two, they will be doing what they are meant to do: being cheap and lying in the way. Swarms should be fine redirectors, one of the best really, as you can choose the location later on. They wouldn't be able to do anything except being a drop if they hadn't had EBTS, because then they would never ever get anywhere .

I agree with this. Killing things and being pressing on offense is not the goal for every unit, especially Tomb Swarms, so the fact that they cannot charge before Turn 3 does not hurt them all that much. Although it certainly would be sweet if they could. I've used them several times with varying results. As has been said, their value is in the fact that can:

1) Potentially pop up anywhere on the board and redirect enemy units. When it works, there's really nothing like it as your opponent is 100% defenseless.
2) They can put pressure on light units (WM's, Archers, etc) either by forcing your opponent to target the Swarms or, if they don't take the bait, charge them in take them out or tie them up
3) Add a little combat rez to an existing battle by popping them up in the flank/rear, and eventually charging them in
4) Psychological factor - Whether they pop up or not, your opponent may be wary of the fact that you have swarms, which may force them to hold a unit back, deploy differently, or otherwise change his battle plans.

The biggest downside to Swarms is (obviously) that EBtS is not entirely reliable, and aside from Poison and lots of wounds and attacks, they are simply dreadful, statwise. So the investment in them is not without risks.

As a novelty - 10 Tomb Swarms can unleash 50 Poison Attacks in a building assault. This would neverevereverevereverever happen, but I belive that's the most attacks that 10 models can unleash in this situation.

As I said, I use them often enough, maybe in 30% of my battles. I once had a 1x2 unit hold up a horde of Hammerers for half a battle which essentially gave me free reign on the board. However, I usually favor Horse Archers since they are Core, and Special Points are invested in things that are much more of a no brainer than Swarms.

Um, Teclis, you do know that there's an 8th Edition Tomb Kings book, and that's what we're talking about, right?

I think Teclis was just confirming what I mentioned in the last paragraph of my last post. Teclis knows about the 8th edition

I think Teclis was just confirming what I mentioned in the last paragraph of my last post. Teclis knows about the 8th edition

thus was the 'bolded' part. in 6ed you had a choice - either deploy or 'come from bellow'

in this ed, however, as AegisGray explained in details you do not have a choice. its ambushers all the way