Ok this feels realy embarassing and akward to talk about but ever since vulcan's thread this issue has been screaming to come out like an impatient alien larva while my writing skills decide to flop about uselessly trying to express this like a magikarp attempting to use judgement. Like as if something in my mind kept yelling at me to "Spit it out already ya damn wimp!".
So i'm just going to say it for the longest time i've identified as androgynous, i love to walk the line between male and female.
Unfortunately my ability to express this is rather limited considering my parents would not approve and i am living under they're roof(Well ok my mom might though she'd have trouble trying to understand it, but i mean she did ask if i wanted an operation to be female after i shaved my legs once even though she flipped the fuck out about the leg shaving. while my dad would probably rage and try to kill me.) blah blah blah sorrow sorrow conflict conflict self loathing self loathing you get the gist of it
The real trouble is.. now i honestly have no idea what i am wether i'd prefer staying a male with effeminate traits or fully identifying as female. and rather recently i've been feeling more and more like i'd be better off as a female wanting more feminine traits and less masculine traits and feeling like i'd be able to more freely express myself as a woman rather than a man. Additionally the concept of cross-dressing excites me and the concept of being called a she also somewhat excites me.
Aaaargh i'm so confused, i'd like to say i'm transgender but it just doesn't sound right because it feels like i'm insulting all those people who've had to deal with a lifelong hatred of being they're biological sex y'know?
And i'm not sure if fully indentifying as female will truly make me happy or if i'll just end up yearning for androgynity again.
Yeah, i just had to get this off my chest. And i don't expect any but i'd apreciate any advice and/or guidance on this issue.

There's a different story for everybody but you sound like where I was a few years ago. I can only speak for myself but believe me when I say that this isn't so much a decision as it is first a journey in finding yourself.

For me it was a matter of repression until I decided to act on my obsessions. I had a very unique and unusual experience. What happened was that because I went to a private high school with only about 70 students and an outstanding staff, I was free to express myself. My first instance of crossdressing at school was on Halloween but I carried it into other points in time, once casually attending as a girl.

I can only assume that not many get such shelter in everyday life. This seems to hold up to your own situation so I can't recommend doing what I did. My advice is just to take it slow, there's no race to the finish line. Its easy to panic but more rewarding to learn.

Going by what you've said, would I be right in saying that you have yet to crossdress? If you're at the "curious" stage then I'd guess that the logical step would be to seek some way of testing the waters... but again, I'm not recommending my method. I was very direct and blunt only because I had a safety net but I did learn one thing that should be universal: keep good company.

I never could have made my first steps without friends who love me unconditionally. Be it friends or family, find some form of support. Doing it entirely on your own will only make your fall into the rabbit hole that more turbulent. Take it slow. You'll KNOW when you're content with your identity and who you want to be.

On another note, I highly recommend reading Hourou Musuko. It follows two transgendered middle school students, one a boy and the other girl. The pacing is very slow but its emotionally gripping for this reason, leaving room for character development and learning to adore the characters regardless of their human flaws. The author is oddly very perceptive and accurate in her depictions of the related struggles that most would only know firsthand. Stick to it, baring with the slow burn and you may get attached to it ;)

I'm homeschooled, and rarely let out of the house without one of my parents so yeah.. my situation leaves me unable to really do anything. Hopefully i'll be at college next year if i can get past they're insistence on it being too early¬_¬. Getting out of this hellhole has been overdo for far too long.
I also don't really think i have anyone like that.. i mean sure theres this one friend whos pretty open minded and accepting but i'm still not sure if i'd be comfortable trusting him with that secret.

If you think it may be better to wait until you're out living the college life, then there's nothing I can really say to contradict that. Obviously enough you know the situation, so if you're willing to keep it all inside until then because its the safest option then I guess that's whats best.

The bright side is that while your options may be limited right now being in college does open up many doors socially. You'll find tons of new folk and group activities to get involved with. Chances are you'll meet some good people there even if it ends up being few and far between.

Oh yeah, and to respond to the crossdressing note vulcan stated that i forgot to answer.. actualy yes, i have crossdressed. i was doing it semi weekly when my parents were away back when i was 14 but then stopped out of shame, i then got the urge to do so again at 16 but i also dropped it again out of a mixture of slight feelings of shame and the fact that i got paranoid of them finding out after my cat dragged a pair of panties out of my room heh.. that is kind of funny looking back. I have recently shamelessly picked up the habit again.(Though it is really tricky finding times when i can actualy do so without the chance of being caught.)

