Tactica: Necropolis Knights

Disclaimer: I don't pretend to be a good player at all so take all my tactical ramblings in your stride, read the article, take away from it what works for you, apply feedback and hopefully I've added an idea or some food for thought for your current setup.

"Even if a snake is not poisonous, it should pretend to be venomous." - Chanakya



Hey All

After being a little bored and enjoying writing articles I thought I'd present my first tactical article on my favourite unit in our current book. The Necropolis Knights bring a few things to the table that aren't matched by any other unit in the book without combination:

Advantages:

- Speed
- Armour
- Damage output
- Damage resistance
- EBTS
- Fear

The first key point being speed, in an army of shuffling bone it's a pretty important one. M7 and Swiftstride allows us to get into good positions (as opposed to most other units) and make reliable charges when the time is right.

They've got the best armour save in the Tomb Kings army, however don't go thinking that's an automatic pass to throw them into the thickest of fighting as you'll be sure to come away disappointed. They do have the potential to soak up some damage provided they're pitched into the correct combat with the correct support elements.

The damage output a unit of Knights can produce is once again I believe (without character support) is hands down the best our army reliably has access to, each base nets you 5 attacks plus a stomp. Throw some killing blow attacks and enemy characters/armoured units are fair game and secondly poisoned attacks for the mounts and you've got a very versatile unit that is great at dishing out the hurt. Once you start adding magical buffs to the picture the results just multiply rapidly.

On damage resistance a unit of knights is certainly worth of mention. At T4 and 3 wounds a piece and of course with a good armour save they're fairly hardy to most small arms fire and magic missiles. War machines however will have a field day but depending on what is in the rest of your army you could find they're not the number 1 target.

The last point I wish to touch on is this unit is capable of using the ETBS rules. Certainly nothing game breaking but it has the potential to setup some very good tactical options and its never fun to have your units surrounded regardless of the threats. This is certainly one area where I lack experience but I will certainly be looking into it more and more.

Certainly not as powerful as it once was but still worth a mention. Having your opponent hitting on 5's or 6's can go a long way to saving your Knights so be sure you always have your opponent roll a fear check every combat round.

Disadvantages:

1. Low Initiative
2. Footprint
3. Expensive
4. Drop easily to S5+ attacks

1. Granted our whole army suffers from this however it's still worth mentioning. Most of the time you'll be striking either at the same time or last unless of course the unit is buffed.

2. Depending on what size you run the unit you may end up with a very large 6 wide frontage which can take a bit of getting used to when using them. Weigh up when deploying, is it easier to run them in a single line or can you afford to spend a turn reforming them after running them up the flank as a block?

3. Don't go throwing them into any combat you like as these guys soon add up in cost. Add entombed as the price hike goes up a little more.

4. Probably the biggest gripe this unit has is against S5 attacks, with a -2 armour save they won't be hanging around long so keep this in mind all the time!

Unit options:

Size: This all comes down the personal preference and what you intend to do with the units. If you're using them as shields then units of 5-6 work great as they've got the wounds to soak up and they can 'guard' units behind them with their large foot print. Units of 4 work well for hunters and units of 3-4 work great as entombed units to get flank and rear charges. This will also minimize losses if they fail to appear for the game.

Command: Depending on the unit size Full command can be a great option. 4 is the amount I would run before putting a standard in the unit. The champion is a handy upgrade for three reasons, firstly he's got a good chance at dropping enemy characters and gaining an underdog bonus. Secondly if you lose the champion and a further Nehekharan augment spell is cast on the unit then your champion gets back up on a single wound - it's nothing game breaking but certainly something to keep in the back of your mind that you can re-gain 5 attacks with a single spell. Lastly and this again comes down to what formation you're running your Knights in, if the unit is charged in the flank and only a single snake is in combat it may be useful to challenge and/or put the unit champion on the receiving end of the damage so your unit can only take a maximum of 3 wounds and crumble a further few wounds allowing you to reform and even the odds a little next combat phase hopefully!

Seeing as unit champions are unable to use the 'Make Way' rule you'll have to use a bit of nous here and position the champion on the flank if you suspect a flank charge coming on or if you're stuck in a position you can't get out of. I'm honestly a little hazy on this area so need to grab my rule book and then clear this area up.

