Loss of innocence, innocence on the island, and its loss

Alright, so basically i am doing an essay on the loss of innocence on the island, it seems to me that there are symbols of innocence all around the island... some are right, some may be right, some are just plain nutty, but what i need to know is which ideas are the right ones?
and by the way, lotfanalyzer ; what kind of qualification do you have ( university, degrees ect ect ect...)
right, some examples may help!

-the island itself ( specifically Simon's clearing, at first sight it seems peaceful, pristine, almost edenic, then after Jack and his warriors come through and set the lord of the flies on his stick, it seems like a dark depressing place, like its been robbed of its innocence)

- Simon ( Simon basically represents innocence throughout the novel, and the losing fight with the beast.)
thats pretty much what i got so far, anyone else want to fill me in?

Hi there ,

Your ideas so far are correct! Here is a bit of info I found for you:

1. Percival

“ Percival had gone off, crying . . . ”

Percival, the youngest of the littluns, may represent innocence, emotion, and children. He is known as the character who frequently expresses emotions. He uses his address, Percival Wemys Madison, The Vicarage, Harcourt ..., as an incantation that comforts and reminds him of civilization. However, by the end of the novel he cannot even remember his own name. This shows how far the children have descended into savagery — so far that they have no recollection of the civilized world. He has seen things far beyond his years- things that no child should have to deal with. Thus, we ask, how will this affect him when he gets off the island?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOTF#Major_themes_and_analysis

2. Ralph

Ralph breaks down, crying “for the end of his innocence,” author Golding writes, “the darkness of man’s heart,” and the death of “the true, wise friend called Piggy.”
....... In the distance, a cruiser waits to return the boys to civilization.

http://www.cummingsstudyguides.net/Guides2/Golding.html#Lord

3. Loss of Innocence
As the boys on the island progress from well-behaved, orderly children longing for rescue to cruel, bloodthirsty hunters who have no desire to return to civilization, they naturally lose the sense of innocence that they possessed at the beginning of the novel. The painted savages in Chapter 12 who have hunted, tortured, and killed animals and human beings are a far cry from the guileless children swimming in the lagoon in Chapter 3. But Golding does not portray this loss of innocence as something that is done to the children; rather, it results naturally from their increasing openness to the innate evil and savagery that has always existed within them. Golding implies that civilization can mitigate but never wipe out the innate evil that exists within all human beings. The forest glade in which Simon sits in Chapter 3 symbolizes this loss of innocence. At first, it is a place of natural beauty and peace, but when Simon returns later in the novel, he discovers the bloody sow’s head impaled upon a stake in the middle of the clearing. The bloody offering to the beast has disrupted the paradise that existed before—a powerful symbol of innate human evil disrupting childhood innocence.

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/flies/themes.html


Just got those quickly for you!!!! Hope they can actually help you! Let me know if you need anymore help....

Solpalapody

great, helped alot
thank you
i may post back later if i get stuck again

Its a pleasure

I studied this book for my finals (we call it matric in South Africa).... its an awesome book. Just shout if you need help

Perhaps it's too late for you - but here's my two cents ...(yet, solpalapody did hit a lot of the important points already, so I'll focus on some others).

Oh, and by the way...no degree here. Sorry about that. I joined the old LOTF site when I was about fourteen years old four years ago and ever since I have been an LOTF...maniac. I stopped going to the site about a year and a half ago, but I have read dozens upon dozens of books on LOTF, wrote many papers concerning the subject, and was an avid member and moderator of the old site for a few years. But...that all the "qualification" I have .

(I'm just giving you all this in a nut shell...trust me, all of the following ideas can be drastically expanded upon)


The Island

As you mentioned in your post, the island was definitely an important symbol of the novel. Many say it is representative of the Garden of Eden from the Catholic Bible. Whether you want to agree with that or not is your choice. Really, the island is the symbol of man's fall from innocence. As the island is introduced in the beginning of the novel, the beauty and utopia-like atmosphere of the island is dwelled upon by Golding. From the candle-bud like flowers to the coral reefs, and from the overwhelming forest to the rocks and mountain, the beauty and nature of the setting of "Lord of the Flies" is clearly included. The island is the source of life, especially for the boys, for it provides them with nourishment (crabs, pig's meat, fruit, and etcetera) and shelter. It even provides drinking water and places for the boys to bathe.

However, the island soon loses it purity with the scarring (damaged trees and shrubbery) caused by the fallen plane. After the boys are brought together they later decide to start a fire; this fire soon gets out of control, wreaking some havoc on the 'nature' aspect of the island and also possibly causing the death of the boy with the mark on his face. Throughout the novel the island is the setting of numerous deaths, whether it is the brutal slaughters of the pigs, the arrival of the dead parachuter, or the murders of Simon and Piggy. Finally, near the end of the novel, the holocaust created by the boys to smoke out Ralph destroys the majority of the island. The havoc that resulted from the actions of these boys showed how much they regressed and how far they had fallen from innocence. The island was no longer a beautiful utopia, but instead a fire-pit that almost led to the main character's (Ralph's) death. If the island as an Eden-like symbol is still a symbol you are looking for, try to recall Adam and Eve's banishment from the island. Because of their fall from innocence that portrayed original sin, they were sent away from the Garden of Eden. Their sin, similar to the sins and evils of the boys on the island, caused a separation between mankind and innocence.

