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 Counter APS HEAT Round, trying to breach APS using EMP
Neblewerfer
Posted: Aug 9 2011, 06:47 PM


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Recently I have been working on a series of anti-tank missiles for use by infantry, AFVs, and light helicopters. I did a lot of reading that highlighted the weaknesses of modern ATGMs. It seems that advances in Active Protection Systems and jamming devices have significantly reduced the possibility of a one-shot kill with a ATGM. This, in combination with a new generation of counter ATGM technologies that can detect the lasers and optical reflections of launch command units, makes it even more significant if a missile cant achieve a direct hit with the first shot.

I came across Allanea's translation of the report on Russian RFEMP rounds (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=10143) and I was intrigued as to the possibility of mounting a precursor RFEMP charge with a HEAT warhead. The RFEMP would target the operating frequency of the sensors, particularly the G-band, Doppler, or millimeter-wave radars that provide targeting information to APS hard-kill launchers. This "precursor" would detonate when the missile is about 20-30 meters from target, after which the main HEAT charge would continue to the target while the APS system was still recovering from the frequency spike.

Ideally the weapon would be able to achieve a higher percentage of direct hits, and effectively negate close in APS systems.

In order to make this work I had a wire-guided SACLOS missile of large to medium size in mind. This way there would be a minimum effect on the missile's own electronics, if designed correctly, since it wont use MMW radar or laser detectors for guidance. Even then, it would be so close to the target when the precursor RFEMP charge detonates, I dont think it would really matter if an impact fuse triggered detonation.

For greater effect a tandem HEAT warhead could be added on smaller missiles to counter ERA as well.

Essentially 2 questions.

1. Would this work?
2. Are the radars a good target for the RFEMP, or is there another critical component that is used in all types of APS that would be just as vulnerable. Ideally there would be a component that responds to a frequency spike that is used in all types of APS, regardless of guidance method. Otherwise, rounds will have to be specially made to deal with a particular APS system depending on which radar it uses.


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Kyiv
Posted: Aug 9 2011, 07:01 PM


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The main problem I see is how does the missile survive the precursor going off?

Making it tough enough isn't the only the problem, the blast could easily destabilize the missile and cause it to tumble, swerve and generally go places it shouldn't.


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i think it is you that is the fool.My education was brought with money, not from wikipedia!


QUOTE (Rich and Corporations @ Apr 16 2012, 10:06 PM)
Oh my god, everyone is either wrong or fucking stupid.
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Neblewerfer
Posted: Aug 9 2011, 07:32 PM


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Good point. Initial ideas would be some kind of releasable sub-munition or precursor round that detonates separately from the main projectile. If that becomes the method of implementation it will probably be akin to the RPG-30, with the precursor round containing the RFEMP

I admit I need to do more reading on Radio Frequency weapons. I am trying to find more information, but it doesn't seem to be a common topic. I have been looking for about an hour and I have only managed to get one research paper on explosive initiated radio frequency weapons, other than Alleana's translated article. Its rather frustrating since I can usually find what I'm looking for in a matter of minutes.

Needless to say the round will be complicated and expensive. I figured it would be cheaper in lives and currency than relying on mass projectile spam.


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Kyiv
Posted: Aug 9 2011, 07:58 PM


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Mhhh you should be aware the U.S. Army has developed and fielded a series of small radar jammers than can be retrofitted to missiles and shells called CAPS.



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i think it is you that is the fool.My education was brought with money, not from wikipedia!


QUOTE (Rich and Corporations @ Apr 16 2012, 10:06 PM)
Oh my god, everyone is either wrong or fucking stupid.
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Lamoni
Posted: Aug 9 2011, 11:19 PM


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QUOTE (Kyiv @ Aug 9 2011, 10:58 AM)
Mhhh you should be aware the U.S. Army has developed and fielded a series of small radar jammers than can be retrofitted to missiles and shells called CAPS.

Would you happen to have any sources for that, Kyiv? I'd be most interested in seeing those.


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Stevid: Well, you must be congratulated for creating an arsenal ship that hasn't been torn to shreds by the NSD Naval community. I've seen many arsenal ships go through here and been laughed at, but you've gone and designed one that everyone seems at least half okay with.  Well done.


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Lyras: Competence-wise, an M-21 would comfortably be a match for the vast majority of NS-grade tanks.


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Yanitaria: Compared to you, most designers look like they have ADD.


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Ekraysia: I have to say, comparing your military equipment to that of the average NSer would be like comparing the T-34 to a hastily up-armoured elderly horse.


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<Anemos> Sometimes I can't help but wonder if you're on a design team of some sort
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Neblewerfer
Posted: Aug 10 2011, 12:18 AM


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Yea, I second that. I got even less useful results trying to find info on CAPS than RFEMPs. I think I'm going to keep looking into this. I think that an RFEMP could be more effective than a jammer. Especially since the overload from an RFEMP would cause problems even after the RFEMP detonated, while a jammer will be destroyed in the explosion. In the meantime I am going to learn about radar, maybe I can find a specific component to target.

Note to self: look into an APS designed to track jamming signals emitted from missiles or CLUs.


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Kyiv
Posted: Aug 10 2011, 01:34 AM


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QUOTE
    III.H.14. Counter Active Protection Systems (CAPS). Overall objective: Develop and demonstrate technologies which can be applied to anti-tank guided weapons (ATGW) for improving their effectiveness against threat armor equipped with active protection systems (APS). Current technology development is concentrated in the following three areas: a. RF Countermeasure (RFCM) technology for jamming or deceiving APS sensors used for detection, acquisition, and tracking; b. long standoff warheads for shooting from beyond the range of APS fragment producing countermunitions; c. ballistic hardening of ATGW to reduce vulnerability to fragment impact.

