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 Those War Machines And Cavalry, Can we kill them?
minnow86
Posted: Sep 22 2011, 11:50 AM


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I have played Empire many times, and one thing always gets in the way. Yep, you guessed it. The Steam Tank. A Toughness 10, anti-magicky, Unbreakable ironclad monstrosity that can happily make a gaping hole in a Necrosphinx at 300pts? How do we kill it? The Volley Gun and Rocket Battery hurt as well, and our lack of Chaos Knight-style cavalry makes our Horsemen easy pickings for Inner Knights!

My sole saviour has been my Casket. It kills State Troops by the dozen, and thanks to detachments, units tend to be packed together in an Empire army, so lots of flying souls. It always comes unstuck when the Steam Tank of Volley Gun turns my Hiero into a colander.
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The Filth And The Fluff
Posted: Sep 22 2011, 01:04 PM


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You've answered your own question, the Casket is best for taking outunits with low wound counts, as such its perfect for warmachines and the steamtank (and no atmour save allowed).

If facing off against an Empire army the tragets for my Casket are 1. Cannons (the only thing that can reliably kill it and my necrosphinx), 2. Steamtank, 3. Anyother warmachine.

After that it's great against the pope mobile or small units. The catapult is there to get rid of large infantry blocks. Its also worth remembering that with the Stanks steampoint rules once you get it down to half wounds it becomes pretty much imobile unless your opponent wants to risk losing it so I'd fire the casket at it maybe once or twice then move on.

As far as their knights go they don't like catapults concentrated bowfire or any ranked infantry unit that you can gets lots of attacks and killing blow off with so why send your cavalry up against them in the first place?

Hope that helps.


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Check out my blog The Filth and The Fluff
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Disc10
Posted: Sep 22 2011, 02:07 PM


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QUOTE (The Filth And The Fluff @ Sep 22 2011, 07:04 PM)
You've answered your own question, the Casket is best for taking outunits with low wound counts, as such its perfect for warmachines and the steamtank (and no atmour save allowed).

Except of course the steam tank has 10 wounds! And an engineer is leadership ten so the most wounds you'll ever do it are 6. Not exactly to be sniffed at, but that still leaves it with 4 wounds, and that's assuming they fail the test by much anyway. It's still probably your best option though, along with catapults since they have about the same chance to cause the same number of wounds, you just have to worry about hitting them.
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RejjeN
Posted: Sep 22 2011, 03:37 PM


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QUOTE (Disc10 @ Sep 22 2011, 07:07 PM)
QUOTE (The Filth And The Fluff @ Sep 22 2011, 07:04 PM)
You've answered your own question, the Casket is best for taking outunits with low wound counts, as such its perfect for warmachines and the steamtank (and no atmour save allowed).

Except of course the steam tank has 10 wounds! And an engineer is leadership ten so the most wounds you'll ever do it are 6. Not exactly to be sniffed at, but that still leaves it with 4 wounds, and that's assuming they fail the test by much anyway. It's still probably your best option though, along with catapults since they have about the same chance to cause the same number of wounds, you just have to worry about hitting them.

Though the thing with the steam tank is that, once it's down just 2 wounds it starts to become risky to actually use it, thus while it can reliably get 1 steam point even at 7 (or is it always rolling UNDER the current wound level?) wounds left that pretty much turns it into a glorified cannon. Watched a friend play with it just yesterday and because an Ogre cannon took one wound off it and he rolled a 6 on his subsequent steam point generation it took a wound, was left way out on the flank and wasn't able to move.

In the end, it didn't do anything for the whole game because of that one bad roll.
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TheNerdMachine
Posted: Sep 23 2011, 03:01 PM


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I have a question, I haven't played against the empire yet. But a friend of mine is going to. I flipped through the book he got and I read that steam tank doesn't take Ld tests. The LoD says it's a test. So I want to know why this works on the steam tank?
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Disc10
Posted: Sep 23 2011, 03:14 PM


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Errrm, that's a good question. I may have to ask my Empire playing friend to check that...

