Ogre Kingdoms

Full intro and my own thoughts later.

In the mean time be my guest in thinking up/discussing some anti Ogre Kingdoms tactics.

Run in terror! Oh wait... we don't flee.

Uhh... my pal plays ogres, and I've never beaten him.

Make sure to deny him the Bull Charge using Chariots plus Urgency. Remember that they are immune to FEAR not panic, so if you win a combat with a large group of Chariots he may flee at a paltry 2D6, and you have a good chance of eliminating him with your chariots.

Another tactic that plays on the ogres substandard leadership is the SSC (when it fires, and hits). But it's not very dependable.

I haven't tried this yet, but the poisoned attacks of Tomb Swarms/Scorpions might be effective, ogres have about average weapon skill (i think )

Leadbelchers can be Frighteningly Deadly! I have no idea how to stop them yet...

I'm very new to this game, as is he, so I may be misinterpreting the rules, anyway, it seems we have few options but to keep them at range or get them to flee.

Immediate thoughts :

1/ SSC with Skulls of the Enemy - making sure HLP/LP/TK/TP are close enough to cast Righteous Smiting for additional shots.

Basically, blocks of Ogres should be large targets, so with multiple shots per turn, get the catapults to inflict wounds and hopefully break them (Ogres only have Ld of 7 or 8 - with -1 for SoE, you've a pretty good chance to break them)

2/CoS - again, low Ld for Ogres means they're vulnerable. Of course, the Ogre player will probably try to dispel this, but than means they have less dispel dice against Righteous Smiting (see above)

3/ At closer ranges, try Sekhubi's Incantation of Vengeance - 1d6 S4 hits could kill and Ogre, so aim for any characters in range, reducing Ogre Ld scores, then hit with SSC or CoS. Unfortunately only 18" range, but possibly still useful.

4/ Urgency on Ushabti, Chariots, Bone Giants - basically, deprive the Ogres of Bull Rush, keep them at range, and let SSC/CoS do the real damage!

5/ Shoot down the gnoblars and other supporting troops with massed archery

6/ Prayer .....

While i believe the SSC is a good investment, I'm not so sure it will do fantastic. Ogres are frightning fast. Therefore i would suggest going with fast troops as well.

I'm not going to repeat what others say, i think they are good pieces of advice, maybe except for the CoS, the leadblechers should be able to close in on that and take out what ever that is there pretty darn quick.

I do suggest however having a Prince/King armed with a Flail of Skulls, as they are extremely handy against ogres.

Although I haven't faced an Ogre Army, I do have a lot of experience dealing with individual Ogre Units fighting alongside other armies; my brother fields an Ogre ROR with his Empire Army and my 4th opponent in the Necro tournament took 2 units of 3 ogres as part of his DOW army.

Against the DOW, I killed 1 ogre with a single hit from SSC and then finished off the rest of the unit when the TK (in a chariot of fire) wielding a Flail Skull and another chariot slammed into them as part of a charge that had 2 other chariots hitting his General's unit. The impact hits and Flail generated enough wounds to kill the 2 remaining ogres outright.

On the other hand, the 2nd unit wiped out & overran my 5 horse archers, 10 archers, & SSC crew in sequence.

Against my brother's ROR (4 ogres including Gulag & banner bearer), my smaller units performed just as poorly, but my 4 Ushabti generally were able to easily beat them in CC.

So both Chariots that charge and Ushabti are able to stand up to Ogres, and the SSC can be effective, but smaller skeleton units rarely last 1 turn.

The Death Mask of Kharnut and the Flail of Skull would be high on my priority list of magic item. And maybe the Standard of the Cursing Word on a chariot, on Ogre you could do a few wounds, and on Gnoblar it should be a lot more !

I've NEVER lost to ogres, I run a unit of 16 archer and 2 cats. Half of the time most of his army doesn't make it across the board. They are just too vunerable to shooting. Then I force him into charging my blocks of infantry and flank charge him. Focus on provoking panic tests. All it takes is one ogre most of the time to do this. Magic phase archers shoot one unit, shooting phase they shoot another. Aim the catapults for the center of his lines to maximize the potential of a scatter. Deploy back into your deployment zone. He won't get his charges til turn 3, and that's all it takes to weaken them beyond repair.

