88% Armaments Designer
Member No.: 1,101
Joined: 13-April 11
Unlike the HAV-3, this has very little on it so far. So yay! Design free-for-all!
It does however use the hull of the HAV-2, so when I lineart the HAV-2 (one year, one year), I'll finally ditch the pic of the HAV-3 and lineart that too.
Primary: 1x 125mm/L52 smoothbore(?) gun
Secondary: TRT-25 style RWS for commander - fitted with CSW-10 25x145mm gun and SAW-3 "Kodkod" GPMG, provision to fit short-barrel variant of CSW-9 30x165mm (known as Improved Lethality System); provision for 2x CSW-11B ATGM launcher; 14.5mm CSW-1 "Shrike" GAVU main gun coaxial mount.
Secondary (Export): Turret roof RWS fitted with CSW-1 "Shrike" HMG in Gun, Armoured Vehicle Unit variant (14.5mm); provision for 2x CSW-11B ATGM launcher
Barrel length: 6500mm (L/52)
Ammunition types: APFSDS, HEAT/-MP, HE-FRAG, GLATGM (modified variant of the CSW-11 in the roof station)
Warhead weight: APFSDS (stylised after M829A3/E4) - 11.5kg projectile, 8.8kg penetrator (2.7kg sabot); HEAT - 15kg, HEAT-MP (stylised after M830A1) - 12.5kg; HE-FRAG - 15kg; GLATGM - TBA
Autoloader and Ammunition: Meggitt-type autoloader, bustle stowing 49 rounds, all rounds 'ready'. Adapted Meggitt system is able to be programmed to select mixed types of round in a set order, or even unload a loaded round, place in the rack and replace with another type of round; four sets of two missiles carried for CSW-11B launcher module, including two pre-loaded; 1900 round 14.5x114mm carried for CSW-1-GAVU coaxial. Rack storage for CSW-1 coax can be used to store limited numbers of shortened feed-belts for CSW-10/CSW-9 autocannons in ILS turret - ILS turret stores its own ammunition (327 rounds 25x145 or 233 rounds 30x165; 1000 rounds 7.62x51)
Autoloader and Ammunition (Export): Bustle-type holding 28 rounds - maximum stowage of 49; four sets of two missiles carried for CSW-11B launcher module, including two pre-loaded; 1900 round 14.5x114mm carried for CSW-1-GAVU RWS
Rate of fire: Primary, 21rpm maximum autoloader speed, typical rate of 10-15rpm; CSW-1-GAUV, 650rpm; SAW-3 Kodkod, 700-1000rpm variable; CSW-10, 200-600rpm variable; CSW-9 200-600rpm variable (ammunition expenditure similar to HAV-3 mounting is simply not necessary)
Maximum range: meh lol
Accurate range: meh lol
Effective range: (APFSDS/HEAT)meh lol
Turret rotational speed: 35 degrees per second
Countermeasures: ERA, some kind of funky systems, Nakidka RAM camouflage
Weight: 73 tonnes
Hull length: 7940mm
Hull width: 3750mm (4200mm with skirts)
Hull height: 1430mm (2530mm with turret, not including RWS)
Engine: Forza GreenTank Diesel-Electric
Engine (Export): Samozniy Auto Manufacturing SAM Type-29 Diesel-Electric - 1800bhp equivalent
Power-to-weight (Export): 24.7bhp/tonne
Maximum speed (Export): 68kph (42mph, road); 43kph (27mph; off-road)
Operational range (Export): 440 miles
Crew: 3 (Driver, Commander, Gunner)
Unit Cost: $8,900,000
CSW-11B ATGM AFV kit deal (2 launchers, 4 reloads): +$317,940
Mod 4 'ILS' RWS and GreenTank can be acquired at additional cost.
So, the gun - a 52 calibre 125mm. Smoothbore or rifled? A rifled would be more ammunition flexible, and be able to pack HESH rounds for accurate, long-range anti-building/light anti-armour. However, it necessitates that the APFSDS, HEAT and possibly GLATGM rounds require slip rings to maximise their own effectiveness. If I were to go smoothbore, would there be any point in retaining HESH rounds?
