InvisionFree - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums with no limits on posts or members.

Learn More · Register for Free
Welcome to Nsdraftroom. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Name:   Password:


Pages: (2) [1] 2  ( Go to first unread post )

 Short Range Cruise Missile
Rich and Corporations
Posted: Jun 4 2012, 07:34 AM


84% Armaments Designer


Group: Members
Posts: 1,698
Member No.: 938
Joined: 19-July 10



Cost: roughly $135k
Manufacturer: Novoburg Aeronautics Arsenal
Weight: 1.9 tonnes
Length: 10.78 m
Wingspan: 4.74 m
Height: 1.78 m
Engine: 1x pulse detonation engine
Operational Range: 710 to 550 km
Speed: 650 to 780 km/h
Guidance system: GPS, gyrocompass and inertia based autopilot, with low power, low resolution radar calculating ground distance and weather, a variant exists that uses anti-radiation homing


The small wings create a very high stall speed, making it impossible for the missile to take off under it's own power. It must be catapult launched to give the missile the needed boost to take off. The engine is mounted on the tail wing.

The missile either contains a one tonne warhead of explosives, a submunitions bomb containing mines or propaganda leaflets, an AEW module, or an electronic warfare module. The missile is also nuclear capable.

The missile has a CEP75 rating of 40 meters and can be programmed to fly through a ten meter window along a predesignated route. If the missile's radar system is deactivated, the CEP75 rating increases to 55 to 95 meters depending on flight path and distance to target. Inertia-based targeting alone would increase the CEP75 rating to 450 meters.

The one tonne warhead of amatol is capable of causing significant blast damage to objects within a 120 meter radius and can create roughly a 30 meter wide crater.

The electronic warfare modules can be used towards either broadcasting propaganda, or radar jamming. As technology advances, ships and land based over the horizon radar platforms will possess ever greater accuracy and range, it becomes vitally important to disrupt enemy communications. The purpose of equipping a short range cruise missile with the electronic warfare module is to disrupt enemy radar in zones of enemy air superiority, potentially allowing for friendly air missions to proceed with a greater degree of surprise.

The AEW module serves a similiar, but obvious purpose.

While preparing for victory is pleasant, realistic preparations for defeat must be factored.

This post has been edited by Rich and Corporations on Jun 6 2012, 05:45 PM


--------------------
<@Number_Muncher>it can only be sigged if it's a lie. No true statement has ever been sigged[/QUOTE]

Praise for RnC
QUOTE (Danton @ Jul 19 2012, 02:51 AM)
RandC is right

QUOTE (Praetonia @ Aug 31 2012, 10:27 PM)
Take that, r&c.

QUOTE (no endorse)
Scratch that, this thread went /DOWNHILL/ after RnC stop posting in it


Now 100% efficient at fighting mod tyranny.
Top
Rich and Corporations
Posted: Jun 4 2012, 07:03 PM


84% Armaments Designer


Group: Members
Posts: 1,698
Member No.: 938
Joined: 19-July 10



Made a few additions after I learned how cheap radar modules can be.

Considering most attack missiles cost more then this, I was expecting a few complements. Or requests for purchase.


--------------------
<@Number_Muncher>it can only be sigged if it's a lie. No true statement has ever been sigged[/QUOTE]

Praise for RnC
QUOTE (Danton @ Jul 19 2012, 02:51 AM)
RandC is right

QUOTE (Praetonia @ Aug 31 2012, 10:27 PM)
Take that, r&c.

QUOTE (no endorse)
Scratch that, this thread went /DOWNHILL/ after RnC stop posting in it


Now 100% efficient at fighting mod tyranny.
Top
Izistan
Posted: Jun 4 2012, 07:48 PM


You have way too much time on your hands ...


Group: Members
Posts: 5,766
Member No.: 30
Joined: 11-April 07



Given the short range, wouldn't a turbojet work better? Cheaper, etc etc...

edit: actually on that note...why not a turboprop or propfan for a low speed/low altitude missile?