Not to be a naysayer or anything, but what's so bad with being a guy? I think we're pretty cool.

For me its not having cute tits and a curvy figure.

Anyway, if it makes you happy then there's nothing to be ashamed of. You've got only one life so you're at your best living it in a way that makes you comfortable with yourself. I guess its just a matter of being strategic up to the point where you can safely act on these kinds of things ^^;

Just to weigh in with my opinion, I come to believe that sex and gender are mutually exclusive and not the same. Sex is physical and gender more more to do with identity and from what little I now of transgender issues and crossdressing is that while some are born male/female, their brains are wired the opposite way. Therefore it's not so much a matter of choice as it's just nature. I hope I'm somewhere in that ballpark, I'm a (mostly) asexual male so I'm hardly an authority on the topic.

As for you Shift, as the Bard said: "To thine self be true." Granted, crossdressing is outside the mainstream perception of normal, but what is "normal" anyway? As long as you're comfortable with yourself and it's not hurting others, go ahead and do it. No one has the right to judge you for simply being who you are. Hope that helps.

EDIT: Oh, and the Magical Platypus loves you.

If we were to judge that by context, you'd be quoting Polonius, a good-for-nothing bum that got stabbed by Hamlet because he was lurking behind a curtain trying to pull cloak-and-dagger bullshit in affairs that weren't any of his business.

Although your point on gender and sex being separate concepts I do agree with. Sex is something you're born with, and I think to try and change that goes against the whole "Be true to thine self" train of thought. After all, your are what you physically are, and to alter yourself for solely cosmetic purposes I feel betrays a very basic part of what you are. Gender, however, is what you make it to be. After all, it's the cultural context that makes certain clothes "women's clothes." If you want to crossdress, that's fine I guess, but I think you have horrid fashion sense. I just think that sex is a part of who you are, even if you don't like it. To change it is to lie to yourself, and that's really where I personally draw the line.

I disagree for the most part.

I believe sex is incidental. If people feel as though their mind and body aren't in sync, then I feel as though they're in their own private hell that only they can really understand.

You and I are two dudes who's mind tells us that were dudes, and luckily, our bodies agree with our brains. Ever think about what it'd be like it we were wired just a little bit differently?

Ever since Vulc came out with this, I've given it more thought, and the more thought I put into it, the more I sympathize. Its gotta be rough. I'll never be able to directly relate, but I can get an idea for what its like. Pretty much every social situation that we take for granted has the potential to be really awkward, or even dangerous in certain conditions. Its made all the worse when you realize that its nobody's fault.

If switching gender will help alleviate this condition, then I'm all for it. Then again, I'm not the type that think God made us a certain way and we need to stay a certain way, lest we face His wrath. If I did believe in God, I would think he'd just want his creations to be happy, so long as their path to happiness didn't directly infringe upon anyone else's path. This situation does not. The clashing is at a philosophical level, which can be easily solved by either coming to a mutual agreement, or just walking away from one another. Either one of these people going through a gender change would not infringe upon our paths, unless you had some sort of mental issue. I don't think you do, so it remains philosophical.

Being true to one's self means doing what is right for you, and not for someone else's sake. Once you clearly define your path to happiness, the only way to stay true to yourself is to stay on that path, and compromise for no one, even if it pisses them off. They'll get over it and move on, but if you compromise you've only hurt yourself. I've come to the understand that the meaning of life is to simply live. So live.

I think what we all need to do is watch more Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia, specifically the episodes that feature Mac (a proud straight man) flirting a relationship with a pre-op open tranny. Wherever you sit on the fence, if you have a soul, it'll make you laugh. Best show on TV.

It all varies from one fellow to the next. Decide it for your own self what is right for you and work toward your vision of bliss. Even a nihilist should have something to live for.

That having been said, I respectfully voice my offense to your notion that what you are physically is irreversible. Its like telling an overweight person that they will always be a fat fuck and that they'd better learn to live with it.

Once that "fat fuck" commits to slimming down, they have something to live for. Is it all for cosmetic purposes? Who gives a shit. Once they lose that weight, perhaps they will begin to realize what can now be accomplished, things they never dreamed possible due to the restraints bestowed upon them. In the long run they could have enriched their lives and learned to value it more in turn.