Entombed: With a small investment you can pay to have your unit/s ambush. Great for some builds but it always adds that element of risk with the unit misfiring and not turning up.

WARNING

Be sure to never mix your Necropolis Knights into a combat with non animated constructs unless the circumstances are dire or for whatever reason you'll annihilate the enemy before they get to strike back. They're expensive wounds to lose via crumble.

Types/Builds:

For me there are 3 main builds when considering a unit of Necropolis Knights and assigning them a role:

1. Snake Shield

I build my army around this tactic currently and for it I find it's effective as it combines the Knights ability to soak a bit of damage before absorbing charges and then dealing the counter attack.

Deployment is typically with the Knights shielding the softer/shootier elements of the army allowing them the maximum amount of time to inflict casualties on the oncoming threats. For me currently this is 3 units of archers housing my 2 level 4's. Because of TLOS our archers will always be hitting on 5+ because of the nice gaps the snakes give us. This castled up formation ensures that the support elements are within range of the Knights. It certainly comes across as a very static tactic for the Tomb Kings and it is, but I've had nothing but good results from using this build. The enemy advances whilst constantly under a wall of fire from war machines and archer fire hopefully taking maximum casualties before hitting the wall. A Necrotect here often serves as a great way to add another tiny failsafe into the save of the Necro Knights benefiting both units.

Some deployments from previous games:





This build is all about delaying the enemy and inflicting casualties on them before they hit our lines. Combined with magic support you can really force the enemy into some tricky situations or increase your threat range with Birona's Timewarp to give them second thoughts about moving into your threat range.

In this image the unit of Knights absorbs a charge from a ranked unit of Halberdiers and a War Altar protecting my archers and casters in the backlines. They eventually proceeded to killing blow the Arch lector and break the halberdiers securing the West flank.



2. Hunters

The 'Snake Shield' is an army built around two units of large knights. In a 'Hunters' role the unit of Knights more become a support element or a main combat unit depending on the unit size. With a unit assigned to this role you'll actively look to deploy them on a flank picking your combats carefully as per usual. Here you'll be looking to support your units of knights with combo charges from other elements of your army. Units of 4 work well at this role when combined with another animated construct or sufficient magical augmentation is provided.

Units of 6 can also be assigned to this role depending on the enemy. In a recent game against Empire my opponent had two fast moving elements to his army (IC Knights + Demigryph Knights). I simply couldn't sit and wait behind the snake shield for him to hit my lines as that would have spelt disaster. One of my normal snake shields was then assigned the Hunter role and slowly made it's way up the flank to ensure the Demigryph Knights never made it near my lines.



3. EBTS

Entombed Necropolis Knight units have a very specific purpose. To get behind or flank the enemies main combat blocks and cause some havoc. Don't war machine hunt with this unit unless there is nothing better to do and if that's the case you've probably already won. All the same principles here apply with allowing them to join a combat with another animated construct for optimal results.

In the battle below I pinned a unit of warriors with a Warsphinx whilst the entombed unit of snakes arrived next turn to annihilate the enemy. The Warsphinx and unit of Knights then continued to rampage the Eastern flank for the remainder of the game.



Support

Like with any unit we have access to, it only really truly shines when supported with the correct elements. This doesn't necessarily always mean to join a combat with the Knights but rather setup various tactical avenues for you to exploit from delaying the enemy and prevent charges through to declaring charges to gain some more combat resolution and tip a combat in your favour.

Horse Archers - Delay

In this example I used the Horse archers to pull the opponents Chaos warriors towards my lines to get them in a favourable charge distance for my knights whilst a lone Horse Archer blocks the path to a charge against the Necropolis Knights.



Hierotitan - Combat

The Hierotitan is primarily used to boost our magic but towards to later turns of the game he can find himself in some great positions to charge and support combats or at least delay units from getting into our backlines. He's not the quickest or the slowest unit in our army so careful deployment will dictate where he'll end up so try and be mindful of this next time you game with him. Try and charge him into the flanks/corners of a unit to avoid any damage as yes he is T6 but his armour save isn't great. You basically want him for the amount of damage he can tally up with it's S6 Thunderstomp.