Co-ax - wasn't sure if I should bother with a Co-axial weapon or not. I was considering either another CSW-1 (a 14.5x114mm heavy machine gun), or some kind of light autocannon. Perhaps give it co-axial autocannon capability, which reduces maximum primary armament. 20, 25 or 30mm would be what I would think of for that.
POWAH: it's the same hull and thus the same diesel-electric drive as the HAV-3, so we still have the 2250bhp we've been umming-and-aahing about. However, I did reduce the range to a less lolworthy figure than before. That said, it's still well above the ranges of several modern Main Battle Tanks with lower weights and lower engine powers, and is probably what the HAV-3's range ought to be reduced to. This may end up with a range of less than 350mi
Reduced road and off-road speed to reflect much heavier weight - off-road speed was reduced by less than road speed. Given it 1800hp compared to the original 2250, so bhp/tonne is 24.7, which is much more reasonable.
|The Samozniy Workshops HAV-2 (Heavy Armoured Vehicle Type 2) "King David" Main Battle Tank was first introduced into service with the Samozniy People's Army Armoured Corps in November 2008 to attempt to supplement the T-90 and later also uprated T-90-X tanks then in service by 2011, when major deployment was underway. Since then, two upgrade packages have been brought into line - the Mod 1 package which changed the ammunition from low-power 125x383mm Russian rounds to a series of Samozniy-developed 125mm rounds utilising a much more powerful 525mm case, more in line with NATO tank rounds such as the US 120x570mm rounds introduced after a few months of service; and the Mod 2 package which took the tank to the HAV-2-X level, denoting a major improvement in combat capability. The Mod 2 was based on combat experience in the First Harlooian Conflict as well as the First, Second and Third AGA Uprisings and the Roiliscopan War, and was applied in late 2013. In very similar fashion to the US Army's TUSK programme for the M1A2 Abrams; it applied applique armour, ERA and HEAT-defeating slat armours as factory standard, whereas before they had been applied in the field. A cleaner burning engine, improved Fire Control and an active doppler jammer for ATGM defence was added to the system, along with making the Commander's 14.5mm machine gun a Remote Weapon System rather than a manned weapon and adding a twin-tube launcher for the medium ATGM, the CSW-11-X-B "Vampir" AFV launcher mount.|
In order to supplement the T-90/T-90-X tanks quickly, at a speed that could not be managed by the then-fledgling Samozniy Military Industries, vast quanities of Yohannes-manufactured VMK AG main battle tanks were purchased at tremendous cost, and still equip entire armoured brigades to this day.
These vehicles were excellent in combat, being equipped with an immensely powerful gun and high-strength armour, but were incredibly expensive to procure, repair, maintain, run and supply ammunition for. Meaning that many were mothballed and replaced with much cheaper T-90/T-90-X in service - again increasing pressure to produce more HAV-2 main battle tanks to create an all-Samozniy armoured corps.
The armament of the current-gen Mod 2 HAV-2-X King David comprises three separate systems - the main gun, a 125mm L/52 rifled-barrel bustle-autoloaded gun; a 14.5mm remote-operated machine gun for the commander mounted on the turret roof; a second RWS mounting a twin-barrel reloadable short-range ATGM launcher. There is planned provision for either a GPMG co-axial, or even a small autocannon as co-axial. The planned Mod 3 HAV-2-X upgrade package will test the reliability and effectiveness of a 14.5mm coaxial with autocannon RWS versus 14.5mm RWS and autocannon co-axial.
The decision to go with a rifled barrel over earlier smoothbore iterations was made for two reasons - range and accuracy. The more accurately you can engage the enemy at longer range, the more likely you are to score a kill without entering their own kill zone. The previous issue with rifled barrels is that three modern tank rounds are actively hindered in effect by rifling - APFSDS (Armour Piercing Fin-Stabilised Discarding-Sabot) loses forward momentum to the spin, and has fins to stabilise in flight rendering the spin-imparted accuracy useless; HEAT (High Explosive Anti-Tank) warhead 'jets' lose their effectiveness when spun and gain a 'doughnut' effect, reducing penetration; GLATGM (Gun-Launched Anti-Tank Guided Missile) simply don't gain any advantage being rocket propelled and guided, and just add to barrel wear.
