Where do you guys put powered exoskeletons on the technology scale?

Would you place them MT, early PMT, mid PMT, or late PMT? I'm thinking early PMT, given that HULC probably isn't that far away from full time development by Lockheed Martin.

That depends on what you want to do with them. Do you want something that runs on an extension cord and can only be used to help with manual labor like loading shells into a gun? That you can do today. But if you want powered armor with any decent level of independence and battery life that IMHO is mid to late PMT.

In my purposes, I'd want it to be integrated (to some extent) with a larger system, sort of like what the Future Force Warrior aims to be. I'm thinking of exoskeletons that would last a few hours, maybe a day.

It'd be used for logistics as much as anything else.

To be relied upon for direct combat confrontations would require some pretty reliable and well-trusted hardware.

Unless you wanna field them like M551 and M60A2 'Starships' with stuff that is FAR more conventional being the backbone pretty much everywhere else in the army, it's gonna be PMT.

In other words, don't expect exoes to get integrated into the combat-role anytime soon.
-And if they do, expect a hasty withdrawl from service and a massive stigma against fielding anything similar, ever.

im not sure there is anything at present logistically that requires a powered exoskeleton, that isnt already done fairly well by more conventional means--

I can dig a ditch all day long, 16 hours no problem-- this is filling sand bags, now slap a powered exoskeleton on me and Im not tired, but it cost millions to make bit more comfortable and likely with maintenance added extra guys to my ditch digging loop.

I can unload trucks all day long...see above.

now with power density issue in the MT these things arent going to be super efficient.

Okay lets say there is a 400lbs crate that needs to come off the truck-- I cant do that myself. But me and two(or even one) other guy(s) can do it, and so can a hilo, or a hand lift, for much much less cost, and far greater reliability.

Honestly give me a come-along, a good shovel, and a hilo or hand-lift and I wouldnt want the exeoskeleton-- issue me a raise instead.


So for effective efficient exoskeletons Id say we are talking PMT.

I think the first actual combat use we will see from "power armor" will be something used by SWAT like units (and special forces doing SWAT like operations). There are many reasons for this.

Maintenance is easier in a that sort of setting setting. Required active time is much lower. Saving lives is politically more important during an embassy siege that during all out war.


Early PMT I think you could see a "siege ending" exoskeleton helping the user to carry something like full body Type III or IV protection. It would probably only last 30-60 min, cost and maintenance will be high so it would still only be used sparingly by rich states.

I was asking about this not for combat, but rather for augmentation of the individual strengths of soldiers on marches, or carrying.

I'm playing with the idea of drafting up a suite of items (MT-early or mid PMT) sort of like the Future Force Warrior, and I was wondering if I should somehow try to work in powered exoskeletons for heavier work on soldiers.

It doesn't seem particularly cost efficient though.

EDIT: When I said integrate them with a larger system, I meant for the exoskeleton to compliment the ballistic armor and field gear of my troops. The system it would augment would be the soldier himself.

If you want power armor, just say "power armor". People here know what it is, and it's not like calling a rose by any other name changes anything. Nor does really "soldier as a system" etc darpatalk.

Let me give you a rundown of tech levels:
MT - like today, but different. It's sort of going in reverse a bit tech-wise, actually, as many things that in 2007 were promised to come "in 5 years" are now promised to arrive "in 10 years".
Early PMT - a special level for things that were intended as MT, and look like MT, but aren't. Or for things intended as PMT, but looking more like MT. Early PMT can mix with either MT or PMT.

PMT (or mid PMT) - just the level people in PMT play.
Late PMT - mostly an euphemism for things that go above reasonable PMT, but don't happen in space.
Power armors are PMT, Deus Ex style mechs are PMT, human augmentation is PMT, nanoeverything is PMT. Mechwarrior style mechs may be late PMT, mecha may be late PMT, though both are properly FT or FanT.

And it's a good thing I don't want power armor.

I was asking about its uses in logistics. It would be designed to compliment field gear simply to make work easier on the soldiers. I am not, was I ever, talking about exoskeletons as combat systems.

And the idea of a solder as a system is a very viable idea; I'm toying with the idea of designing something IC like the French FELIN system. That's a soldier acting as a system.

Logistics troops don't wear body armor. And if they do, not the kind that would be used with an exoskeleton.
Currently the overhead of exoskeleton itself is greater than potential gain. There are forklifts and simpler mechanical devices for heavy lifting.

"Soldier as a system" is not an idea, it's just a smartass way to say nothing in particular while very subtly implying that you understand something others don't.

Logistics troops might wear body armor while working in a dangerous environment; granted, I've already conceded that it's just impractical. I didn't particularly expect it too, no matter how much I wanted it too. Nonetheless, it's just a fair question worth asking; where does noncombat exoskeletons like the Human Universal Load Carrier come into play?

Or it could mean, just here me out here, that the soldier has something like a helmet with an OLED display, a USB 2.0 hub, and increased communications abilities. That's the sort of thing I like, and the idea of designing one made me remember the HULC and things like it. Cool (and extremely) expensive stuff which I'm not sure where it fits on the technology readiness scale.

That's what I mean when I say "soldier as a system." It's a little more concise than "soldier running around with a little computer attached to his beltloop."

Answered.

What V is trying to say is dont use buzzwords-- and that phrase qualifies as a buzz word.

Soldiers already are a system. they are the base system of essentially every other weapons and logistic system.

That being said.

You seem to get the idea that in modern tech there isnt really a useful area for exeskeleton augmentation.

As well, long marches were solved with introduction of wheeled vehicles--first wagons for supplies, then motor vehicles, now armored transports.


soldiers dont need(or again likely want) a big thing on them helping them do simple tasks.

obviously we leap forward into the possible future and you may certainly have efficient ergonomic mechanical augmentation for these tasks.

Human Universal Load carrier is engineering fap, its not deployed because its presently a useless idea. it wont be useful for quite some time, and honestly this is a technology that you will likely see first in the civilian world working before the military. Lockmart just has the budget to leap on new tech.

The HULC is still(as it has been for quite some time) struggling with power issues.
Ill be happy to eat my words if in 5 years its deployed, it wont be(statement made april 2012, feel free to call me on it in 2017).

Exoskeletons are in fact useful.

But only in MT Space applications where supporting life is as expensive as machines.

Here on earth, a meal requires a few dollars of time and energy to get to your plate, and the air is free.

Well, while a full exoskeleton (something like this, perhaps) exists today and is fine for heavy lifting, it's cumbersome, needs a power connection and (look at her arms) isn't that good for your personal mobility.

Meanwhile, load-bearing 'exoskeletons' for soldiers also exist:

thats the HULC, we've covered it.