I played in a RTT this last weekend (first time with TK's)and faced a bull dominated ogre army with a trio of yehti's and two 3 man cannon toters. it was the easiest army that I faced all day.
I was running a Queen army with two units of 20 archers all with poison. my Ushabti and bone giant waited till they were inches away and charged.
my two tomb scorpions had no reason to ICFB so they deployed on the flank and ate frozen yehticicles.
He had no way to stop my magic and they just withered away. I shot his 3 man units to death first and caused panic as well.

Biggest problem I had in the day with this list was dealing with Heavy cavalry but I am working on that.

Ws Ogre's u need swarms, scorpions, bowmen a HW regement and a unit of Chariots...

poison attack are great against Ogre's!

Magic and Shooting.

I myself am a member of an Ogre Forum and am thinking of collecting them. The things they are most worried about is shooting and magic, so take a whole lot of magic and lots of shooting, a khalida army would work very well!

Also, flanking works well!

Had a great game at GW where the players, if they had any, were allowed to include any kind of special characters for free in their army. However they only have 500 points to work with. Khalida (since i didn't have Settra *sob*) and poision archers were great. Along with a tomb scorpian. We killed many armies, including a good old VC with Mannfred, A chaos daemon army lead by Bel'Kor, Orcs lead by Grimgor, who surpisingly fell to a combined might of Khalida and Scorpian. Only to be halted by the one man army called Valten. DAMN THAT BASTARD!!!

.... oh yeah we also faced an Ogre army with the butcher guy. I couldn't stop him from beefing up his Units but with no armor and hardly any numbers.. poision did it's work. but i have to say Leadbelcher=Scary.

Assume that you're not using Khalida, how can you possibly shoot down the Ogres before they reach you? You get about 2 turns max (if you got the first turn) before these 12 inch run ogres bash you to pieces and considering you have to roll 5+ to hit AND THEN 5+ minimum just to wound, your archers (as i found out) will barely scratch them by the time they get to you, then ur screwed coz skeleton warriors just give up and die from ogres and thats not even when charged!

SSC's....? panic and OK don't mix...now their fleeing...

Terror? Low LD and terror don't mix...BG good, but there is an item your TK can take to let him cause Terror...this could come as a nasty surprise to those Bulls when they get in range...

We have multiple options for preventing March moves...unless OK are like Dwarves...

Archers may struggle to cause Wounds but OK do not have a lot of troops to play with...

and what about the COS...? Again low LD (and expensive!) troops and the COS don't mix...gut magic may be reliable to cast, but its pretty poor defensively and you rarely face more than 1 Butcher...

Their leadership is never a problem for them thou, with a lord nearby at all times with a LD of 10, none of their ogres will be fleeing any time soon and even if they do they will rally without fail next turn!

Their ranged attacks are devastating, their speed is sick, their magic phase is so simple and easy to cast things that give them higher toughness, meaning ur catapaults barely wound and ur bowmen will do NOTHING against them.

I've sent Ushabti and a Scorpion into a 700 point ogre 6 man unit before inc one mage and a bruiser and they both got mullered even though one was in the rear! Ok i had bad rolling but none the less! Then I sent 24 warriors into the front and 24 in the flank at the same time and I STILL LOST COMBAT!!

No way can people say OK are underpowered!!! WE NEED MORE HELP WITH OK! PLEASE!

Ummm, actually, you killed him on the wrong rules...

In the paragraph where it says that he counts as a lord 'n' stuff, it also says: "Skrag counts as a Slaughtermaster"
And slaughtermasters are immune to poison, so, if you tell him, he'll be spewing!!

Actually, he didn't mention the Slaughtermaster himself, but the units he was magically "beefing up"

question: what do you do about gorgers?

they can come in on your table edge and reak havok among the ssc, cos, and archers. i have a person in my group who always uses one in 2000 points(dont know what he uses in under 2000) and im worryed theres nothing i can do but sit a unit in back and wait for the gorger or hope my archers or casket guard(ya right)can kill him

please help

Doesn't the "I shot 25% of your unit in one turn" rule cause a panic test?
Just a thought...

