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| Lyras |
Posted: Jan 11 2012, 01:22 PM
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The erudite and ever-diplomatic voice of reason Group: Admin Posts: 1,516 Member No.: 111 Joined: 10-June 07 |
LY23 'Songbird' 14.7mm Anti-Materiel Rifle
![]() Weight: 19.6kg (unloaded) Length: 1550mm Barrel length: 800mm Cartridge: 14.7mm x 115mm (14.7 Lyran) Action: semi-automatic, gas operated, rotating bolt, long-recoil Rate of fire: 400rpm (cyclic) Muzzle velocity: 1030 m/s Effective range: ~2,000 m Maximum range: ~2,700m Penetration: ~40mm RHAe @ 500m. ~25mm RHAe @1000m. Feed system: 5rd detachable box or 10 rd drum Sights: Aperture rear, hooded post front. Picatinny rails allow alternates. [spoiler=Abstract] The LY23 ‘Songbird’ is a long-range, large-caliber, semi-automatic anti-materiel rifle. Designed by the Lyran Protectorate Research and Development Commission, and marketed by Lyran Arms, the LY23 serves in the long-range anti-materiel, sniper and counter-sniper roles within forces of the Protectorate of Lyras, and in similar roles in a host of Lyran allies and clients. [/spoiler] [spoiler= Background, development and conceptualisation] Lyran long range marksmanship is a national pastime. As befits a highly martial state, competitive marksmanship is also a spectator sport, and is strongly encouraged at all levels, with first trials for teams held (in some areas) as early as 7 years of age. It might seem slightly unusual to discover, that being said, that the Protectorate has not, until very recently, any indigenous large-bore rifles of any kind. That being said, the ongoing drive to expand and improve the Lyran Protectorate’s arsenal, its combat effectiveness, and its international arms export competitiveness could not allow this niche to remain unfilled indefinitely. So, in mid-2011, Executive Command issued a directive to Osmouth Arsenal, Highcairn Manufacturing and the Protectorate Research and Development Commission to produce a high-power weapon capable of matching or surpassing international benchmarks in the long range anti-materiel and sniper roles. Progress was checkered. The three design bureaus did not always see eye-to-eye, and the gargantuan impositions of production stipulated by the Lyran export markets pulled considerable resources away from the input that could be offered by Osmouth Arsenal and Highcairn Manufacturing. Rivalries between the Protectorate’s two largest production authorities can (and did) get heated, although the competitive interplay of ideas also brought forward innovative solutions. As with the LY47, however, it so happened that the LY23 was actually initially designed to be too light, with recoil patterns being pronounced and borderline painful, and with muzzle climb and –flash being very notable. Recoil attenuation measures of diverse forms were put back on, and while some weight savings were gained by fluting and hollowing elements of the weapon, it ended up several kilograms heavier than it was initially envisaged. Initial suggestions by Osmouth Arsenal that the weapon be a manual bolt-action system were considered, and several prototypes of that nature produced, and very accurate ones at that, but Highcairn advocated a semi-automatic system, citing ease of engagement, and speed of response to misses as crucial elements, as well as the practicality of firing the weapon from positions other than the prone, should the need arise. The decision was, eventually, made to go with the Highcairn-proffered solution, and the weapon was designed as a semi-automatic system. Despite hiccoughs, development was still very fast by conventional international standards, and 9 months after work was begun, the first batches of the LY23, newly dubbed ‘Songbird’ were rolling off the production lines at Southbastion Ironworks. [/spoiler] [spoiler=Construction]Where construction is concerned, the LY23 ‘Songbird’ is a very distinctly Lyran weapon, borrowing elements from the LY46 and LY47, as well as the more obvious LY21 and -22. There was the usual ongoing war fought between the requirements for firing platform stability, accuracy and recoil attenuation, versus the fact that the thing was always going to be heavy, and someone has to carry the thing, probably for quite some distance, and through difficult terrain, likely in a stealthy manner. As it turned out, similar issues that had arisen before generated similar solutions, with incremental progression again being made in certain areas, with the eventual weapon featuring the characteristically Lyran blend of light- and heavy-weight materials. Notably, the entire weapon’s body is made up of a combination of high-tension plastics and high-durability, lightweight, impact-resistant fibreglass-reinforced polyamide to increase manageability and cut down on weight. The barrel is easily detached and packed away for increased mobility, although the manageable weight of the total assembled weapon makes this feature rarely utilised. The weapon is held together entirely with push-pins, a concept borrowed from the G36, AUG and Lyro-Yanitarian AY144L, which allows the weapon to be disassembled entirely without tools, and much more quickly than rifles that require such equipment. The