    RF Countermeasures: MICOM RDEC is developing concepts for deceiving and jamming APS sensors. By end of FY97, a digital model of an APS radar will be completed, passive and active RFCM breadboards will be designed and fabricated, and a test radar will be designed and fabricated. By FY98, bench test and evaluate RFCM breadboards. By FY99, demonstrate prototypes of selected RFCM concepts.
QUOTE
The missile is being upgraded through the Home-on-Jam/Anti-Jam (HOJ/AJ) and Counter-Active Protection System (CAPS) programs. The HOJ/AJ upgrade is a software revision that changes the guidance logic to improve effectiveness against self-screening and standoff jammers. The CAPS upgrade includes hardware and software to provide active counter-countermeasures for the missile.

The Army conducted ten Hellfire missile flight tests in FY03 to support the HOJ/AJ software regression testing and determine its effectiveness in countermeasure environments. Analysis of this testing is ongoing with results expected during 2QFY04. For the CAPS upgrade, pre-qualification testing was conducted in FY03 to address the radome design, antenna design, effective radiated power, guidance section performance, and radar cross-section. Because the CAPS is added to the exterior of the existing missile, aerodynamic impacts of the upgrade are being studied; sub-scale wind tunnel testing was proposed for FY04.

Four missile flights in FY03 supported software regression testing and evaluation under benign conditions while six additional missile flights provided data to demonstrate HOJ/AJ performance under electronic countermeasure (ECM) conditions. Analysis is ongoing to reconcile differences between pre-flight predictions and actual flight-test results for at least one of the six ECM flights. A test report and simulation verification and validation report are expected in early CY04. "Rocket Ball" testing, a series of contractor-run engineering tests, reportedly confirmed good radio frequency performance of three CAPS prototype systems. This series of tests also showed that there was no discernable difference in performance due radome-to-radome variability. There was a small increase in baseline radar cross section with the addition of CAPS to the missile. The ERP test showed that the design has sufficient radio frequency performance margin.
QUOTE
They are researching methods of enhancing the Javelin’s Counter Active Protection System (CAPS) to ensure its high probability of kill as APSs evolve.
QUOTE
The TOW 2B Aero has an advanced counteractive protection system capability
QUOTE
l        TOW 2B GEN 1. The TOW 2B GEN 1 is similar to the TOW 2B but includes the addition of the GEN 1 Counter Active Protection System (CAPS), which is used to defeat enemy active protection systems...

l        TOW 2B Aero With GEN 1, 2, and 3A CAPS. These versions of TOW 2B Aero have the addition of different generations of CAPS to defeat an enemy target's active protection system, allowing the TOW 2B missile to successfully engage any armored vehicle up to 4,500 meters (Figure B-9).
QUOTE
In FY07, will complete fabrication, assembly and demonstration of in-flight dynamic retargeting and Counter Active Protection
Systems (APS) capability for Enhanced MRM; will complete fabrication, assembly and demonstration of integrated Enhanced
KE in-flight performance and armor defeat capabilities; and will complete procurement, fabrication, assembly and
demonstration of integrated advanced propulsion capability with temperature compensation and precision ignition.


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i think it is you that is the fool.My education was brought with money, not from wikipedia!


QUOTE (Rich and Corporations @ Apr 16 2012, 10:06 PM)
Oh my god, everyone is either wrong or fucking stupid.
Top
Neblewerfer
Posted: Aug 10 2011, 02:15 AM


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Nice, Will definitely add a form of CAPS jamming to my Anti-Ship missile lines. Perhaps I will make use of that on aircraft and vehicle mounted missile platforms that can quickly relocate.

The biggest problem I'm having is determining how much explosive force a RFEMP charge would produce during detonation. Are we talking about a firecracker, a hand grenade, or bigger?

Initial concept is a 90mm RFEMP charge that is roughly .28m long. It would be attached to the rear of an ATGM, similar to the main charge placement on the SPIKE ATGM (aft of the fight motor). Warhead would either be ejected prior to detonation, or have a brace that could channel the detonation as thrust. (most likely the prior)


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Neblewerfer
Posted: Aug 10 2011, 04:13 AM


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http://books.google.com/books?id=4eMDAAAAM...epage&q&f=false


I'm guessing the article on pg. 94 is close to the mechanism in the RFEMP warheads pictured in Alleana's translated report? Another name that I have found for such devices is Explosive Powered Magnetic Flux Generator. It seems to generate more results than radio frequency EMP based queries.

Edit: Also, apologies for not posting this in the engineering concept critique thread. I thought I had clicked on it this morning, but I had so may tabs open I got them mixed up.


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Kyiv
Posted: Aug 10 2011, 05:04 AM


My tank is umbrella!


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Just use the CAPS.

It's easy and it works.


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QUOTE
i think it is you that is the fool.My education was brought with money, not from wikipedia!


QUOTE (Rich and Corporations @ Apr 16 2012, 10:06 PM)
Oh my god, everyone is either wrong or fucking stupid.
Top
Neblewerfer
Posted: Aug 10 2011, 05:33 AM


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Joined: 22-November 10



I'll shelf it for now, but I'm coming back to this one after I do more reading. It is too lulzy to trash.


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