My Questons Topic :)

well, i tend to have some "intresting" ideas and sometimes just lack the knolege exp. to see if those are good, great, just plein dumb or impossible due to rules i still dont know

so here i'll ask stuff.. hehe


1. can charaters on chariots join necropolis knigths?

1.2. could some1 explain me the unitjoining rules with chars with different bases and stuff. so king on chariot joining horsmen, or leech on foot joining ushabti, and similar stuff,..

2. can necro knights/stalkers supportattack from secnd row?

3. can i heal back wounds on the characters with the lore atribute? if i directly target a character, or if he's not in a unit? or anyhow at all?
- here i think i know the awnser, but i just have to get it said to me so im 100% shure ..

4. if a character joins a unit that has a special deployment rule,... scouts, ETB,.. does he go with them, or do they loose that special rule?

5. if a TK/TP with blade of antarhak and regen ON, suffers a wound from something flaming, but that wound gets transferred to the herald,.. does he loose the regen? i dont think so, or?

6. does the "doubble the movement" from 6 spell of the lore of light, doubble also the flying value? example: i cast it on a necrosphinx. does she get:
move 12 or fly 10 or move 12 or fly 20? and therefore a possible max charge of 32?



thats all for now,.. but i forgot some stuff i wated to ask a few days ago,.. so i will be back soon with new questions.


i read this forum a lot and have to say that there are a lot of very good and constructive topics and awnsers to a lot of things. it has helpd me a lot as a starter of tk and fantasy, per se, so "thumbs up" so far for the forum and you guys here

There is a rules section of the forum, but here you are


1. yes

1.2 if it has a footprint that doesn't fit it goes in the front rank on the end but doesn't mess with your rank bonus (note a king on a chariot cannot join any unit other than a chariot)

2. yes, the rider of the necro knight gets his full attacks, the mount gets none. stalkers being warbeasts just get 1 attack from the second rank.

3. no this is quite clearly written in our FAQ

4. a character cannot join a ETBS unit as they are not on the table durring the character deployment.

5. as the character with regen didn't actually suffer the wound he would not lose regen, think of the herald as a once per turn charmed shield. (note the transfering of the wound takes place before saves, so it would be impossible for the king to be "wounded" as he hasn't made a save attempt.

6. the timewarp spell doubles the move allowance, not the stat. so yes it would let them fly 20. (this is my understanding, others disagree)

I assume you misread his first question since your responses to 1 and 1.2 contradict each others >> aaanyway...

1. No, normally characters can't join a unit of chariots nor can a character on a chariot join units. We however have the special rule "And the Tomb Kings rode to war" (I believe it is) allowing characters on chariots to join a Chariot unit (note that even if the character is de-charioted he will remain with the unit until he decides to leave, at which point he cannot re-join it).

1.2 You got it! (With "on the end" he means the sides of the unit, outside the normal formation.)

2. As you said the NecroKnight gets full attacks (2, 3 with smiting) from the second rank while the Necroserpent gets none being a mount. However Stalkers are Monstrous Beasts and so get their full attacks (up to 3) from the second rank.

3. As you said we're not allowed to heal our characters with the Lore Attribute, it sucks but what can you do?

4. To explain this further: Characters are not deployed WITH a unit (With the exception of the Dawn Attack scenario I believe), but are instead deployed at the very end and inserted into units. Naturally they can't deploy in units that aren't on the table yet and as such can't deploy with Scouts or EBTS units unless they should possess that special rule (Of which we have none. It's arguable if Aphophas would be able to join a unit if he didn't have his "may not join units" rule though )

5. Movement Allowance IS the stat, so no it doesn't affect flying movement, and it's questionable if it even allows your M to go over 10 as it doesn't specifically state it can exceed the usual maximum.

1. i did misread the first question i missed the word chariot.