--------------------
<+Praetonia> izi lives in a bizarre dystopian parallel canada
<+Praetonia> beset on all sides by triads, hell's angels and corrupt RCMP
<+Praetonia> not to mention hordes of nazis
QUOTE
@RatedRsupeRme actually its fosforus technology fosforus when it melts through anything like shooting through paper its used in at4hs ammo now and it basically has a delayed ignition an is like a volcano erupting and spewing melting white hot fosforus tottaly melting anyone in its way so ur really behind on military tech

<+medicus> izistan
<+medicus> i heard
<+medicus> you'd never hear me say this
<+medicus> but thank god for israel and the united states
Top
Rich and Corporations
Posted: Jun 4 2012, 08:33 PM


84% Armaments Designer


Group: Members
Posts: 1,698
Member No.: 938
Joined: 19-July 10



Not certain how cheaper that this is, but while looking at alternative engines, the pulse detonation engine looks nice. I'm not sure how all of this will effect range though.

It's very difficult to figure out cost for an engine. The V-1 Flying Bomb would cost roughly $50k dollars to produce today, and I'm guessing that includes explosives.

Although my cost is pretty much "less then half the price of the enemy's anti-air missiles."


--------------------
<@Number_Muncher>it can only be sigged if it's a lie. No true statement has ever been sigged[/QUOTE]

Praise for RnC
QUOTE (Danton @ Jul 19 2012, 02:51 AM)
RandC is right

QUOTE (Praetonia @ Aug 31 2012, 10:27 PM)
Take that, r&c.

QUOTE (no endorse)
Scratch that, this thread went /DOWNHILL/ after RnC stop posting in it


Now 100% efficient at fighting mod tyranny.
Top
Hurtful Thoughts
Posted: Jun 5 2012, 03:06 AM


100% Armaments Designer, now what?


Group: Members
Posts: 6,326
Member No.: 29
Joined: 11-April 07



Actually, for this sort of range, a ducted rocket & ramjet starts looking appropriate.

Alternately, instead of rocket-boost, recoilless-gun/catapult.

Otherwise, you;ve got a bomb that'll take 1 hour to deliver and is susceptable to an AKM-barrage.

1 hour AWACS AEW seems useless, since it doesn't have procesing-power to interpret the data.


--------------------
Top
Rich and Corporations
Posted: Jun 5 2012, 04:46 AM


84% Armaments Designer


Group: Members
Posts: 1,698
Member No.: 938
Joined: 19-July 10



QUOTE (Hurtful Thoughts @ Jun 5 2012, 03:06 AM)
Actually, for this sort of range, a ducted rocket & ramjet starts looking appropriate.

Alternately, instead of rocket-boost, recoilless-gun/catapult.

Otherwise, you;ve got a bomb that'll take 1 hour to deliver and is susceptable to an AKM-barrage.

1 hour AWACS AEW seems useless, since it doesn't have procesing-power to interpret the data.

I prefer a slow bomb, it's not much slower then a Tomahawk, and I could fire about five times as many SRCMs as a Tomahawk for much less cost.

Catapult seems like a good idea.

It will relay the data. Besides, it depends on the circumstance on how useful it could be.


--------------------
<@Number_Muncher>it can only be sigged if it's a lie. No true statement has ever been sigged[/QUOTE]

Praise for RnC
QUOTE (Danton @ Jul 19 2012, 02:51 AM)
RandC is right

QUOTE (Praetonia @ Aug 31 2012, 10:27 PM)
Take that, r&c.

QUOTE (no endorse)
Scratch that, this thread went /DOWNHILL/ after RnC stop posting in it


Now 100% efficient at fighting mod tyranny.
Top
no endorse
Posted: Jun 5 2012, 11:31 PM


You have way too much time on your hands ...


Group: Moderators
Posts: 4,164
Member No.: 22
Joined: 11-April 07



Rockets and rocket boosted ramjets are the way to go.


PDEs and Pulsejets are fiddley.


--------------------
user posted image
user posted image
QUOTE (IRC)
[22:39]Spizania: A chain is a unit of length; it measures 66 feet or 22 yards or 4 rods or 100 links[1] (20.1168m). <<< This is why Britian ruled the world
[22:39]Spizania: we created a system of measurements noone else could understand
Top
Praetonia
Posted: Jun 6 2012, 01:53 AM


Aristobrat


Group: Members
Posts: 5,203
Member No.: 59
Joined: 21-April 07



I think this is a troll despite that r&c is dumb enough to do it for srs. But for the other ppl reading:

There's no reason this should be cheaper. It weighs more than a tomahawk, and has the same time of engine. You've made an enlarged tomahawk and replaced some of the jet fuel with more explosives, essentially. Apparently you think jet fuel is much more expensive. You've then added a radar. Ok I'll grant it's more like the actual TERCOM system, and maybe a bit worse, so you would save a few % there except you added home on jam.