In this example the Hierotitan really tipped the combat in my favour by adding his S6 Thunderstomp and careful placement meant he was taking minimal attacks back.



Warsphinx/Necrosphinx - Combat

I'll put these under the same entry but between the two I think they're nearly the best double team act you can assign to helping out the Necropolis Knights. With T8 and assuming you've picked your combat carefully your opponent will have two options, attempt to get through your 3+ armour save or alternatively try and roll some lucky 6's to wound. With killing blow attacks all around you can be sure your opponent will hold his breath if he's got any characters leading those units. Once again Thunderstomp can certainly help here.

Necrolith Colossus - Combat

Another winner however follow the same principles with the Hierotitan.

Necrotect - Support

I've used the Necrotect a few times to remain within 12" of a single or sometimes both units of Knights at the regeneration can certainly help at times save the odd wound here and there but you can probably find better things to spend your points on.

As you can see the optimal unit support elements for combat are all in the shape of other Animated Constructs, this is clearly to prevent crumble damage from spilling over and taking out our high point investment units. It's certainly not saying that you can't mix and match however it's a risk and you should weigh up all your options and do the maths of the oncoming combat to ensure you'll come out on top. Run through a quick breakdown of the following and then make the choice:

Are you charging?
Does your opponent have ranks/standards/BSB?
Characters support?
Predicted damage? (Both you and your opponents)
Unit support incoming? (Both you and your opponent)
Can you reliably augment the non-construct?
How will this combat effect the remainder of the game?

If you were to support the Necropolis Knights with a non animated construct unit then I'd lean heavily towards Tomb Guard because chances are they'll have a Prince/King to support them giving them the WS boost and making them a little more harder to hit. Secondly chariots provided they're augmented well could make an ok support unit.

Magic Support

Yes this section deserves its very own.

Firstly I think that the Lore of Light has the best synergy with the Necropolis Knights. Lore of Death helps directly IMO with only two factors, Soul blight and Doom and Darkness. They're certainly great to have but I think Light as a whole can bring more to the table.

Spells to look for when your snakes are on the offensive (that is charging S3/4 enemies) are as follows in random order:

Incantation of Smiting (taking your base attacks from 5 per model to 7? Yes please)
Bironaˇ's Timewarp (same as above + ASF)
Speed of Light (Hitting on 3's)
Incantation of Desiccation (Easier to wound opponents)
Soulblight (as above)

Spells to look for when playing on the defensive or being charged by an enemy with Strength greater than 4 in random order:

Pha's Protection (harder to hit)
Incantation of Protection (Ward off some damage)
Speed of Light (harder to hit again)
Incantation of Desiccation (tougher to wound snakes)
Soulblight (as above)

An honourable mention goes to Doom & Darkness in order to get an enemy to fail a fear test however it doesn't make the list because no doubt a BSB/General will be around and you basically have to pass two tests to get this off (casting roll and opponent fail) where as any of the other spells you only need to cast.

Birona's Timewarp deserves a special mention as after Bad Mojo crunched some numbers its really clear that's the spell you want to get off on your Knights. It increases their damage output but also allows you to inflict casualties onto your opponent (and maybe take out that enemy character before they even swing) before they get to attack which can of course reduce the amount of attacks coming back.

Post combat however we've still got a lot of options to delay the enemy allowing us to inflict as many casualties to make the snakes jobs much easier, these include but are not limited to the following and are in no particular order:

Incantation of Desiccation/Soulblight + Net - I realise that getting Soulblight and net off is highly unlikely as that would mean running a lore of light and death priest in the same list which is unlikely but it's still possible. If you manage to cast any of these spells it allows more damage to sink through to the opponents in the form of S3 arrows and SSC plates. Secondly if you're lucky enough to get Net off as well the opponent has to test against his S value in order to do anything at all which can become quite frustrating especially when they fail at a lower S value.

Incantation of Vengeance - One of our best spells. Warhammer is won and lost in the movement phase so if you can potentially hinder a units movement phase you can effectively dictate where they will end up.

Incantation of Smiting - Once again worthy of a mention but more so with our archer units to support the knights prior to combat. Chew those ranks down so your knights are able to engage the unit, smash it up and not get bogged down and destroyed.

Doom & Darkness - Receives another mention here for panic tests alone from missile fire/war machine fire.

