My first post. Yes, thank you for welcoming me and wishing I enjoy my stay etc etc. Lets get through all that. Suggestions very much welcome, and if someone can think of a name for the thing that would be great. Ok here I go *deep breath*



I drew this thing myself on googlesketch in a morning. Probably inspired by a dream or something. Please excuse my lack of skill, detail and trigger. I have no idea what kind of stats a thing like this would have, so I just make something up and hope it sounds sensible:

Type: Service Rifle
Place of Origin: Estusia
Weight: 4.3kg
Length: 610mm
Barrel Length: 402mm
Cartridge: 9.02x71mm "Caseless"
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt
Rate of Fire: Semiautomatic
Muzzle Velocity: 320m/s
Effective range: 1100m
Feed system: Detachable double-stack 20 round box

I intend this to be used in semi-arid and arid enviroments, for long-range, ambush and general shooting. The round is "Caseless" in the sense that the casing is part of the bullet, and exits the barrel with the bullet. The extremely high ballistic coefficient of the round (the design perfected over centuries) and subsonic velocity means a silent firing and a projectile arc that is so flat it allows accurate targeting of stationary targets at more than 1000m.

The foregrip and thickly padded shock-absorbing stock increase the degree of control the shooter has over the rifle, allowing rapid, accurate fire and the quick switching of targets. It fires in semi only. Automatic? Whats that?

In addition, there are picatinny rails on the top and bottom of the barrel shroud and the whole thing is internally silenced. Issued with a reflex sight, x2, x4, x6,x8 zoom levels. Zoom level adjusted by slider, and theres a "panic button" that brings it instantly back to lowest level of zoom. Sight has night vision, cuts glare, etc. All that good stuff.

Theres variants, but i cant be bothered to draw them: a carbine (~400mm barrel, ~500mm overall length) version, and intermediate-caliber versions for both carbine and rife for them wussies who cant take the recoil. Auto is an option with the intermediate calibers.

EDIT: Ender's, Andorianus\Dystopianus' and CrookFur's suggestions

right off the bat, you don't appear to have room for the action to recoil behind the box magazine.
second of all, a 50 round mag for a 9 mm rifle cartridge? especially with a 70mm length? thats a tad big. I would also add a much thicker barrel (diameter) to account for the baffles it would take to internally silence your weapon. About your cartridge, a faster bullet has a flatter trajectory. a slow bullet has to arc to it's target. if you want a flatter shooter, get a faster bullet. As far a night vision is concerned,
http://www.binocularsmart.com/scopes/nv-mt...illuminator.jpg

basically, you need to leave quite the room for a true night sight. I like the idea of digital zoom, but it might be too shaky on a service rifle. I would only use digital zoom as a last resort in a steady, sniping position.

Other then these little errors, you are looking at a solid rifle design. As a summery, I would;

1.make a smaller, faster, bullet
2.reduce magazine capacity
3.move magazine forward to allow room for the bolt to travel
4.bigger (diameter) barrel with internal baffles for silencing/suppressing
5.remove muzzle break (redundancy)
6.make a bigger sight if you really want all those features packed into one scope
7.figure a MT way around digital zoom, especially for a service rifle

Good Luck!

Ender, I had no idea getting a reply could be like this. Im like, high. lol. I could get to like this.

First off - action. What if I put some of the action in the buttpad? Theres a good 2 inches of styrofoam shit there. Or perhaps if I used some clever action that lets me put it above the feed or next to it or something? Help, anyone?

Bullet size is for RP purposes - the thing originated from hunting rifles. Should have put that in there.
OK, the 50 round mag was me being overkill. Gonna reduce that.
Barrel - thanks for that.
Bullet - Okee, technobable didnt work. Taking that off.
Sight - do reflex or holo sights have variable zoom? I hope so. Screw the more space part: i like how it looks. Maybe i can stuff something under the sight.

Working on improvements. Should take a day or so, if I have time. Thanks alot.

EDIT: PS Ender, huge round, corrospondingly huge recoil, no muzzle, broken ligaments. And i wanted flash suppression.
EDIT: PSS whoops, took me 30 minutes instead of a day. Barrel thick enough?

Welco... Oh, wait, I should skip that part. Sorry!

As far as I understand it, it's a BR meant for ambushes. That sounds like a great idea. In such a role, a highly-accurate weapon would be desired so that the first shot counts.

You can't put the action in the buttplate, because the buttplate is meant to reduce the recoil slightly by "recoiling" a bit. When there's a rigid material in the buttplate, this whole recoiling part doesn't work anymore.

Also, I suggest moving the front grip as far forward as possible. Don't move it too far from the shooter, or it won't be comfortable anymore.

Finally, maybe you can put a barrel shroud around the barrel. That way it won't bend and the user can't accidentally move it.

Maybe for a name, how about SBR? Sniper's Battle Rifle? Or ABR, Ambush Battle Rifle?

Effective range seems a bit high, but it will do.

lol.

Lack of barrel shroud mainly for aesthetic purposes. If im gonna have a service rifle, its going to look cool. Not giving that up. Yes i am stubborn and picky.

Movin grip and mag forward, aye. A good 2 inches. Pity I cant figure out how to shorten the picanitty rail

Effective range is high because basically im using a Lapua on steroids. This is how we roll. Shoot all your heads off from a kilometer away before you know whats happening.

As a very rough rule msot mechanisms will need twice the "width" of your magazine behind it to acount for the bolt travel etc.

On moving to the stats, you are proabably going to want to add about 50-100mm to your overall length to accoutn for the action and your muzzle break.

