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| Neblewerfer |
Posted: Aug 9 2011, 06:47 PM
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![]() 4% Armaments Designer Group: Members Posts: 86 Member No.: 1,020 Joined: 22-November 10 |
Recently I have been working on a series of anti-tank missiles for use by infantry, AFVs, and light helicopters. I did a lot of reading that highlighted the weaknesses of modern ATGMs. It seems that advances in Active Protection Systems and jamming devices have significantly reduced the possibility of a one-shot kill with a ATGM. This, in combination with a new generation of counter ATGM technologies that can detect the lasers and optical reflections of launch command units, makes it even more significant if a missile cant achieve a direct hit with the first shot.
I came across Allanea's translation of the report on Russian RFEMP rounds (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=10143) and I was intrigued as to the possibility of mounting a precursor RFEMP charge with a HEAT warhead. The RFEMP would target the operating frequency of the sensors, particularly the G-band, Doppler, or millimeter-wave radars that provide targeting information to APS hard-kill launchers. This "precursor" would detonate when the missile is about 20-30 meters from target, after which the main HEAT charge would continue to the target while the APS system was still recovering from the frequency spike. Ideally the weapon would be able to achieve a higher percentage of direct hits, and effectively negate close in APS systems. In order to make this work I had a wire-guided SACLOS missile of large to medium size in mind. This way there would be a minimum effect on the missile's own electronics, if designed correctly, since it wont use MMW radar or laser detectors for guidance. Even then, it would be so close to the target when the precursor RFEMP charge detonates, I dont think it would really matter if an impact fuse triggered detonation. For greater effect a tandem HEAT warhead could be added on smaller missiles to counter ERA as well. Essentially 2 questions. 1. Would this work? 2. Are the radars a good target for the RFEMP, or is there another critical component that is used in all types of APS that would be just as vulnerable. Ideally there would be a component that responds to a frequency spike that is used in all types of APS, regardless of guidance method. Otherwise, rounds will have to be specially made to deal with a particular APS system depending on which radar it uses. -------------------- |
| Kyiv |
Posted: Aug 9 2011, 07:01 PM
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![]() My tank is umbrella! Group: Members Posts: 2,902 Member No.: 401 Joined: 3-June 08 |
The main problem I see is how does the missile survive the precursor going off?
Making it tough enough isn't the only the problem, the blast could easily destabilize the missile and cause it to tumble, swerve and generally go places it shouldn't. --------------------
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| Neblewerfer |
Posted: Aug 9 2011, 07:32 PM
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![]() 4% Armaments Designer Group: Members Posts: 86 Member No.: 1,020 Joined: 22-November 10 |
Good point. Initial ideas would be some kind of releasable sub-munition or precursor round that detonates separately from the main projectile. If that becomes the method of implementation it will probably be akin to the RPG-30, with the precursor round containing the RFEMP
I admit I need to do more reading on Radio Frequency weapons. I am trying to find more information, but it doesn't seem to be a common topic. I have been looking for about an hour and I have only managed to get one research paper on explosive initiated radio frequency weapons, other than Alleana's translated article. Its rather frustrating since I can usually find what I'm looking for in a matter of minutes. Needless to say the round will be complicated and expensive. I figured it would be cheaper in lives and currency than relying on mass projectile spam. -------------------- |
| Kyiv |
Posted: Aug 9 2011, 07:58 PM
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![]() My tank is umbrella! Group: Members Posts: 2,902 Member No.: 401 Joined: 3-June 08 |
Mhhh you should be aware the U.S. Army has developed and fielded a series of small radar jammers than can be retrofitted to missiles and shells called CAPS.
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| Lamoni |
Posted: Aug 9 2011, 11:19 PM
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![]() Most Consistent Desginer (2012) Group: Admin Posts: 3,678 Member No.: 336 Joined: 25-April 08 |
Would you happen to have any sources for that, Kyiv? I'd be most interested in seeing those. --------------------
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| Neblewerfer |
Posted: Aug 10 2011, 12:18 AM
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![]() 4% Armaments Designer Group: Members Posts: 86 Member No.: 1,020 Joined: 22-November 10 |
Yea, I second that. I got even less useful results trying to find info on CAPS than RFEMPs. I think I'm going to keep looking into this. I think that an RFEMP could be more effective than a jammer. Especially since the overload from an RFEMP would cause problems even after the RFEMP detonated, while a jammer will be destroyed in the explosion. In the meantime I am going to learn about radar, maybe I can find a specific component to target.
Note to self: look into an APS designed to track jamming signals emitted from missiles or CLUs. -------------------- |
| Kyiv |
Posted: Aug 10 2011, 01:34 AM
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![]() My tank is umbrella! Group: Members Posts: 2,902 Member No.: 401 Joined: 3-June 08 |
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| Neblewerfer |
Posted: Aug 10 2011, 02:15 AM
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![]() 4% Armaments Designer Group: Members Posts: 86 Member No.: 1,020 Joined: 22-November 10 |
Nice, Will definitely add a form of CAPS jamming to my Anti-Ship missile lines. Perhaps I will make use of that on aircraft and vehicle mounted missile platforms that can quickly relocate.
The biggest problem I'm having is determining how much explosive force a RFEMP charge would produce during detonation. Are we talking about a firecracker, a hand grenade, or bigger? Initial concept is a 90mm RFEMP charge that is roughly .28m long. It would be attached to the rear of an ATGM, similar to the main charge placement on the SPIKE ATGM (aft of the fight motor). Warhead would either be ejected prior to detonation, or have a brace that could channel the detonation as thrust. (most likely the prior) -------------------- |
| Neblewerfer |
Posted: Aug 10 2011, 04:13 AM
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![]() 4% Armaments Designer Group: Members Posts: 86 Member No.: 1,020 Joined: 22-November 10 |
http://books.google.com/books?id=4eMDAAAAM...epage&q&f=false
I'm guessing the article on pg. 94 is close to the mechanism in the RFEMP warheads pictured in Alleana's translated report? Another name that I have found for such devices is Explosive Powered Magnetic Flux Generator. It seems to generate more results than radio frequency EMP based queries. Edit: Also, apologies for not posting this in the engineering concept critique thread. I thought I had clicked on it this morning, but I had so may tabs open I got them mixed up. -------------------- |
| Kyiv |
Posted: Aug 10 2011, 05:04 AM
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![]() My tank is umbrella! Group: Members Posts: 2,902 Member No.: 401 Joined: 3-June 08 |
Just use the CAPS.
It's easy and it works. --------------------
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| Neblewerfer |
Posted: Aug 10 2011, 05:33 AM
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![]() 4% Armaments Designer Group: Members Posts: 86 Member No.: 1,020 Joined: 22-November 10 |
I'll shelf it for now, but I'm coming back to this one after I do more reading. It is too lulzy to trash.
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