Sneaky Tricks

Now consider that these may or may not work any of the time but they're still options so should be considered even for a split second.

Firstly the Necrotect. If geared with a ward or 2+ save with a single re-roll he can probably take a bit of damage before turning to dust. I've never done this but have often entertained the idea. Prior to the enemy charging your unit of Knights (probably 'Snake Shield' would be most applicable here) have your Necrotect join the unit of snakes for some Hatred goodness. One trick pony no doubt but I'd like to see angry snakes one day.

Krael also brought up gearing a HLP with the Death Mask. If sat right behind a wall of snakes in a single rank his mask will effect whatever unit is in combat with the snakes negating them a precious 'Stand Your Ground' roll and the enemy General's Inspiring presence. If you're lucky enough to pop a doom & darkness through as well then odds are you could be in a good position to cut down a fleeing opponent.

Also worthy of mention is the inclusion of the special character Necrotect Rhamotep who grants a random animated construct with a re-rollable armour save. If you take nothing but Knights then a 3+ armour save becomes pretty tough to get through.

Conclusion:

Necropolis Knights are a flexible tool capable of strong damage output in combat combined with a good armour save. Use them wisely and they're equipped to take down enemy units in unison with a solid support network. Treat them right and they'll pay dividends.

In summary:

Snake shields - Units of 5-6 with Full command
Hunters - Units of 4 with Standard/Mus
EBTS - Units of 3-4 with Standard

What to aim at:

S3/4 enemies
Armoured Infantry/Cavalry
Characters

What to avoid:

S5+ enemy units
Helblaster Volley Guns (absolutely mince our Knights so remember the 24" range!)

I hope you've found something of use within this article and can either enhance your current games with the inclusion of Necropolis Knights or have learnt another trick to try with them.

Constructive feedback and criticise always welcome.



This post has been edited by Jimmy on Aug 13 2012, 04:34 PM

Interesting stuff, it will go into the Tactical Corner

But two weird sentences in the intro, at the end of a paragraph;

Those two sentences feel like two ideas that you put together but forgot to edit them properly

But it was a nice read, thanks for it!

I need to hire a new proof reader it seems or perhaps they just don't like Knights.

Thanks for pointing that out mate, I've corrected those errors.

great effort jimmy! Can't read the whole thing at work now, but the examples from chronicler promise a well crafted story!
Cool cool cool.

+1

If I may add something:
Because snakes profit immensely from lore of light magic support, it is vital that you keep your caster(s) within range (12").
In a defensive setup I guess an archerblock is enough.
In an agressive surge forward setup, I enjoy putting my wizards on horses with a horsemen block. It is a risky gamble to make your wizards penetrate deeply into the map, or even the opponent's territory, but if you are prudent and can circumvent your opponent's wizard-hunting measures, it may pay off.

On another note: Pha's Protection is very useful defensively and against war machines and shooting, but I tend to always try to get it off, even when attacking. It denies hits and wounds to your opponent. Less wounds taken = combat won or less crumbling afterward.

6 knights deployed in wall formation are 4inch deep. that means that if you can get a high lich on horse to keep up with the knights, you could give him the deathmask to screw over your enemy big. make it a death high lich with doom and darkness for very mean tricks.

You can use Birona's timewarp defensively. If the expected damage output becomes too high, the opponent might refrain from charging. ASF means the snakes will get to strike before taking damage, and usually before the opponent get to attack. In a similar manner, speed of light can prevent 56% of the damage from spear elves, possibly winning the fight even if they have mindrazor cast on them. Mark Wildman wrote a battle report demonstrating that tactic a few months back.

Nice jimmy! These where he tips I was looking for. This is a good motivation for building those knights I already have since the beginning. I was obsessed by the new warsphinxes and in the old book with the two u its of tomb guard I always liked.

Ty for the article, a pretty good summary and some interesting ideas indeed.

That was really good. I have been struggling to find a way to use my necros but now i want to have another shot with them! To the painting table!

Let me add my 2 cents on the magic in comparing Light versus Death augments/hexes for Necropolis Knights.

Light -
Damage avoidance -
Pha's Protection - -1 to hit means your opponent hits you 16.6% less.
Speed of Light - WS10 means your opponent hits you between 16.66% (WS4 or higher) to 33.33% less (WS3 or lower).