As Ogre Kingdoms do not have conventional artillery, you may find your regular list leaves you a TScorpion or 2 spare...yo probably wont use ICFB, and can instead use you TS's to protect your SSC's. As the Gorger cant charge on the Turn it arrives it should give you chance to respond to it when it arrives...(as the Gorger must charge the closest target you can force him to engage the units you want...)

They are not ideally suited for this role, as the TS's statline is virtually identical to the Gorgers (we have poison= bonus! But we crumble=bad karma,) so its anyones guess who'll come out on top.

The charge should be all important, so if you can pin the Gorger in place whilst your TS gets ready to charge you should come out on top. V.small units of Skellies should do the job (or even LCAV or skellies from the banner of Hidden Dead...) Remember the Gorger cannot over-run when it wipes its opponents out so a unit of skellies under 10 strong should just disappear between the Gorgers attacks and CR, leaving the Gorger exposed and pinned in place for your TScorp to splat...

I think OK is a hard oponent to fight with Tomb Kings. Be sure he doesn't gets the right spell on the wrong place for you ! It costed me a battle ones..

SSC work fine as long as you have 2 SSC on 2k, ogres can substain pretty much damage before they will be beaten by us in CC.

Never Charge with 1 unit on an Ogre unit, The change they hold is pretty big because they almost alway fight back. Try to break their units in one round, this is hard beceause you don't have fear bonus.

In order to take care of those Gorgers I'dd say use TScorpions in combo with magic to charge first, this will most likely anough, just dont screw up with the dice.

Ushabti are perfect fighting them in the front, they are superior in WS, S & I But lack in number and defense. So always support them by either magic or Charriots.

The most dangerous OK army list I can think of is one using MSU, thats pretty powerfull VS Tomb Kings. Oh and dont fear those Leadbelchers, do wont do anough damage to wipe an unit so you can always summon them back

I disagree. The charge is the nastiness thing the OK have...
I find "playing OK alot and even now having a OK army" is charge them before they charge you!!!..
TK can do this because we can magically charge...

If you can get in and overwhelm them and always healing what they kill then you have them...
This is where tomb guard are nice!!!. And the flail of skulls . Charge them down with your TK-TP with the flail on a chariot.. Even on his own he can kill a unit of three ogres .
And the scaryess thing is fighting OK armies with wave upon wave of 3 ogre bull units....
The large 6+ ogre units are SSC targetted.... Hmmmm very much agreed really nice on a hit SPLAT!!...
And even on a 4+ hit the SSC still does 1D6 wounds .

Ofcourse there are exeptional units, like 2 Heroes on Charriots + Unit... But its still better to team up 2 units like Ushabti and Chariots in order to break oponents. 1st its more reliable and 2nd Its cheaper and 3rd Its more logic, after all how many armies contain multiple units of TP and Tkings On chariots.. Ogres Won't come alone..

Be aware that all OK heroes can have s7 Attacks ( Even butchers ! , SB = +3S )

Multiple small units of Bulls are very scarry indeed, the best thing to do is what I think is refusing a flank and try not to catch his army in one piece..

Yes but the butcher has to take SB to get his str up to 7...
And if you have the flail then you can kill him before he can hit you...
Even if he takes your challenge with a ogre champion well- then you will get some cool overkill . Or you can just fluff it ....

Erm.. As I said, yes the Butcher need an SB.

Well the bad point is that I don't take the flail of skulls... I prefer to boost the overal power of the unit. And because I don't change my list (or don't make anti list ) I've got to do it with 3s6 ws5 attacks :S ..

However its an nice idea to take an heroe with the flail of skulls, not only VS OK but versus many other cheesy monsters it might be a helping hand

What I meant was that it costs alot more point to give a Butcher the SB?. And he is not as more effective than a Brusier???.
And you can still kill him when you charge?. Havin more chance to charge because of our magic move ..