Nope, he checked his book and it has a leadership of 10, large target, unbreakable, terror, impact hits (d3 per sp), unit strength 10, but nothing about not taking leadership tests. Older edition (by which I mean older than 7th) or getting mixed up with unbreakable perhaps?
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TheNerdMachine
Posted: Sep 23 2011, 03:19 PM


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must be an old edition thing then.
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KramDratta
Posted: Sep 23 2011, 07:31 PM


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The Steamtank automatically passes all Characteristic tests, apart from Initiative, which it failsautomatically. However, note that for game purposes a Ld test is not a Characteristic test, as the latter are those rolled on a single die.

So yeah the Steamtank can be wounded by the Casket, altough I think it has Ld 10, (pah) so ideally you should drop a doom & darkness on it before.
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Nekhesh
Posted: Jan 25 2012, 03:26 PM


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scorpions, carrion, horesmen and stalkers can all reliably take out warmachines in my experience and as for the steam tank if you get incantation of vengence, cast it on the tank and it ciunts all ground (open as well) as dangerous=, meaning it fails on a 1 er a 2 and takes D6 wounds if it fails since it is a chariot laugh.gif

plus you will reduce it's movement value by D3 (im assuming this works on the 3 inch per steam point, much like the anvil of doomk halfs the steam point value instead of the overal total) if you get what i mean.


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And the ground shakes as the kings march to war.....
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teclis
Posted: Jan 30 2012, 01:45 PM


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against steam tanks:


QUOTE
DAMAGE:

- spirit leach - because its easy to have on your lvl1 mages. stronger version can be casted on 24" so its a safe distance. liche in a unit with tomb king Ld10

- casket of souls - u can even throw him a doom and darkness spell. on average 4 wounds with D&D

- stalkers gaze

- SSC ( if it is a must but i would rather kill cannons first)

- bone giant with great weapon, but first a spell -D3 Toughness and Strength. he slices that shiny can like butter

- Necrosphinx - HKB what more to say

- purple sun - obvious

- tomb king with Destroyer of Eternities - with glorious charge item (costs 2.5 slaves) and a necrotect inside a unit. thats 5A with rroll to hit in first round when charges, and u only need 6s to wound = pa pa steamy!

- killing blow spell cast on Necrosphinx and tomb king with DoE

- lots of bow firepower towards tank (if u got nothing juicier to shoot at).

- incantation of vengence as Nekhesh mentioned it in previous comment


SACRIFICING TRICKS:

- charge with a unit of 5 (or even 1) heavy horsemen (can also be carrion, but horseman are cheaper) = the steam tank will be trapped because it can only hit in his own CC phase. in his round of cc he will grind you to death, but it cant overrun. great success!

- put a unit of horseman or carrion 1" in front of him so the tank must charge u. it cant overrun so it only moves 1"



against war machines:

QUOTE
- carrion - theres nothing to add here. carrion with 3A S4 will kill every imperial war machine crew in just one turn (with average dice rolls).

- casket of souls - if your opponent is not thinking, u might be lucky and your spirits can bounce across battlefield on 3+. if there is no 6" 3+ pass for  spirits => then better to use it against stenks and knights.

- light horsemen - scout. yes. scout. enemy handgunners and crossbowmen cant hurt ya if they dont see you. grapeshot can btw. let him do it. let him shoot at your mounted skelies instead of warsphinxs/necrosphinxs/hierotitans. that is if u manage to squeeze them behind the enemy lines (12" scout).

- SSC if you are facing a heavily armoured core list.

- heavy horsemen - i wouldnt use them. they are the lame version of carrion in this case - carrion have -1 to hit and T4, heavy horsemen have no save against handguns and t3 and I2 (not so great against imperial I3 crew)

- sepulchar stalkers - these guys are just brilliant. they can shoot at the stenk and knights (can also be warmachines if u feel like) when they come out. the key is to position them  first to shoot and in the next turn charge (swiftstride) the enemy warmachine.