Combined Pha's and Speed of Light can permit you to take up to 50% less hits against WS3 or less. Against Ogres, Saurus, and such, this can keep you alive. However, this effect is mitigated against Hatred and ASF (if Speed of Light did not go off). Speed of Light is also Purple Sun/Pit of Shades protection.

Damage buffs -
Speed of Light - Increases chance to hit by 16% with WS10. Going first allows you to also cause more attacks before you take your own casualties.

Birona's Timewarp - Increases attacks by 40% (+2 per model). Going first allows you to also cause more attacks before you take your own casualties. Against Initiative 3 or lower, it gives you re-rolls, which increases your hits to about 75% of attacks (against WS 4 to 6) to 88% (against WS 2).

Speed of Light with Timewarp is the "I Hurt You" Combo. It will cause massive casualties against most opponents. Furthermore, your opponent is likely to hurt you given the WS10. This will crush MSU units. It will help with grinding.

Overall - Light in tandem will create devastating combos. However, Speed of Light is the lynchpin and the opponent's inability to dispel everything. Light's major drawback is that units with high strength and either (1) WS5 or better) or (2) Hatred will cause major issues because Light's strength is in discouraging hits. So units such as Beastigor, HE elites, WOC, Graveguard (with Banner of Barrows) and even Iron Guts can take massive casualties and then dish back a lot of hurt. As a result, a cagey opponent with a dispel scroll can ruin your day if you don't put pressure on him to burn the scroll.

Death -
Damage Avoidance -
Soulblight. -1 to Strength reduces damage taken as follows: S3 to S2 - 16%. S4 to S3, S5 to S4, S6 to S5, S6 to S5 - 33% reduction because it is -16% to wound and +16% to armor save. S7 to S6 - 16% reduction because of 6+ save.

Damage buffs -
Soulblight. -1 Toughness increases wounds by 16% for all models between T4 to T7 on the charge (pre-hex).

In other words, Soulblight fixes damage in and of itself. Death has potential because of its other effects in the game.

Doom and Darkness. Assuming you are winning combat, it increases the chance of a break test by giving them -3 LD.
Assuming no re-rolls, the odds of failing a LD test are:
LD10 - 2.7%
LD9 - 16.7%
LD8 - 27.8%
LD7 - 41.7%
LD6 - 58.3%
LD5 - 72.2%

Assuming re-rolls, the odds of failing a LD test are:
LD10 - 0.7%
LD9 - 2.8%
LD8 - 7.7%
LD7 - 17.3%
LD6 - 34%
LD5 - 52%

The odds aren't pretty. However, that's also why Death magic excels at killing characters. If you can blast the BSB, combats are a risky proposition for your opponent.

Finally, Death has great equalizer spells. Purple Sun can wholesale win games against Ogres. Caress is excellent as a sniper spell against BSBs.

Thanks for the comments gents, I do appreciate them. Things like this I believe bring the forum alive (no pun). Everyone chips in, shares ideas and gets a good point of reference to help veterans and beginners alike.

I take no credit for that article, everything in that article is from trial and error and reading other members experiences on Knights, so all credit goes back to the community in general. So thank you for allowing me to write it.

@Goggalor - That was me at the beginning of the year, I just got fed up with them and it's just because I wasn't using them properly combined with a lack of patience. I'm not the greatest player so I started taking two units of 6 (originally inspired by Mark Wildman) as that would also help me mitigate losses for bad decisions but it actually turned out to be a pretty solid tactic and its not really a unit an enemy can just walk through unless you let them.

@Bad Mojo - do you mind if I add that data into the article?

@Krael - Whilst I do agree with you about gearing the mask on the HLP I think that more comes down to 'Tactica: HLP' as opposed to the Necropolis Knights. I do appreciate you bringing it up though and I will add it as a sneaky tricks section.

Edit: Added a 'Sneaky Tricks' section.

This post has been edited by Jimmy on Aug 7 2012, 03:41 PM

Jimmy, and others with articles like this. I really appreciate them. I think it really helps put units, in prescriptive for everyone.