2. not quite right, you don't get the extra attack from smiting with monstrous support. It clearly states gets as many attacks on it's profile up to 3. smiting or an extra hand weapon wouldn't give you an extra attack because it doesn't add to your profile. though i always forget that monstrus beasts get monstrous support with the erratta so you are correct that they would get theirs

5. this is a point of debate and i've seen it played both ways at tourny's. many people claim that it is not the stat. that the mv stat and mv allowance are 2 different things. therefore timewarp would allow you to move more than 10 when flying.

This is wrong I'm afraid.

Any spells or magic items that give bonuses to stats directly effecs the stat line with the exception of weapons and magic weapons.

For example If you drink the potion of speed and required to take an initiative test that turn you test on your modified initiative.

Smiting gives a bonus to Attacks, thus you get your 3 supporting attacks. Mounts never get supporting attacks... Which is a shame because all those wasted attacks with the snakes.

This is wrong I'm afraid.

Any spells or magic items that give bonuses to stats directly effecs the stat line with the exception of weapons and magic weapons.

For example If you drink the potion of speed and required to take an initiative test that turn you test on your modified initiative.

Smiting gives a bonus to Attacks, thus you get your 3 supporting attacks. Mounts never get supporting attacks... Which is a shame because all those wasted attacks with the snakes.

the spell gives you a bonus attack but does not alter your profile. If you want to use an ini potion as an example lets take a look at LD instead. there are things that call for unmodified LD tests, giving a model -3 LD then asking for an unmodified LD test doesn't mean it tests at -3 because its LD on the profile is altered. Just like MWBD doesn't give troops WS 10 when using fencers blades. Those modify the profile, but do not change it at the core. Monstrous support reads PG 81 BRB

"A monstrous (insert type here) model can make as many supporting attacks as are on its profile, up to a maximum of three, rather than the usual one supporting attack."

things like extra hand weapons, paired weapons and smiting give you an extra attack, but they don't change your profile. If I'm wrong please quote the rule and give a page number for reference. I'd like to be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure I'm not.


*Edit, found it myself. I am wrong, PG 61 extra attacks specifies that it oncreases the att value by 1. Good to know

This is quite wrong im afraid, I shall explain why:

So in effect

which learning this only now in quoting the brb rear riders on monstrous Cavalry only are able to have one supporting attack.

Which bring me to your quote.

So sadly, a rear rank of our Nek Knights, only the riders can attack, and only one attack per model... so his 2nd attack is wasted, as well as the whole Serpent itself.

which brings onto the next question, is it worth spending the points on a second rank of Nek knights?

Case: Yes O__o

Point: Because a Block of big arse snake surffers look flashy! *shrugs* It helps the unit last longer.. being flashy that is.

But no honestly taking a second rank of Necropolis Knights is still worth it, if you have the points to spare, even if you can't get the full number of attacks from your supporting ranks. They act as a buffer when taking wounds and can help with side and rear flank attacks.

ok, so first, sorry for misplacing the topic,.. duno why i put it there


then to the questions.

1. so any1 in chariot can NOT join anything else than a chariot unit.

1.2. any other kind of smaller base can join the nec knigt but will always be in front on the side...

2. nec knights in row2 attack with 2 TG attacks
stalkers attacks with 2 attacks

3. yeah,.. was clear

4. no joining stbs and or scouts

5. yeah is the logic awnser. thx

6. this is so still on debate? well i'll play it with movement 20 for flying and 12 for "walking" will give the colossus a great charge range .. hihi charge 12+ dices and strike first

This is quite wrong im afraid, I shall explain why:

So in effect

which learning this only now in quoting the brb rear riders on monstrous Cavalry only are able to have one supporting attack.

Which bring me to your quote.

So sadly, a rear rank of our Nek Knights, only the riders can attack, and only one attack per model... so his 2nd attack is wasted, as well as the whole Serpent itself.

which brings onto the next question, is it worth spending the points on a second rank of Nek knights?

That is all incorrect and is answered in the FAQ, quoted:

Page 83 – Monstrous Cavalry
Add “MONSTROUS SUPPORT
Furthermore, the rider of a monstrous cavalry model can make
as many supporting attacks as are on its profile, up to a
maximum of three.” to the end of the paragraph.