However, these effects can be negated - 'slip rings' can be added to all three rounds, which isolate the spin from rifling to the rings themselves, keeping the round stable. HEAT rounds can have folding fins added to their base to stabilise them in flight in this configuration, or have specialised warheads that spin the jet itself to counteract the round's rifling spin, granting both the effective penetration of HEAT-type warheads and the range and accuracy boost from rifled barrels.
Five types of warhead are produced for the main gun, with varying purpose models in each type. HEAT-FS (High Explosive Anti-Tank Fin Stabilised), HESH (High Explosive Squash Head), APFSDS (Armour Piercing Fin Stabilised Discarding Sabot), Canister and GLATGM (Gun-Launcher Anti-Tank Guided Missile).
The HEAT-type system has two distinct variants of warhead - a twin-stage tandem warhead for engaging enemy armoured vehicles in relatively low-intensity conflicts, and a triple-stage tandem for improved after-armour effects versus heavier tanks. The twin-stage round typically has both warhead liners as copper, the precursor charge slightly offset. The triple-stage has an offset copper-lined precursor, a centered tungsten (or depleted uranium)-lined main charge warhead, and a depleted-uranium follow-up warhead offset in the opposite direction to the precursor. A thermite-based follow-up warhead of a zinc/aluminium oxide mix is available for export, to nations who do not permit the use of DU munitions.
The Fire Control System is capable of accurately engaging with APFSDS out to 3000m, HEAT at 5000m and HESH at ranges of almost 6500m. Canister rounds are lethal at more than 2km, but are only 'effective' at ranges between 200 and 1000m due to the shotgun 'scatter' effect decreasing hit probabilities beyond 800m. Current GLATGM rounds have an effective range of 8km, but a proposed GLATGM variant of the CSW-11-X ATGM is supposed to launch a tandem-HEAT top-attack warhead out to almost 12km. With a -8 to +36 degree elevation, the maximum possible range achieved with APFSDS rounds can be as great as 20km.
The RWS machine gun (turret right) is the CSW-1-GAVU (Crew-served Support Weapon Type 1 "Shrike" Gun, Armoured Vehicle Unit), chambered in 14.5x114mm ammunition. 1900 rounds are carried, and a variety of ammunition types can be used including SLAP, flechette, HEI (also a modified Raufoss variant) and tracer variations of each, allowing for a 4:1 ratio of regular:tracer. As ammunition is stored in 100-round boxed belts, multiple ammunition mixes can be carried for varying purposes.
Within its gyroscopically-stabilised remote-operated turret, the weapon is accurate to more than 1200m and capable of hitting troops and thin-skinned vehicles in the open at almost two kilometres.
The RWS mounting features a 52x zoom day/night camera with IR, PNV and B/W and colour modes, with laser rangefinder and ballistic computer for indirect and long-range fire. It typically fires in preset bursts of 5, 10, 20, 50 and even 100 rounds (the entire belt at once for suppressive fire), whilst single fire and manual fully-automatic can be achieved by disengaging the burst mode.
The mounting is also capable of accepting the lighter 12.7x99mm "Para" variant of the CSW-1, for which 2500 rounds can be carried in 125-round belts, and the 7.62x51mm SAW-3 "Kodkod" GPMG for which 4500 rounds can be available in 250-round belts. The '100-round burst' mode when chambered for 12.7x99mm 125-round belts or 7.62x51mm 250-round belts is replaced by 125-round burst and 250-round burst, respectively. In event of the tank being abandoned, the RWS machine gun can be retrieved for personnel use in a matter of seconds.
In 2020, the decision was made to improve the lethality and firepower of the Commander's defensive armament. Whilst the 14.5mm round of the CSW-1 has around twice the energy of .50BMG and provides a potent threat to thin-skin, light armoured vehicles and even low-flying aircraft, it was felt that lacked 'deterrent' properties when dealing with heavier vehicles for which the main gun could not be brought to bear upon, and when the Vampir ATGM mount could not be reloaded.