Somehow this larger, in some ways more capable tomahawk comes out at 1/10th the price.



Bonus points for silliness: tomahawks don't take off using their jet engine like a plane, they have a solid fuel first stage that boosts them to the required speed.


--------------------
user posted image

<dtn> hopefully plae won't follow me into my dreams
Top
Danton
Posted: Jun 6 2012, 04:41 AM


Unregistered









Just use a lawnmower engine.

user posted image
Top
Rich and Corporations
Posted: Jun 6 2012, 05:28 AM


84% Armaments Designer


Group: Members
Posts: 1,698
Member No.: 938
Joined: 19-July 10



QUOTE
Just use a lawnmower engine.
I thought modern aircraft use snowmobile engines.

QUOTE
I think this is a troll despite that r&c is dumb enough to do it for srs. But for the other ppl reading:

There's no reason this should be cheaper. It weighs more than a tomahawk, and has the same time of engine. You've made an enlarged tomahawk and replaced some of the jet fuel with more explosives, essentially. Apparently you think jet fuel is much more expensive. You've then added a radar. Ok I'll grant it's more like the actual TERCOM system, and maybe a bit worse, so you would save a few % there except you added home on jam.

Somehow this larger, in some ways more capable tomahawk comes out at 1/10th the price.



Bonus points for silliness: tomahawks don't take off using their jet engine like a plane, they have a solid fuel first stage that boosts them to the required speed.

Fairly certain the bulk of the cost for missiles are the electronics.

Home on radar is a separate feature and is part of a specific warhead.

The price does not include explosives.

The x-jet engine has less moving parts and I believe is cheaper, better suited as a throw-away.

Bonus points for history: V-1 flying bomb, modernized
Fuel range increased assuming 25% fuel efficiency increase every 25 years, making for 60% fuel consumption reduction.


--------------------
<@Number_Muncher>it can only be sigged if it's a lie. No true statement has ever been sigged[/QUOTE]

Praise for RnC
QUOTE (Danton @ Jul 19 2012, 02:51 AM)
RandC is right

QUOTE (Praetonia @ Aug 31 2012, 10:27 PM)
Take that, r&c.

QUOTE (no endorse)
Scratch that, this thread went /DOWNHILL/ after RnC stop posting in it


Now 100% efficient at fighting mod tyranny.
Top
no endorse
Posted: Jun 6 2012, 05:57 AM


You have way too much time on your hands ...


Group: Moderators
Posts: 4,164
Member No.: 22
Joined: 11-April 07



QUOTE
I thought modern aircraft use snowmobile engines.

wat

QUOTE
Fairly certain the bulk of the cost for missiles are the electronics.

Where are you saving money?

QUOTE
Home on radar is a separate feature and is part of a specific warhead.

There's slightly more to it than this, it has to be designed in deliberately.

QUOTE
The x-jet engine has less moving parts and I believe is cheaper, better suited as a throw-away.

Don't waste your time on a PDE/Pulsejet.

QUOTE
Fuel range increased assuming 25% fuel efficiency increase every 25 years, making for 60% fuel consumption reduction.

....


--------------------
user posted image
user posted image
QUOTE (IRC)
[22:39]Spizania: A chain is a unit of length; it measures 66 feet or 22 yards or 4 rods or 100 links[1] (20.1168m). <<< This is why Britian ruled the world
[22:39]Spizania: we created a system of measurements noone else could understand
Top
Rich and Corporations
Posted: Jun 6 2012, 06:41 AM


84% Armaments Designer


Group: Members
Posts: 1,698
Member No.: 938
Joined: 19-July 10



QUOTE
Where are you saving money?

Saving money with non-precision electronics. Can't hit the broadside of a barn, but it can still blow one up. This pretty much uses civilian aircraft radar, . Model airplane servo controllers are used, although I'll admit no current model travels faster then 550 km/h.