So yes, necroknight riders get their full number of attacks for supporting attacks.

I think your find it's not all incorrect.

Just the part about about riders supporting attacks to which your correct

ok. so those uestions are done

next few come :


1. can a character leave a unit if the unit he is in is in cc but he isnt in b2b contact with any enemie?
example: priest in second row (maybe even with cloak of the dunes.
or priest in ushabti unit, on the side,... maybe even made the charge with that unit, i position and maximize so that he is off any enemies, and the with the winds of dessert leavethe unit :.. ..

2. and can i fire a vortex spell over an enemie unit that is engaged in a cc?
komplex-example 1+2: enemie charges TG with a priest with cloak of dunes who sits in row 2 of my unit. in my phase i leave with him, position the priest to the flank and fire the vortex over the enemie unit that is in cc with my TG?

3. can some1 pls explain me in detail how the thing goes with "killing the mount" with our chariots? ...
if i understand it right when shooting on a tk on chariot who rides solo the shots get randomized,..
but in cc? the attackers can chose to attack the chariot and therefore kill his monut of....
so when he is in a chariotunit and some1 kills his chariot,.. je just hops on any other,... counting as a new crewmen for that chariot.
... - is it possible to heal his the chariot with the lore attribute?
1. if it is still just "wounded"
2. or might it even be possible to raise it full back after some1killd it, then the TK hops on the unit, then in the magic phase he gets his ride summond back?
...so many questions there,.. hehehe
- if i have a full command chariot unit 4 wide, with king and herald(in 2 row) in it, ... and the king gets his chariot killd,.. then he hops on the musicians chariot and the herald moves in 1 rank,.. or does a rank and file chariot from rank 2 come in front and the king hops on that 1,... or does the herald come in rank 1 and the king hops on that 1,.. or or or?
and then both of them get their chariot killd and then they bouth hop again onthe musicians chariot,.. making it 4 models on that tiny little chariot ... hm, hm,.. or do they kick the normal crew out(would be very dumb, but have to aske just to cove that too)

1- No, once a unit is in combat, no one can leave (p.101), and no one can join either (p.97).

2- No for your exemple, since you can't leave as above. But otherwise you can throw a vortex toward a enemy in combat, since a vortex don't have a target (p.31). But for the life of me I can't find how to allocate the hits in such an instance.

3- In combat, the enemies can target freely the chariot insted of the character. If the chariot die, the character is now on foot (he doesn't jump on another chariot). He can stay with the unit (but making the unit move at M4), but if he leave, he can't come back later. You can never heal the chariot, so when it die, it stay dead!

No.
Leaving a Unit page 101 4th paragraph
"Alternatively, a character can leave his unit during the Remaining Moves sub-phase by moving away from the unit before that unit makes its own move. If the unit cannot move in this phase for any reason, the character may not leave the unit.

For example, a character cannot leave if:
-His unit is fleeing:
-The character himself or his unit is not permitted to move by a spell or other effect.
-If the unit is in combat.
-If the unit has made a failed charge.
-And so on..."

Because the unit can not move in the Remaining Moves sub-phase (it's in close combat) the character can not leave the unit.

Yes.
Choosing A target Page 31
"Targeting restrictions vary from spell to spell. However, unless stated otherwise the following rules apply:
-The target must lie within the Wizard's forward arc.
-The Wizard does not need line of sight to his target.
-The target must lie within the spell's range.
-Wizards cannot target spells at units engaged in close combat.

[Skip to Magical Vortexes on Page 31]

Magical vortexes are roiling gloves of magical energy that travel across the battlefield, wreaking all kings of unusual (and often deadly) effects. A magical vortex does not have a target - instead it uses one of the round templates, which is placed in base contact with the caster and with its centre within the caster's front arc, and then moves as described in the spell."