- swarms - great choice because of a W10 stat, it gives u survivability against grapeshots (again if he feels like shooting at bugs).

- tomb scorps - same as swarms but less effective (less wounds, more movement = doesnt matter because it cant charge in the first round).

- archers and chariot archers - its a delightful sight when your 6 charioteers kill a warmachine in a one round of shooting. with archers u might think about it, it depends on your unit size. though i always shoot at the machines with my archers (my list has no problems with empire infantry)

- necrosphinx - though i would advice u to use it to kill his caster lord.



against 1+ knight tins:

QUOTE
- casket - duh!

- tomb heralds with a lot of KB attacks

- tomb king/prince with great weapons, obsidian blade, sword of antiheroes (against big tin unit with general + BSB its 6 S7 attacks niiiiiice)

- necroknights - in this epic fight both of u have 3+ as, but u are much killier

- colosuses with great weapons. it gets even messier if he fails the fear test smile.gif

- necrosphinx

- settra say no more

- tomb scorps

- stalkers - u need 6s to wound so better shoot at stenk instead

- tomb guard - halberds with Razor standard  chop chop!

- djaf on chariots


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Nekhesh
Posted: Feb 23 2012, 02:30 PM


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i do correct myself, please ignore my mention of the incantation of vengence in my presvious comment. As it turns out its better than i thought, after playing a game against the dreaded tank i discovered it cannot move over dangerous terrian, the incantation of vengence turning all open ground to dengerous teriian ohmy.gif so yeah deal with the tank by stopping it from moving smile.gif


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And the ground shakes as the kings march to war.....
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Maglok
Posted: Apr 10 2012, 09:17 AM


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Why can it not move over dangerous terrain?


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RejjeN
Posted: Apr 10 2012, 10:12 AM


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QUOTE (Maglok @ Apr 10 2012, 02:17 PM)
Why can it not move over dangerous terrain?

No idea if it's applicable now with the new book, but in the old one I believe it had a rule that prevented it from ever moving into or over difficult terrain. Dangerous Terrain is by definition also Difficult Terrain (I would imagine... Though don't quote me on it), someone else might know the details.
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Nekhesh
Posted: Apr 22 2012, 10:45 AM


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it is not applicable in the new book, it is now a chariot so it follows what i previously said and will fail on a 1 or a 2 and take d6 wounds smile.gif


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And the ground shakes as the kings march to war.....
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Chandlergriz
Posted: Apr 26 2012, 01:03 PM


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QUOTE
it is not applicable in the new book, it is now a chariot so it follows what i previously said and will fail on a 1 or a 2 and take d6 wounds 


The only place I see where a chariot fails a Dangerous Terrain test on a 1 or a 2 is in a marshland, in which case Chariots, Cavalry and Monstrous Cavalry all fail on a 1 or a 2, but the Chariots are the only ones that suffer D6 wounds....

I cannot find anywhere else in the rulebook where it says Chariots fail all dangerous terrain tests on a 1 or 2 ????


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Stay awhile and listen...
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Karnack
Posted: May 20 2012, 10:08 AM


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With the steam tank anything that can avoid the armour so SSC, death wizards, stalkers, casket, Colossus with a bow and HKB models. So decent S6 rolls can eventually whittle it down as well, 50% chance of a wound.

Warmachines are easier to deal with, fast flankers, entombed units, SSC, death wizards and light wizards have got two great spells for warmachines. Phas ofc 4+ chance to nullify the shot if its not using BS and -1 to hit if it does, ofc problem being that unless you boost it your only protecting one target. The Net spell though is great as it instantly shuts down a warmachine since they fail strength tests automaticlly.


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Please pay no attention Stalkers sneaking up on your warmachines
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