I think everyone from veteran players, intermediate players, and beginners all can agree on is Tomb Kings was written with synergy in mind. Not that any of us really understand the mind of Cruddace. Not going to bash the guy. I think he has great ideas that did not translate into rules very well without play testing.

I wonder if we can actually do this will all the units, including warriors (yes I know they suck) archers, everything in the book. Once people can see the strengths of them, and weaknesses. It is easier to see examples for me, then to just look at the army list. We may be able to see the grand Cruddace design, whatever that is.

One thing with math hammer is we would be better off changing the wording to anticipated hits, wounds, and causalities. As no one can really predict when Lady Luck will shine on you, or give you the stink eye, cause you made a pass at her as she walked by. This may help clear up the well on the forums it showed I would do a average of 10 wounds, why did I get 3 frustrations.

good job jimmy i enjoyed reading the tactica... I will be putting this to the test in 3 weeks at the NOVA open im using a snake heavy list..this is not my usual MO but it has worked well in test games soo im going to give it a shot..also im useing this list because I have 12 very well panted necroknights that need some attention

Sounds great, I'm keen to see your list though and compare it to what I'm currently running?

Well got my first game in for a while and decided to run with 6 necropolis knights. They did not disappoint, they took on 5 blood knights, a BSB and a vamp lord. They died but not before sending all but the lord back to nagash in a box. The lord escaped losing a wound but they did me proud.
Now they deserve an actual colour scheme instead of black camo. And also to get more games in.

This is a superb tactics article Jimmy.

Nice job mate, and thanks for taking the time to write it all up for us.

Thank you. A lot of great ideas in here and ways I have not yet used the Knights.

Thanks gents.

@Goggalor - Where's the battle report??

Tell us a bit more though, how many rounds of combat, was the vampire a tooled up combat beast? A lot of killing blows? Magic support?

For your entertainment, here's a rough comparison of 6 Necropolis Knights with magic versus common things you'll see. Formations change accordingly to maximize results.

BT - Birona's Timewarp
SoL - Speed of Light
SB - Soulblight

===

Grave Guard - Horde formation, 40, and Banner of Barrows. NK goes 6 wide.
BT - 29W vs. 6W. Unit explodes.
SoL - 19W vs. 8W. Unit down to ~10 models.
SB - 19W vs. 8W. Unit down to ~10 models.

EDIT - math was off on SB.

(550 pts v. 410 pts)

BT was the clear winner. Against ASL, BT gave re-rolls to everyone and stomps went at I3. SoL wasn't as impressive because Banner of Barrows (+1 to hit) negated its effects and the riders already hit on 3s. The SoL runs the risk of invocation saving the unit the next turn.

===

WoC Warriors Khorne/Frenzy Banner Halberds - 16, 7 wide. NK goes 5 wide to maximize.
BT - 12W vs. 4W. WoC unit is badly crippled, next round is wiped out.
SoL - 8W vs. 6W. WoC unit fights on, next round is in bad shape.
SB - 6W vs. 5W. WoC unit fights on, next round does ok.

(316pts v. 410pts)

BT was the clear winner again as going first reduced the WoC's fighting efficiency. SB was the big loser because it took 5W before striking. The following round looks bad for SB.

===

WoC Marauders, Frenzy, Flails - 20+, 5 wide. NK goes 4 wide.
BT - 18W to 3W (30/9W). Unit is in bad shape and possibly breaks.
SoL - 16W to 2W (20/9W).
SB - 13W to 2W (15/6W).

(150+ pts v 410 pts)

Marauders get massacred. The SB unit comes out looking pretty good.

However, if Marauders take GW and 50 of them...
Horde formation versus 6 wide.
BT - 24W to 8W (72/9). (marauders get 36 attacks)
SoL - 22W to 4W (160/27) (marauders get 40 attacks).
SB - 18W to 5W (marauders get 40 attacks)
(292 pts v 410 pts)

Ouch! ASF is great except when your opponent still heaps on a ton of attacks back. The marauders are hurt badly but the NK are heavily damaged as well. In the next round, the riders lose +1S so it's possible more knights are going to die. The SoL will take the least wounds and still be in operational shape next round. SB comes out injured but in the next round, it will be in good shape since it still wounds the same (-1T).

I guess it shows that Marauders with Khorne are just too good.