Because the spell does not have a target you can force it to move over an enemy unit that is engaged in close combat. However keep in mind that you can not do so if it would move over your own units as well.

-Edit-

Resolving Unusual Attacks Page 42 First paragraph only
"There are several circumstances in Warhammer that call upon you to inflict hits upon an enemy - spells being an obvious example (the Fireball spell causes D6 Strength 4 hits on an enemy unit), as well as things like the Impact Hits made by a charging chariot (covered in the Special Rules chapter). Such hits are resolved using 4, 5 and 6 of the rules for shooting attacks."

Rule 6 is 'Remove Casualties'. Unusual Attacks (spells included) unless otherwise stated, are distributed as shooting attacks.-Edit-

I'll be skipping around a little to help eliminate text that does not apply to our Chariot Mount.
Chariot Mount pg 105 2nd paragraph
"A chariot mount otherwise follows all the rules for ridden monsters (see below), save for the fact that a chariot does not need to take a Monster Reaction test if the character is slain."

Shooting at Ridden Monsters
"As a single model, the monster and its rider are considered to be a single target. It is not possible to shoot specifically at either the rider or the mount unless the shooting model has the Sniper special rule (see page 75).

Once you have established how many hits have been scored, you must apportion them between the rider and the monster. For each hit scored roll a D6: on a roll of 1-4 the monster has been hit. On a roll of 5-6 the rider has been hit. [...]

Roll to wound the monster and rider as normal, remembering to roll the dice separately so you can tell the two sets of hits apart. Once you know how many wounds have been inflicted on the monster and rider, they can each take any saves to which they are entitled.

Templates
if you use a weapon or spell that uses a template against a monster mount, both the rider and the mount are automatically hit if the monster's base is touched by the template (note that this includes bouncing cannonballs!). In the case of a stone thrower, which inflicts hits at two different Strengths, only one model will be hit at the higher Strength (assuming that model's base is under the centre of the template). Randomize, as for a shooting attack, to see whether one of the riders or the mount is unlucky enough to take the high-Strength hit. All other models are hit at the lower Strength value."

Monster Mounts in Combat Page 106 (I'm going to summarize this one)
-Monsters attack using its own characteristics
-Rider attacks using his own characteristics
-Enemies in base contact with the Monster Mount can choose to attack the rider or the mount.
-Rider and Monster save separately using their respective saves.
-Excess Wounds from the rider do not overflow onto the Monster
-Excess Wounds from the Monster do not overflow onto the Rider

Slain Riders or Mounts
"Wounds must be recorded separately for the rider and his mount. If the mount is slain, the rider continues to fight on foot.

If the rider is slain,[...]the monster fights on as normal."

As mentioned earlier in this reply Chariot Mounts do not take a Monster Reaction test so I excluded that part from this last rule quote.

No. Models never merge with other models. A Character mounted on a chariot can not hop on someone elses chariot. Once the Chariot is destroyed he continues on foot.

Keep in mind that if he has joined a unit of chariots and his chariot is destroyed, he is still appart of that chariot unit. The unit will move at the slowest movement value among them though so the King/Prince/herald will slow the unit down to a movement of 4. You may want to have him leave the unit and join another.

No.
Our Lore Attribute follows the Resurrecting Fallen Warriors special rule from our army book on page 28. In the second to last sentence of the Resurrecting Fallen Warriors description it states:
"Unless specifically stated otherwise, spells and magic items that restore lost Wounds cannot heal characters or their mounts."

Think they can fly the 20 inchs with the spell, found a FAQ regarding other movement rules and time warp even though an errata changed the movement to movement value in the spell discription.

Pg 11

"Q: Does Birona’s Timewarp affect units with the Random
Movement or other movement special rules? (Reference)
A: Yes, however far they can normally move, it will be doubled.
For example, a unit with the Random Movement (2D6)
special rule rolls a 9. This would then be doubled to 18."

Though if this is right a normal flying unit that can march could go 40"?