The King David Improved Lethality System (informally "King DILS") consists of a seventy-centimetre tall automated turret mounted above the main turret, and typically carries the 25mm (25x145) CSW-10 chain-driven electrically-operated autocannon with 327 ready rounds carried in a dual-feeding system, and a SAW-3 Kodkod 7.62x51mm GPMG mounted coaxially (1000 ready rounds). The turret has 360 degrees traverse, and can elevate between -12 and +75 degrees (when facing left, elevation is restricted to -7 degrees). The turret can complete an entire rotation in under four seconds, and has an elevation speed of 80 degrees per second. The system is capable of accepting a short-barrel variant of the 30mm CSW-9 (30x165) chain-driven electrically operated autocannon compared to the four-metre barrel variant used on the HAV-3 SPAAG. Rotational and elevation speed are slightly reduced due to the added weight. Only 233 ready rounds are carried when using the CSW-9. Kodkod ammunition supply not affected.
The ILS turret mounts a lightweight FLIR/TADS module, a smaller and lower-powered version compared to the one found on the HIND-X-3 gunship. It features full sensor suite, of infra-red with WHOT/BHOT modes, full-colour day TV and a separate NV/IRNV vision mode for night fighting and is capable of around 70x zoom magnification, allowing for accurate engagement of almost 1800m with the CSW-10 and more than 2200m with the CSW-9, beyond the effective range of the Kodkod. The turret body mounts a LWR and MAWS module as part of an integrated APS, more details in the Systems and Countermeasures segment.
The ILS package also features the addition of a main gun coaxial mount for the CSW-1 "Shrike" 14.5mm machine gun, which can utilise the 1900 rounds storage originally allocated to its use as an RWS weapon. This storage can also be used for a limited number of 25x145 or 30x165mm rounds to 'top up' the feed belt for the ILS autocannon.
The second RWS (turret left) features the CWS-11-X-B (AFV variant), a twin-barrel launcher module for the CSW-11-X "Vampir" ATGM - a system added to deal with enemy armour in urban or woodland combat, where the main gun could not be brought to bear - also so that crew do not have to dismount with handheld AT weapons, as other nations sometimes equip tank crews. The system has two missiles loaded, and six reload missile stored within the turret.
The Vampir is a "fire and forget" dual-tandem top-attack HEAT weapon that can engage armour, low-flying helicopters (for which it does not use top-attack), or laser-guidance onto a specific location for use as a point weapon, in built-up areas or in proximity to friendly forces. The typical warhead load is precursor copper liner as a 'standoff' munition to trigger ERA, slat armour and APS, whilst the main charge is a DU liner and is capable of 300-400mm RHa penetration. Alternate main charges (such as a second copper liner, or tungsten) are available for when use of DU is not permitted for varying reasons. Because of its fire and forget nature, it can be used to discourage enemy armour from pursuing a damaged tank or to deter loitering 'tank killer' attack helicopters.
The mounting is on a hydraulic arm for firing, and can retract within a well on the turret roof, allowing the commander's RWS (both standard and ILS) a greater field of fire.
Engine and Powertrain
Turbo-induction 10-litre (?) V-12 diesel driving a large electric motor.
Forza, I'm going to look over your D/E engine writeup for help - not going to steal any features, just help on how one actually works, and what to say about it. Lol.
9 forward gears (including a high-torque low-range gear and a low-torque low-range), 3 reverse (one high-torque high speed, the second high-torque low-range, the other low-torque)
The King David battle tank, in its original design, was merely a new hull to take a slightly adapted turret from the T-90 battle tank, as inherited from the Russian tank fleets. It was quickly decided that given the expense already accrued, a whole new tank ought to be designed.
A number of considerations were made as to the armour layout of the new tank. One design bureau wished to retain the layout of the prior T-72, T-80 and T-90 battle tanks, and simply improve upon its protection levels. Others called for a whole new scheme. A western scheme was eventually adopted, seeking a heavier battle tank.