Simon

As for Simon, he too can be connected with the Bible, for he is often seen as a symbol of Christ. Simon is one of the only boys who hold a lot of hope for getting back home. He tells Ralph that he'll get back to where he came from, and even though Ralph doesn't seem to wholeheartedly agree, Simon reiterates his opinion. Simon's meditation in the forest and the help he gives the littluns as he picks fruit off the trees for them can both be representative of Christ's meditations and support of the poor. Possibly more importantly, Simon's meeting with the Pig's head, or the Beast/beastie, may represent the Devil's temptation of Christ. Both the Pig's head (which is sometimes referred to as Beazulbub or Beelzebub - the devil or prince of the devil) and the Devil try to tempt the innocent. The Devil wants Christ to display his 'powers' while the Pig's head tries to convince Simon that he is not wanted by the other boys and that he can not fix the evil that the boys have succumbed to. Finally, Simon's wish to inform the boys of the true source of evil on the island and the boy's brutal killing of him, can both be paralleled to Christ's urgings for people to follow God and to the people's execution of Christ.

Yet, if you didn't want to follow the 'Christ' path for innocence, you can still focus on all of the above topics and how they portrayed Simon as a character who tried to help others and who really tried to find the truth. Yet, in the end he could possibly be called a martyr, or just a symbol of the end of innocence.

I hope this helped again. The explanations were a little elementary - but they were the best I could explain it without being too lengthy in my explanation.

Good luck on your paper!


Lotfanaylyzer

hm, like i said before i have an essay to do, ive done 2/3 paragraphs but my last is about the island, im trying to make a point about how the enviroment changes along with the natural innocence of the boys
for example when simon first reaches his clearing ( i believe its called the gale) it seems perfect, pristine, untouched
but when jack comes in with his tribe and murders the mother sow ( which could be considered jack's loss of innocence) and leaves the lord of the flies there. the gale is now defiled, unpure... lost its innocence?
thats what i think, is that right? wrong? a mixture?

*ps that was posted after that huge post, ty
and also, im having a hard time finding some good quotes to help me prove my point, any suggestions?

I personally don't think there's a wrong or right answer for that (although individual teachers may have a different opinion).

However, I do see what you're saying there and I think you're right. Simon is somewhat infatuated with his perfect little haven, especially with all the greenery. butterflies, and the colors. However, as soon as Simon sees the pig's head on a stick that the hunters had put up while he was hiding behind the mat, the scene that Simon is in changes.

The heated space has now been infiltrated by a dead pig's head and multiple flies...death has invaded life. The scene is no longer beautiful, but bloody, sticky, black, and somewhat creepy.

So yeah, I definitely think you're on the right track here. However, I don't think that Simon's hideout was called 'The Gale.' I don't even think it had a specific name. However, I could be wrong. I'll continue looking for it.

**as for your edit

I think the butterfly quote might work...hmm, let's see.

Hoped those helped a little .


~Lotfanaylyzer

oh my god!
that quote is exactly what i was trying to prove! thank you
ill just need to find it in my book...
after nearly an hour of reading over chapter eight, i cannot find that quote!
are you sure its in chapter 8?

* to avoid double posting ill just edit my second question in *
ive stumbled upon this mighty thing called the scar, its (in my mind) a big burnt/crushed streak of shrubbery along the island somewhere, this is supposedly where they "landed" on the island, now for my question, is this just an entrance or is it more?
i believe this could also be a symbol of what their presence is on the island
am i way off or onto something bigger?
(btw, you guys rock, youve helped a ton so far )

Yes, the quote is definitely in chapter 8. However, it's hard to say what page it's on because there are so many different versions of the book. I have the casebook edition and it's on page 127, but I bet you have a different version.

It's after they kill the sow (I think that's understood already though, haha)...there's a break (a space between the text) between when the hunters hang the pig's head and where Simon comes in again. Simon's next scene starts with "Simon stayed where he was, a small brown image"...go down a few paragraphs (about three) till you get to the paragraph starting with "Simon looked up, feeling the weight". It's in that paragraph. Right after that (long) paragraph is a Ralph/Piggy scene. That chapter ends on page 133 in my book...so about 6 pages from the end of the chapter (the pages are about 4.5X7.5 inches). I don't know how else to help you in that aspect.

As for the scar, again, some people think that is reading way too far into the novel, but I could agree with you. The scar is the first act of violence, of man's brutal act against nature if you want to think about it that way. I don't exactly know what you mean by "entrance"...but I guess it could be thought of as a symbol of their presence. Yet, if you think about it, that mark is going to be there even when the boys are rescued by the naval officers and brought home, when they're no longer 'present'. I think it's more of a mark of their destruction and of the island's loss of beauty. The scar is the everlasting reminder of their stay on the island, just as the large fire is.

(The question is, however, was the mark the scar made overwhelmed by the destruction of the fire? That might not actually matter though, just a thought. )


~Lotfanaylyzer

huzzah!... found it page 156, so we must have very different books.
and by entrance i meant their.. entrance, like, a mark to show that they are now there
don't know how else to put that.

"Even if he shut his eyes the sow's head still remained like an after-image" this is a quote that is located early in chapter 8 (which has now become central to my argument)
is it too far fetched to assume that the quote could represent the boys evil, and its undeniable presence? it seems plausible to me.
and with undeniable
i mean, that pretending it doesn't exist wont make it go away

I suppose that this quote can be taken as violence having a long-lasting impression on the boys. They will always be haunted by their actions and by the time they spent on the island.

No matter how hard the boys try to flee fear and no matter how hard Simon tries to rid the boys of their fear, it has made such a mark on them that they can no longer escape it...or escape themselves.

Even Simon fails to go through this situation without being tainted, for he has been face to face with the symbol of the evil on the island - with the pig's head that represents the fear, destruction, and violence of the boys.

Yes - he can no longer escape it, because it will always be in his head.