Think they can fly the 20 inchs with the spell, found a FAQ regarding other movement rules and time warp even though an errata changed the movement to movement value in the spell discription.

Pg 11

"Q: Does Birona’s Timewarp affect units with the Random
Movement or other movement special rules? (Reference)
A: Yes, however far they can normally move, it will be doubled.
For example, a unit with the Random Movement (2D6)
special rule rolls a 9. This would then be doubled to 18."

Though if this is right a normal flying unit that can march could go 40"?

I'd be interested to see if they go back and edit their Errata and FAQs

Because the spell itself has been changed from "The target's Movement is doubled" to "The target's Movement Allowance is Doubled" I would typically gather that It does not affect special rules like Flying because Flying does not work off the Movement Allowance (Movement Allowance is a Characteristic. Page 3).

-But- I can't say for certain *shrugs* ^^; just my thoughts. Is Random Movement (like in the example) listed under Movement Allowance or in a Special Rule?

A 40" march seems crazy...

If I remember correctly, on the Snotling Pump Wagon the profile actually shows 2d6 as the movement allowance.

Random Movement is a special rule it tends to be on the profile so you know how many D6 it can move.

True but spells like miasmia and vengence reduce Fly movement as well as the M value so I would think timewarp would work the same way. That's my thoughts anyway I could be completly wrong.

Random Movement is a special rule it tends to be on the profile so you know how many D6 it can move.

True but spells like miasmia and vengence reduce Fly movement as well as the M value so I would think timewarp would work the same way. That's my thoughts anyway I could be completly wrong.

We (my play group) normally considered these types of spells to retuce the statistic and not actual movement, since normal movement is based on your Movement Allowance.

Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma
"The target unit's Weapon Skill, Balistic Skill, Initiative or Movement (you choose which) is reduced by D3 (to a minimum of 1) unitl the start of the caster's next Magic phase."

Usirian's Incantation of Vengeance
"The target unit suffers -D3 to its Movement (to a minimum of 1) and treats all terrain (even open ground) as Dangerous Terrain, testing every time it moves (including when charging, fleeing, pursuing, moving compulsorily, etc.) until the start of the caster's next Magic phase."


We always saw Flying independent of the Movement characteristic because of the description:

Moving Flyers page 70 2nd paragraph
"Units made up entirely of models that can fly can move or charge normally on the ground, using their Movement value, or instead choose to fly. [...]"

But -very- good points something I'd like to get clarification on.

I thought that as well but theres a FAQ on miasma one the same page as the timewarp one

Pg 11

"Q: If a unit with the Fly or Hover special rule has its Movement
reduced by Melkoth’s Mystifying Miasma, does this affect its
ground movement, flying movement or both? (Reference)
A: It will affect both."

So if Miasma does this vengence will also do the same since they both reduce Movement. I used to think the same before I noticed it.

thx for all the awnsers and the discussion, per se.


so i have 1 uestion left concerning the "chariot issue".
unit of 6 chariots with TK and herald on chariot (8 models unit) which is 4 wide and 2 rankd deep. ... the king in rank 1 the herald in rank 2.

the kings chariot gets killd.

What happens?


1. 3 chariots and king on foot make front rank

2. 1 rank and file chariot comes to rank 1 and king gets pushed to the side.

3. herald comes in front and king gets pushed aside.

id say 3 would be the most logical,.. or?

Usually the model dirrectly behind the King would take his place in the first row and the King would be pushed to the side. However there is a rule that characters must be in the first row if there is room. I think the Herald would be placed in the first row and the King would be pushed to the side.

3. herald comes in front and king gets pushed aside.

a fast question:

wand of jet. ? when can i decide to boost it? after the enemie hes rolld his dispel attempt?? or do i have to decide if i use it before the oppenent decides if he wants to try to dispell my spell??

I'm fairly certain you must choose to boost your casting result after you roll your power dice but before it is his time to decide whether to dispel. It is usually used if you haven't met the minimum casting requirement of the spell you're casting.