Countermeasures and Systems
Smoke grenade discharger.
Smoke generator (sprays diesel onto exhaust, creating thick smoke, Chally 2 and Abrams style).
"D/G band doppler" jammer (no-one ever told me if this was bs or not).
Optional Nakidka camouflage.
ERA on front hull top, turret roof (both optional), turret sides, side skirts (both standard).
Slat armour on bustle, engine rear, front hull underbelly.
APS radar-based warning sensor, RWR and MAWS(?) for guided munition alert.
Possible variant equipped with Metal Storm-alike tri-launcher battery for APS hardkill.
The King David ILS turret features a MAWS (Missile Alert Warning System) radar module, and triple-point LWR (Laser Warning Receiver) for alerting the crew to enemy anti-tank missile lock and discharge, be it from an aircraft, another armoured vehicle, or deployed by infantry. The ILS turret's body features two integrated hardkill APS modules on its front/upper left and right surfaces, each mounting 15 Metal-Storm style barrels in a 5x3 layout, each carrying four low-calibre rounds. On the front/side left and right panels, a 12-shot grenade launcher (40x53mm) module is mounted, capable of discharging smoke rounds, APS hardkill airburst munitions to supplement the Metal Storm system, or conventional munitions. A mix of munitions is often carried, typically consisting of four smoke rounds, three APS airburst rounds and five conventional rounds per launcher.
Current and planned variants:
HAV-2 Mod 0 - original issue variant
HAV-2 Mod 1 - uprated gun and FCS to current issue - otherwise unaltered
HAV-2-X (Mod 2) - "TUSK" (Tank Urban Survival Kit) type modifications applied - improved battery storage for electric-only running; increased ammunition stowage; new ammunition warheads; introduction of rifled barrels; additional electronic and other countermeasures applied. Current general issue variant
HAV-2-X Mod 2 (Mod 4) - Mod 3 (X-2) turret in 125mm rejected for general issue, only issued on HAV-1 LTD. Mod 2 turrets adapted for Meggitt-type autoloader. Ammunition changed from semi-combustible cases to fully-combustible. Active cooling introducing to gun chamber to prevent round cookoff. Introduction of TRT-25 style autocannon RWS in place of current Commander RWS. 14.5mm CSW-1 machine gun moved to forced-induction cooling coaxial gun. Engine and drivetrain in Samozniy service replaced with licence-manufactured Forza GreenTank D/E drive.
HAV-2-X-2 (Mod 3 series) - Referred to as "Turtle" variant, this has a Falcon-type unmanned low-profile turret utilising a Meggitt-type bustle autoloader (full width). Comes in 125mm variant as MBT, and a 155mm variant for tank destroyer variant. Both turret has near-drop-in capability with the HAV-2-X
HAV-3 - The HAV-2 lends its hull and hull systems to the HAV-3 SPAAG system. Recent HAV-3-X Mod 1 variant includes all applicable HAV-2 Mod 2 upgrades
HAV-2/5 - Interim system for Samozniy Nuclear Assault Brigade. Equipped with twin-barrel 170mm L/40 gun system for nuclear shelling from stationary as an SPG. To be phased along with the HAV-4 following the introduction of the HAV-6 SPG
HAV-2-X/N - HAV-2 upgraded to serve in the SNAB. Gun uprated to 155mm L/45 with additional FCS and special communications package, carries mix of conventional and nuclear shells. Extended bustle to accommodate larger rounds extends almost off of tank rear. Engine uprated to 2200bhp from 1800bhp to account for extra weight. Tracks widened to 840mm for improved ground pressure
HAV-2-X/N-2 X/N variant based off of the Mod 3 (X-2) type. Turret replaced with Mod 3 type, allowing ease of switching between conventional and nuclear rounds
This post has been edited by Samozaryadnyastan on Aug 24 2012, 10:57 PM
Samozniy Military Industries
Starting alliances and ending wars since 2011.
|QUOTE (Falls @ Sep 10 2012, 05:14 PM)|
a good general guess if you look closely is, grossly superior to foreign counter-parts.