3.9kg is likely in the cloud cukoo land as far as weapon weight goes. To get 1020m/s with what will be a very heavy projectile out of a mere 400mm of barrel is going to require some quite spectacular chamber pressures and a LOT of recoil. Recoil that is going to be getting on for .50cal BMG levels.


Your round design is causing a lot of your porblems, using a projectile extension as the propellant case isn't insane but it will tend to work best with fairly low pressure/velocity rounds when you start upping your velocity you get more pressure which means a strong case and thus heavier porjectile so to main tain velocity you need more energy and thus pressure and thus again a heavier projectile. In short its a viceous cycle with you ending up with a 500grain+ projectile weight (i.e. appraoching .50cal territory).


Trying to internall silence such a round is pretty much at the point of being a definition of madness essepcailly when the roudn is still doing 1020m/s at the muzzle. if you have a intergal supressor/silencer then yes a muzzle brake is redundant as the supressor uses the same mechanism of the brake (slowing down and redirecting the gasses).


In Short you really need to re think this.

A discrete/silenced long rnage rifle is a nice project but one that requires quite a bit of thought. High muzzle velocities are the enemy of discrete rifles. Instead rounds for these kind of weapons rely on heavy and extremeley low drag bullets which you are almost acheiving, try having a look at the various Whisper and JDJ rounds. The big Whisper rounds are reportedly capable of being accurate at over a mile when fired at sub sonic velocities.

In fact your extend projectile roudn would be perfect for this kind of thing as you cna get the nice weight without increasing the calibre too much and you could possibly look a little bit of basebleed effect.

Magic bolt. For aesthetic purposes.

You hath enlightened me - screw the muzzle break. Soz Ender for not realising this sooner

Weight adjusted.

You reminded me of Ballistic Coefficiency - I thought id never forget. Didnt think subsonic rounds can go that far.

muzzle velocity is listed a 320 m/s, extremely low.

Also, ignore these conservative pepl telling to move the mag forward. Move it to the back. be unholy.


http://img248.imageshack.us/i/tkb022vg7.jpg

There. now have a super compact battle rifle with the mag right at the back of the gun :D

Just use an action similar to the P-90 (I think). I believe there was an argument about this on "Your Military's Main weapon" a couple of days ago.

I believe it basically shoves the round into the chamber...

Contrary to what you may hear, don't go TKB-022.
Its reliability and faults are largely unknown, and it was powered by the glorious will of the soviet people and magic rather than a bolt, as such.

You know it can get tiring to keep hearing:

critic one::Your magazine is a bit too close to the end of the receiver

creator: Ok np i'll change

Critic two: no instead of making the simple change totally rearrnage the internal workings to use a somewhat obtuse and complicated mechanism.

anyway my grumps are my grumps and i shan't bother people with them (much) more.

B_S: the muzzle velocity is because he is now going for a longe range subsonic round of course such a round willr equire certain parts of the write up being ammended (i.e. such rounds won't have a flat trajectory but will have decent accuracy and possibly range.


Estusia: I'm not sure if a roughly .30 cal calibre will do the job, 9mm certainly would. You seem to be heading more or elss in the right direction but I would urge you do have a good look at the wonderful world of discrete rifles before letting me accidentially rail road you ina direction you don't want to go.

So, he'll be aiming this like a trajectory? maybe he should have a sniper app to calculate it for the lolz

If you are shooting at 1000m+ you probably will be using some sort of ballsitic calcualtor regardless of the round, even if it is just a notepad with range tables or a scope with range gradients.

Sahara, high BC round, subsonic for stealth.

Ekraysia, magic will do.

General question: Is quasimagic RP allowed?

Crook: Its not tiring yet, im actually so exited about actually having replies, lol. So noob. And the ballistic calculator, thats cool, my nation is one of born snipers - its in the genes (lol no maybe they memorise charts in trainin or somethin). About the round, metinks you're right, im changing the caliber and mag size again

It can't be in their genes because genetics don't work that way.

However, you could have something similar to what was in the USSR prior to WW2 where there was a large and prevalent culture of sharpshooting and hunting. That sort of environment tends to breed snipers like no tomorrow.

The gene part was a halfjoke. You got what I had in my mind, almost exactly, without even having seen my factbook which is not yet completed!

internet telepathy *shivers*

Sadly magic is not powerful enough to make the action cycle reliably.
Much like the AR-15.

The TBK-022 meme still hasn't died?

I was under the impression that nobody had a clue how it worked and even that picture BS posted was just guesswork, seeing as the prototype is very secretive.

In some roleplays it is...

the kind of roleplay that involves guys like Harry Potter and Frodo Baggins. Guys who really own assault rifles thanks to their almighty magig fireballs... <_<

Well thanks, you made me feel fuzzy inside.


I looks like you got the action thing almost taken care of. personally I would move the whole system forward but you like your aesthetics so I'll let you figure that out



generally no. reflex or holo sights are usually 1 to 1.5x zoom. If you wanted, you could have a separate flip out attachment for magnification purposes. http://img192.imageshack.us/i/dscn2670s.jpg/sr=1
that should help



Needless to say, I was right. annnnnnd.... http://www.blackweaponsarmory.com/magento/.../file_13_13.jpg
That is the suppressed barrel of a meager .22, which converts to about 5.5 millimeters. I would think about a bull barrel when designing it.

P.S. how exactly do you pronounce the name? foo peaking? phoo kerng? hoo kerng?

I was thinking religious fanatasism, taking signs and guidance from the weather or dirt patterns or stuf like that

Ender: Try Phoo Pkerng. There is no simpler way to pronounce it.

Might I also suggest praying to god before each shot and having your shots magically fallow their targets via act of god?

Offerings to Death before battles yes, praying to the Fates before every shot yes, acting as a vescicle of the Gods yes,

that last bit, if only. If only.