Transgender issues are much the same thing. I'm non-op but I respect the wishes of others to undergo surgery. Nobody's an idiot in these cases. Everybody understands fully that they can never conceive. That is a non-issue to those who seek reassignment. It is simply to live life to meet all of your dreams and aspirations and to achieve it to the most authentic outcome possible.

I've wasted most of my life pretending to be happy with 'what' I am on the outside. My ongoing fight with depression is crushing at times but having a totem to help guide relieves me of the burden. If you can never express who your are from the bottom of your heart in the physical world then chances are you'll be doomed to an everlasting internal struggle.

My appreciation and envy for what I perceive to be your projected confidence in who and what you are is without animosity or judgment. The fact of the matter is that I'm not so fortunate. How could I be lying to myself when the ethereal beauty of the concept brings such joy? Well, should that be the case then I stand by the statement that selfishness is the core instinct of humanity. If I'm lying to myself then I choose to believe it.

Dude, you just described my life for the past four years...

...and despite all that, I was still the biggest guy at the meet.

Projected? What gave you the feeling I'm putting on a show? There's no ruse to my manhood. I like not having to worry about Aunt Flow coming to visit every month or having to worry about whether or not I want to harbor a parasite for 9 months every time I have sex.

And a fat fuck working out and getting your plumbing reworked are two very different things. Working out is a behavioral change which, as I said before, is fine. Transgender surgery works contrary to the traditional operation in that you're actually going in and physically ruining one of your organs. You're removing your ability to procreate in order to change the fact you were born with a Y chromosome (Which, by the way, doesn't go away with transgender surgery). I won't pretend that I know where you're coming from philosophically, but as one person to another, I have to ask, "Do you really want a vagina that badly?" I had surgery for a hernia just last week, and I can tell you, it's not pleasant. Surgery is a huge commitment to make for something as trivial as what you've got downstairs. It just seems overblown and spiteful to me.

EDIT: And yes, I realize you're non-op, but at this point I'm making my case against people who would go under the knife because they didn't like what they got.

I'm sorry if my intended compliment came off as anything other than what I had in mind. What I said was that you were clearly projecting your own confidence and feelings on the issue as it relates to you: that YOU LIKE being a man. And that's fine. I envy that you are so content and at peace. If only it were so easy for myself is all I'm saying. That's something I don't have at this point in life.

I'll repeat: "Everybody understands fully that they can never conceive. That is a non-issue to those who seek reassignment. It is simply to live life to meet all of your dreams and aspirations and to achieve it to the most authentic outcome possible"

By which I meant that those who do it KNOW and ACCEPT that their genetic makeup cannot be altered. It is to live life in comfort, to achieve the most authentic outcome POSSIBLE. If the issue is abandoning the ability to procreate, that's purely a philosophical dispute that YOU harbor as a point of contention.

VulcanEDIT: I'm not fueling any embers. At least, I'm not trying to. But as I said, I do respectfully take offense to the notion. I'm only trying to be as civil as my own inner monologues, which is quite literally me sitting pensive with a cup of tea at the computer. Don't take anything as volatile, I sincerely do NOT mean such.

At one point I thought more along the lines of Regulus. But what's "lying to yourself" when you get down to it? Aren't you lying to yourself when you look in the mirror and say "I love what I see and love being me" just because gender's taboo?

While there's a certain logic about accepting the things you cannot change, what you cannot change is widely varied. The only real concern in my mind is whather or not you'd look good in the end.

I would also like to add that with 7 billion people on this planet, we don't need every single one of them coupling up for the purpose of reproducing. Matter of fact, I think we need to trim down the population a few billion. Or six. I'll leave the details on how to do that up to your imagination.

I think we're stocked up on human beings for the time being, thanks. I think Mars might be running a bit low, so you might wanna check with the neighbors next.

I'm perfectly fine with people making permanent alterations to their body. Its their body, not mine. I'm especially fine with the whole "unable to reproduce" aspect, since I can relate to that.

Yeah, as one who had to watch a transperson close to me struggling with the fact that she was born in the wrong body and faced extreme depression and irritability as a result, I too respectfully take offense to Regulus's statement. Honestly, you're allowed to believe whatever you want, but please do not go shoving your personal philosophies down other peoples' throats. I'm not trying to change your viewpoint, all I'm asking is that you show a little respect, for you yourself have no way of understanding what they're going through. Besides, what somebody else does with their body, and whether or not they can have kids... really, should it be any concern of yours? And that's all I have to say on the matter, and I shall say no more.

