Those Poor Bastards, New Empire book

im glad mortar is nerfed. dunno why more points in troops.

OUR SKELIES ARE WS5. IN YOUR FACE EMPIRE!

my friend is thinking about switching from empire to halflings. that unoficial book looks fun and can be made with instant mold (since halflings are really tiny)

Actually, yes. First off, a Stone Statue is solid throughout- that much stone will always be stronger than a couple inches of metal, especially at the technology level of a Fantasy game. Second, the statue doesn't have a crew, or delicate and explosive technology inside it that can be harmed simply by the shockwave of an impact or a lucky arrow into a viewport.

They may not have KB or Poison, but 3 S5 attacks and 1 S6 attack on the charge from each is still going to hurt, along with that 1+ armor save. They're also on a brand new 50x75mm base.

I just don't like how an Empire army can have 4+ chariot-based monstrosities. It just doesn't make much sense for Empire, the race of weenies that overwhelm through number.

Also, I don't like how Flagellants got better, but I do like their shift to Special, competing with cannons.

Not to complain, but how the heck does the stank drop to T6?? All that heavy armor plating is somehow weaker than a stone statue?

Whatever, Cruddy Cruddace. Try again...

How did flags get better? Also don't care for the idea of the MC in the army I do have to say they are the only new models I actually like. Most of it looks like junk but have to admit that it could just be the paint job as I usually don't care for how GW paints stuff.

+1 T is far better than +1 CR.

and are also AP. and yet only T3

+1 T is far better than +1 CR.

True, didn't know what you were talking about wonder if you can build a bigger unit. 40 flags run horde style would make my day

I've already faced against a Flagellant horde nearly 40 strong, and it annihilated me . That was a few weeks ago.

Aren't Flagellant units capped at 30 max? But yes, they are very dangerous.

and are also AP. and yet only T3

heh, they're gonna hate skaven, those knights.
missed that toughnes, good point. that makes them about as durable as a sphinx vs low strength troops, basically (a bit better actually).

Anyway, didn't know about that base, that's a nice little perk, sort of, as we always have hassle with the necroknight base-size. on the other hand, ranking up will be even more useless for the demigryps, as only the one rider attack will be added to the pool.

personally, the new release showed me how much fantasy/steampunk the empire can acces. I always thought they were only boring humans, but huge arrays of lenses, gryphon riders, (and steam tanks of course) do make the army a bit more colorful to me. Still I get your annoyance about the change of direction they seem to make in army style, Veritas. On the other hand, more armies had to forget their past after the 8th edition makeover, and they do pretty well now

If the cannon, mortar, steamtank and battery changes are true then I might finally be able to play against my regular empire opponent and actually face some melee. Sounds very nice.

Well if you think about it you don't have to hit a Steam Tank hard enough to break the tank just hard enough to jelly the crew or cause some pipes to leak. It's like a steam powered suit of plate mail. You hit a Warsphinx you have to actually break a giant block of pissed off animated stone.

Course maybe a bullet/arrow might get lucky and break an animation glyph so low strength attacks have an effect. At least thats how I try to explain it to myself. For poison? I don't know maybe skinks shoot masonry bits out if their blowpipes...

I believe the fluff reason for poison working on stuff like the sphinxes is something along the lines of "They arm themselves with the appropriate stuff beforehand", thus the skinks shoot acid pellets, or something similar. Still kinda dumb that something so small could put a noticeable dent on a Sphinx, but oh well.

If you start wondering about that you can wonder about the entire game. There are a lot of rules that are really quite 'wait what?' when you think about it.

I won't send my necrosphinx anywhere near stuff with posion.

and I "love" that my warsphinx and crew could attack a large unit of say Skaven, crew kills 4, thunderstomps kills 6, thundercush kills , i dunno, 16 - and then if they have a single rank of 5 left they count as steadfast and roll on ordinary leadership.
They've just suffered 26 casualties out of 31 and they are chattering to each other saying "we're strong guys, hold firm"


Nah!

I play Empire too, and there's a lot of change that seems quite odd and make little sense! Two of my three army are from Cruddace now, gonna be a painfull 8th edition!

Regarding the Tank at T6, I see it as an armored chariot, so it kinda make sense here (for once). Regular chariot are usually T5, so +1T for the Tank with an awesome armor is all nice and good in my book. The worrying thing is the steam points mechanic that look totally wack from what I've read, but I'll wait for the book or more solid confirmation on that before panicking

WOW, with these new point adjustments, I'm sorry but we have no chance against a hard skaven list. No chance at all. We can't even disrupt their ranks to take away their leadership.
I was on warhammer-empire forum earlier and thought i'd share what all the kids over there are saying about the new book. It reads just like this forum did when the TK book came out.

I almost feel bad for cruddace, all this hate has to make him feel pretty lousy.


AND START EMPIRE HATE QUOTES BELOW


Well I can always look at this game as a HOBBY going forward. I will paint my Empire and look forward to 2018 to play them again when the new Army Book is released.

I'd like to see how "balanced" they are in 8th with all their new toys. I still cannot see us beating a good Ogre Kingdom player.

Guys it seems old lists are completely hosed and are screwed and unless you buy the new shiney, you'll lose against any equally skilled player. God forbid we need to play DE or Skaven until their new books.

Honestly Mortars? They were a 100 points back in 1996! The difference is they were S7 and did D3 wounds with the small template. At least they could kill stuff


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So no more single Engineers babysitting multiple warmachines. Since he has to pick at the start of the phase. The nerfs just keep coming. I am literally amazed at how the more details the come out the worse it is. It is to the point of sheer ridiculousness.