===

25 White Lions 7 wide versus 4 wide NK (125mm v. 200mm).
BT - 14W v. 7W
SoL - 13W v 5-6W
SB - 12W v 6W
(393 v 410 pts)

WL are somewhat similar to Executioners (DE) so the numbers come out about the same. In the meantime, they pack a nasty punch. Against BT, they lose noticeable efficiency and this will affect subsequent rounds of combat. However, the NKs lose even more. The WL would have perhaps 11 attacks back (versus 14) but the NKs are down to 28 attacks. Both SoL and SB are going to get badly hammered the next round.

===

Again, this is a general mathhammer discussion and not designed to be entirely precise but to give a rough idea.

The overall point? BT seems to be the best combat spell in most situations. Soulblight was the consistent laggard while SoL came in 2nd. We knew that though. Of course, all of this was tested in a vacuum. Each of the opposing units were typically smaller and did not have their own magic support. Also, the NKs were at full strength which maximized BT and SoL's wound potential, which in turn reduced the damage back.

very nice, mojo.
that you excluded the magicless matchups, should we conclude from that that we don't want to know?

Yes, something like that. The amount of wounds we take back or take first is quite horrific, especially in subsequent rounds of combat. The math would also swing greatly depending on whether we take 8 or 9 wounds, with the difference being up to 5 attacks and a stomp.

I know some of my numbers are wrong. However, the point of the general exercise is to show how much magic swings combats in our favor with NK. If magic isn't available, I'd say go with a War Sphinx where magic doesn't buff it as much.

Also, this isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for Light magic either but rather that you become very dependant on light magic to solve problems. First, BT is a 12" spell. That limited range is problematic. Furthermore, a good player sitting on his Dispel Scroll will wait for that spell. When that happens, it becomes a blood bath for the NK. Between Speed of Light and Soulblight, it's close to a push in many circumstances. The difference is that Soulblight has other uses (i.e., pelt the unit with shooting) and its powered up effect is quite debilitating on the opponent.

If I had Light, my general choices would be Speed of Light, Birona's Timewarp, Pha's Protection, and Banishment (defaulting to Shem's against scary monsters in Undead or Greater Demons). That's a poor percentage play.

If I had Death, my general choices would be Purple Sun, Caress of Laniph, Soulblight, and perhaps default something to Spirit leech if necessary. I'm slightly more likely to get all the spells I want.

you persistently mention soulblight. If we state that soulblight is available from the nehek lore in the form of dessication, and spirrit leech from the titan, why not go for the light mage definitively and confidently?

but I hear you on the magic dependence, I like depending on timewarp as little as depending on pruple sun though.

Jimmy trying to get my head around battle chronicler before i start to post reports as yours look so good.
For the knights well the first thing they had to overcome was a unit of dire wolves. A forest that tried to beat them up then a sprit host that was a speed bump. 2 turns to combat res it to death then the mash up.
I got the charge off, i had to otherwise s7 would have eaten me alive before i got to start. So 6 NK Vs 5 blood knights, a BSB and a combat lord ( quick blood, 4+ ward, +2 strenght sword, Red fury). My HLP cast dessication on the unit at full power, -3 toughness ( good but they still had a good save) and -1 strength ( what i really wanted to hit but ah well). His lord goes first and causes 6 wounds at s6. His BSB vamp misses all his attacks and the blood knights cause 1 wound due to some good saves. I KB 1 knights in return and get one normally. However i do KB his BSB and his lord! ward save time....... BSB fails his! Lord passes. Ultracurses.
next round i kill off his remaining bloodKnights with 2KB and 1 normally. His lord however reduces me to 2 snakes. But he has help the next turn with the remainder of his ghouls joining in. Weathering the attentions of the lord only the champion remained. Putting alll his attacks into the lord 2 KBs where rolled along with 3 normal wounds. The lord failed one normal save and thenn his ward save, however the real test was now. 2 KB saves with a 4+ ward, one had to fail! But it was no use he passed both and with a breathless scream the champion went down to the ghouls. However the lord had been stopped fromm rampaging the board killing everything else as that was turn 6 and there was only my turn to go.
Here is a picture of the final moments:


And that is why they will be coming back in the next fight.