I'm not saying that people should reproduce, the point I was trying to make is that transgender surgery is a PhD above mutilation, as a bodily function was degraded through a process that is normally carried out in order to repair or improve the human body. The way I see this relation of transgender surgery is similar to how chronically-depressed people cut themselves (Harming themselves physically to attain emotional security). I'm curious as to why we draw a distinction between these two.

Because there's a difference between angsty teenagers who cut themselves for attention and people who pay to undergo surgery in order to do what they feel is right for themselves. Two completely different situations.

Picking up a knife to cut yourself takes about one second. Going through surgery? That's a few months, or even years, depending on who's doing it and what their waiting list is. That gives one plenty of time to think about what they're doing, as opposed to angsty teen, who is now crying about how he made a mess of his mom's bathroom floor.

Being that trans gender surgeries are probably not carried out by complete hacks for the most part, I'm pretty certain they'll be able to fix the plumbing, so to speak. Either way, I'm sure that a person interested in trans surgery will do far more research and talk to more experts in person that either of us care to, and will therefore be more aware of the potential risks involved. They will then be able to make the decision for themselves, far more educated than either of us. If they deem it to be a huge risk and still go through with it, then perhaps the bladin' teen analogy would have some merit.

The bottom line is that the angsty teen is doing it for attention. The tranny is doing it for peace of mind- not for attention. They want to be at peace with themselves in the end, whereas our friend Billy the Blader is a whiny little shit who is so desperate for attention he needs to put on a show to get it.

Up the alley, not across, Billy. Good, now convince 6 billion other people to do the same.

It does typically take a VERY long process over a number of years to fully convince all the doctors that you're ready for it. You can't call it "depressive mutilation" when so much time, thought and money is put to into it.

A nitpicky note: the correct term is Sex Reassignment Surgery (SRS) >.>

Oh hey, look who's bumping they're own thread a rediculous ammount of time later!
Anyway, yeah.. i've finally found who i am. I am a woman. Yes, after all these years i have finally found an identiy i am comfortable with.
This was originally going to be longer but eh, i kept being so picky with it that i just went "Screw it, textwalls were never my style."

It's good to see others coming out with the courage to, well... come out. I suppose Alice kind of opened the door to other transpeople here, but even still, just typing that little revelation, and waiting to find out what people will think of you... it's got to be intense. Because as this thread proves, not everyone thinks the same of transpeople. Nevertheless, as one involved to some degree in the LGBT scene, you and anyone else who may take the route of transition, have my support. It will be a difficult journey, but I wish you the best in your path to true self-discovery. You are who you are, and no one can tell you what you "should" be. Remember that.

I feel so bad for not responding sooner but I'm really happy for you! If there's anything you wanna talk about be it transgender stuff or just some friendly chitchat then don't be shy to message me on AIM or MSN. Camaraderie is always a good thing when you're in these situations, nyan? ^^

That reminds me.. i keep forgetting to reinstall AIM and MSN. I may take you up on that offer once i do so, afterall us transwoman have to stick together right? :3
Anyway, i unfortunately come here to complain once again.
A STUPID AND PETTY RANT WAS HERE BUT IT'S GONE NOW
Edit: But heres the big issue my depression has worsened. Like.. i having an emotional breakdown this evening level of bad. I feel like a cmplete failure, i am concerned about how i am going to get to college as soon as possible consodering how ill prepared i am. I am alsi driven to utmost despair by all the experiences iv missed because of homeschool, all the mistakes i made as a stupid kid that are coming back to bite me in the ass, how this all would've been a non issue if i wasn't taken out of public school and my parents werent so lax, how i will never be able to relate to others in that respect, How i have no friends i ccan truly depend on and how if i died today there would be a likely chance nobody would care. *Sigh* I need I repeat NEEED to get out of here but i'm unsure of how i'll survive or where i'll go. And i just feel like i'm never going to anywhere ad will just die alone and poor , and even briefly considered today that maybe i should just end it all. Since really? What's the point? I have no future. I have no passion. I will never be succesful. I'll never get a real job. I ruined my own life before it even began. These are the thought that run through my mind.
Though, seriously i envy those filled with passion and those who had a plan and ere all prepared in advance and wish i could turn back time to have actualy thought of this topic ore when i was younger instead of just doing nothing of importance in my free time like an idiot.
I also cannot do anything without being filled with sorrow now. I look at the wall and am filled with sorrow as it is the same wall i have seen all my life, I play persona 3 and am filled with sorrow at how i never attended public school after elementary and how i missed out on having the normal youth others had, I browse the internet and am filled with sorrow from lonelyness and my pitiful social life, and I look in the mirror and am also filed with sorrow at the hideous sight on display.