"Let’s take everything about the army and make it worse. Then lets add some new stuff which will be pretty good."

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I'm getting more and more dismayed as soth gives us the bitter truth.

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I expected a nerf but this goes too far. I think I'm done. I'm going to ponder this for a couple of weeks but I think I'm done with the hobby and will wash my hands of anything Games Workshop.

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will def be different but i'm so pissed off with the mortar nerfs. we needed our mortars to think out the enemy. now we'll just die in droves after our bound spells get shut down, but wont run away.

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There are some really ridiculous changes.

Why are swordsmen more points than Halberdiers, when everyone was taking Halberdiers (generally).
Why did the Griffon banner go up in points. Did ANYONE take this? does ANYONE take magic banners on their BSB? BSB's are now so important, they need protection!
Who thought our BS based shooting was too good?

These are the things that really upset me because they suggest crudface literally has no clue about what people were doing with the old book.

I think after all the moaning the TK book got Cruddace was just out to prove that we didn't get it so bad, given the volume of whining on warseer and w-e about the new empire at the moment his next book will be very ugly indeed...

I've played empire since 6th edition and they have never looked so weak, the rumours have actually made me feel very positively about TK, at least we're going to have easy games against one army.

Dbunibe, swordsmen have always been more points than halberdiers, and with good reason, WS 4 isn't free you know. It's just that when halberdiers are over costed by a point, swordsmen will be as well, only it's more noticeable because they cost more. Empire infantry are making skeleton warriors look like a very good deal right now. I guess Empires problem was this: not enough brand new models

I think Cruddace actually has his own game he is designing for, it's called Crudhammer and the power level is about 10 rungs below what all the other designers work to.

following the all caps in my previous post were all quotes from the W-E forum. i know that swordsmen have always been more.

Haha, uhh...this is how they redesign every single army book, ever. Good stuff gets worse, bad/new stuff is better. Marketing 101. Maybe this speaker has never been around for a new book for any army, hinting they've only been playing for a month or so...

What peeps tend to forget is that usually the people complaining speak up on forums like warseer, while the people contend and just happy (which is 95% of the peeps in general) just get the new stuff and are happy with it.

This entire thing seems really out of proportion, welcome to the Interwebz.

Here is something I am observing. Orc boyz +1 point. State troops +1 point. Gnoblars + ? point. Ghouls +2 points.

If the trend of core infantry getting a bit more expensive continues, our skeleton warriors are getting buffed indirectly. YAY FOR CRUD!

Other people have noticed that too, that basic units in living armies are going up. Amusingly, it runs counter to the idea that 8th is about big armies with lots of hordes of dudes, since you can't get them anymore...heh.

To be honest, I am sort of disappointed that empire are the next book to be updated. Feels like bretts, wood elves, or dwarves could have used the update much more then empire could, especially since the 7th ed empire book is/was one of the best out there currently for fantasy.

Never the less, im glad the artillery is getting nerfed!

Makes sense from a balance perspective though. With supporting attacks plus hordes plus steadfast, plus not being able to kill the front rank to eliminate counterattacks, all the basic troops are actually worth more. Our skellies got cheaper since fear wasn't worth much anymore, is my guess.

Although I'll admit GW getting something balance related right is a bizzare concept, and spears costing points to add makes no sense, so maybe I am just being silly.

you sir are part wrong.
vc skeletons -3pts
tk skeletons -4pts
zombies -1pts
grave guard -1pts
ogre bulls -5pts

ghouls - they are a matter of their own. they were just too overpowered for the points. now it all makes sense. 5 slaves is absolutely a right price for them. they can ASF (and rroll to hit which is important due to their 2A & POISON), T4, also they can rroll to hit with vanhels => all of this is much much better then a poor half price skeleton.

on the other hand empire lists didnt lose anything. the spearmen got cheapen, all other got more expensive. thats an even if u ask me.

the cannons/mortars got a price up, but a tank is now -50pts (although its T6 - its more effective with new rules). again thats an even.

the handgunners/crossbowmen got a price increase. its been done just to stop the gunline armies - because they are fckn idiotic (better play yamb). wow. now the empire players are paying 20-30 pts more on shooting (2-3 units of shooters). big deal.



spearmen get a 6+ ward when 6" of a light laser thingy. thats damn good. also their leaders got cold blooded (right?). thats DAMN GOOD!

demigriphs are not a must.

hell thingies are now in all lists. mortars are out. i love that

the biggest change nobody chatter about is that the warrior priests/arch lectors dont generate the dispel dice. the rod of power is out also. that a big blow for empire magic.

their magic IS SWEET.


all in all - nice well balanced book. cant hold grudge against that autor. I might be the first to say - WELL DONE


@veritas - GW capitalistic firm. oh yes. they are doing it by the book (the book of marketing? ). there are some exceptions *from good to better* - varghulfs, corpse carts, all vampire heroes, fell bets, carrion, our chariots, skelie archers.

hordes: yes you can. spears. 60 spears + 35 halbeard = you got 25pts left for other stuff (since spears are cheaper - halveards more expensive)

@ustrogoth - me too. wood elves would be an obvious choice. although i think the DE are next - them being op and CHEAP for a M5 I5 WS4 Ld8 elf with hatred, buffs, razors.

@maglok - agreed 100%