QUOTE
There's slightly more to it than this, it has to be designed in deliberately.
I see. Removed. Will add a "home in radar variant though"



--------------------
<@Number_Muncher>it can only be sigged if it's a lie. No true statement has ever been sigged[/QUOTE]

Praise for RnC
QUOTE (Danton @ Jul 19 2012, 02:51 AM)
RandC is right

QUOTE (Praetonia @ Aug 31 2012, 10:27 PM)
Take that, r&c.

QUOTE (no endorse)
Scratch that, this thread went /DOWNHILL/ after RnC stop posting in it


Now 100% efficient at fighting mod tyranny.
Top
Kyiv
Posted: Jun 6 2012, 06:50 AM


My tank is umbrella!


Group: Members
Posts: 2,903
Member No.: 401
Joined: 3-June 08





--------------------
QUOTE
i think it is you that is the fool.My education was brought with money, not from wikipedia!


QUOTE (Rich and Corporations @ Apr 16 2012, 10:06 PM)
Oh my god, everyone is either wrong or fucking stupid.
Top
Rich and Corporations
Posted: Jun 6 2012, 08:11 AM


84% Armaments Designer


Group: Members
Posts: 1,698
Member No.: 938
Joined: 19-July 10



Interesting. First piece of information I've heard about that, especially considering:
QUOTE
The Affordable Weapon program is still funded as of late 2007, but detailed information about the state of development and flight testing has not been published.

So. No information on CEP50 or any other statistics? The affordable weapon program uses state of the art off the shelf electronics... which doesn't mean much for cost cutting.

You might not be aware of this, but off-the-shelf state-of-the-art electronics can be used to land planes with an accuracy of less then one meter.


--------------------
<@Number_Muncher>it can only be sigged if it's a lie. No true statement has ever been sigged[/QUOTE]

Praise for RnC
QUOTE (Danton @ Jul 19 2012, 02:51 AM)
RandC is right

QUOTE (Praetonia @ Aug 31 2012, 10:27 PM)
Take that, r&c.

QUOTE (no endorse)
Scratch that, this thread went /DOWNHILL/ after RnC stop posting in it


Now 100% efficient at fighting mod tyranny.
Top
Praetonia
Posted: Jun 6 2012, 01:05 PM


Aristobrat


Group: Members
Posts: 5,203
Member No.: 59
Joined: 21-April 07



QUOTE (Rich and Corporations @ Jun 6 2012, 04:28 AM)
Fairly certain the bulk of the cost for missiles are the electronics.

Home on radar is a separate feature and is part of a specific warhead.

The price does not include explosives.

The x-jet engine has less moving parts and I believe is cheaper, better suited as a throw-away.

Bonus points for history: V-1 flying bomb, modernized
Fuel range increased assuming 25% fuel efficiency increase every 25 years, making for 60% fuel consumption reduction.

V1 had "point it towards London" guidance and a crappy 1st gen jet engine giving it 1/3 the range (and how do you know what a V1 would cost today anyway?).

You have a turbofan*, GPS-INS and a terrain mapping radar just like the regular tomahawk. The fuel efficiency improvements aren't free, they come from having a turbofan rather than a pulsejet.

QUOTE (Kyiv)
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/a...ble-weapon.html

Twice the alleged price of this.


"The Affordable Weapon has a range of more than 1560 km (840 nm), and payload options include several types of warhead and surveillance packages with a weight of up to 90 kg (200 lb). "

This weapon would seem to deliver 1/10th the payload of R&C's for 1/2 the price.




*I'm taking this is what you mean by x jet - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_X-Jet It would seem to just be a turbofan, and if simpler and cheaper only because it was intended for much lower performance than you're claiming here.


--------------------
user posted image

<dtn> hopefully plae won't follow me into my dreams
Top
0 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
« Next Oldest | Munitions | Next Newest »
DealsFor.me - The best sales, coupons, and discounts for you

Topic OptionsPages: (2) [1] 2 



Hosted for free by InvisionFree* (Terms of Use: Updated 2/10/2010) | Powered by Invision Power Board v1.3 Final © 2003 IPS, Inc.
Page creation time: 0.0899 seconds | Archive