And i feel the only path to redemption is goig straight into the outside world regardless of what happens atleast i would be living a ife of greater purpose then i am now.
To anyone on here who wishes to be a parent someay: Please for the love of god, dont homeschool your children no matter how many stories of bullying you hear or how much crap you hear about the school system it will do them better in the long run.
To younger folk: Do not make the same mistakes as i. Think of the future at all times and get everything planned out as soon as possible. Never slack off.

This post has been edited by Shift on Oct 27 2010, 07:14 PM

Wow, um... first off, sorry that you haven't gotten ANY responses yet. I wish the forum updated people on big edits like this. With that out of the way: You need to understand that most people your age are seriously going through the same things in this regard. Life does go on even if its not ideal. I'm a little pressed for time at the moment but lemme just say that adversity is by nature something to overcome. There's nothing more satisfying than grabbing it by the balls and making it your bitch.

You just have to hang in there, Shift. Really, life can get better.

I wouldn't really bemoan any lost experiences. There's no telling what might have or might not have happened going to public school. I know how it feels like to think your life is just over when it's just getting started, but it's really just an illusion. I dunno the exact details of what yer talking about, but things can get better if you try and keep trying.

Well, for what its worth, my public schooling was a joke. I learned close to nothing that ended up being useful in my adult life. I'm only in contact with two of my school chums, having made more friends after I graduated.

My school was punctuated with frequent examples of violence, bomb threats, hit lists, fights, attempted stabbings, and at least one shooting involving two students on private property. We also had girls getting pregnant and mysteriously showing up later without their preggo bump.

I found high school to be overrated. I've learned far more on my own by reading and experiencing life for myself. I also don't need 15,000 friends to feel special or popular, and in fact I ended up systematically cutting off a few of them from my life in order to un-complicate things.

I wouldn't worry about getting long term work now. I'd worry about building up a skill set, and taking whatever wealth you can get and get it out of the US dollar. Stock up on the essentials, buy only what's useful, and start reading.

I can guarantee you that 2011 is going to be a VERY interesting year, as has been 2010, which has been setting the stage for what is coming. Spend your time wisely, don't worry about this socialite shit, because in a few years we're all going to look back at it and wonder why we wasted so much time worrying about it. It really is unimportant when faced with the grand scheme of things.

Through your preparations, you will come to realize the fullness of life, and how wonderful it is. You'll come to understand what you've been taking for granted, and you will see the rest of the world very differently. The pain fades, replaced by anticipation. Feelings of depression and uselessness become themselves useless, and you will discover just how useful you can be.

The key is to realize it beforehand, though. That's the catch. And you don't have much time. Snap out of the funk and get mobile!

I'd say your testimonial speaks for itself.

Believe me, you're not alone with the way you're feeling with the rest of the post. I honestly don't think I'll be able to get too far in life myself— I don't have a lot of motivation to back up my ambitions, and I suppose that's my own fault... but it's tough for me because I feel like I have a lot of various hobbies and no real talents.

But that's only how it is in the present, and anything can be changed in the future.

Trust me: it gets better. At this point, I honestly think motivation is little more than a state of mind, and you can change things such as the way you look at your situation to gain or lose some. If you need to learn how to support yourself, you need to find the resources, gather the information you need and apply it as time goes on. They do say you learn something every day, and even if it's not in an actual class or a lecture, the same techniques you would use for retaining information there could also be used at any other time.

So basically, figure out what you need to have or know so you can support yourself, and when you feel you're ready, get out there and see if you really are. I'd also recommend honing a couple constructive hobbies into talents— if you like writing or drawing, see if you can improve that until you're good enough that it can take you somewhere. It's likely to happen eventually; it just takes practice and patience. You have a long future ahead of you, Shift, and it's whatever you want to make it.

Ok, you've realized you've done nothing with your life. Why are you still here? Forums are a life drain, man, why do you think I only check this place once every 2-3 months?

ORLY?

Everything in moderation, man. Forums are alright, but it's no good to get sucked into anything so much that it becomes the entirety of your life. That goes for forums, but it's applicable to every aspect of life.