rifle can be broken down into a small amount of parts, and entire bits can be swapped out to fully customize the rifle. The working parts and majority of the gas system are tungsten primarily for its very high heat tolerance, which improves the weapon’s performance and sustained accuracy. The barrel is cold hammer-forged steel, and is chrome lined, with a 1 in 10 rifling twist. Sundries are generally composed of synthetics, to keep the weapon’s weight down as far as practical, given the parameters of performance. [/spoiler] [spoiler=Ammunition] Despite the widespread and very satisfactory Lyran use of caseless ammunition, the LY23 uses a more conventional cased ammunition type. Based around the in-service LY112 14.7x115mm round (of the same type as used in the LY60 heavy machine gun), the LY23’s ammunition provides very high lethality even at very long range, and the very widespread international use of the LY60 HMG ensures easy access to ammunition in near every theatre of war. Specially designed for the precision marksmanship role, however, is the improved and accurised Osmouth Arsenal LY113 ‘Hellsfist’ round. Essentially an up-scaled Raufoss Mk 211, the round features a tungsten armour piercing core, Composition A4 explosive, and an incendiary mixture, held within a copper jacket around a mild steel base cup. It is optimised for penetration of lightly armoured targets, and is particularly capable of causing extensive after-armour effects to equipment and personnel. Its incendiary component makes it notably able to ignite fuel mixtures, and its very high kinetic energy makes it, of course, highly lethal against unarmoured targets and personnel. Testing and energy comparison indicates that the Hellsfist round, fired from an LY23, has about the same destructive power as conventional 25mm cannon against lightly armoured targets. [/spoiler] [spoiler=Operating and feed system and recoil attenuation] In most regards the LY23 is a fairly conventional rotating-bolt, gas-operated, semi-automatic rifle. Similar to a number of AMRs, the LY23 also features a hydraulic recoil dampening system within the otherwise-skeletonised buttstock. Borrowing from the design of the German DSR-50 rifle, the Songbird features a high-performance combination muzzle-brake and flash-suppressor. The muzzle attachment, termed a ‘linear compensator’ on the DSR-50, not only lowers felt-recoil, but also reduces perceived muzzle blast, both visually and acoustically. [/spoiler] [spoiler= Trigger/safety mechanism] ![]() Safety of the AUG, set to ‘fire’. The LY23 is also typically Lyran in its use of the push-through safety system. The safety is located immediately above the weapon's pistol grip, and is a simple thumb or index-finger operated push-action trigger-lock safety. The safety protrudes 1cm from the weapon's right, just ahead of a right hander's index finger, on the trigger guard, when in safe mode, and displays a white dot to the operator. When switched to “fire” condition, the safety is taken offline by the index finger pushing it into the weapon. The safety will then protrude 1cm out the opposite (left hand) side of the weapon, and display a red dot to the operator, indicating the weapon's state of readiness visually, as well as to physical inspection. This safety system, identical to that featured on the AUG, was selected for its ability to be engaged or disengaged without the operator taking his hands from the weapon's foregrip or trigger, and yet being able to check the readiness status of the weapon without visual inspection. The trigger mechanism itself is simple and robust, and configured, as is Lyran standard, to break at 2.1kg, although this can be adjusted without tools, if the operator knows what they are doing. It is very common for marksmen to adjust down this trigger pressure, but the default remains at 2.1kg. [/spoiler] [spoiler= Sighting system] As is increasingly common on Lyran small arms, the LY23 features a full-length dorsal picatinny rail for mounting of any number of sighting systems. Anything compatible with the picatinny rail system can be mounted on the weapon. By default, Songbirds in Lyran service utilise the Highcairn Manufacturing Zone 10x40 Mark III multifunction sight. The system combines a series of holographic reflex-type targeting overlays (with adjustable brightness, and reticle selection as per M68) with a more conventional cross hair, night weapon sight function, night aiming device (boresighted at 100 metres), manually operated optical zoom with digital autofocus. A bullet-drop compensator is also available as an overlay to any fire mode, which has proven very useful at longer engagement ranges, accessed by toggle switch that does not require the firing hand to be moved from the pistol grip. The sight is water-tight down to 50 metres, and is free of parallax error at ranges outside 30 metres. The new Li+ polymer battery, the same that powers the ignition system of the LY21 AHLAR, provides the sight with world-benchmark endurance in combat conditions, for a system of its type, and is rechargeable from the 240v AC outlet featured on most Lyran-designed vehicles, or a regular power outlet. [/spoiler] [spoiler= Accessories] The LY23’s very long dorsal and ventral picatinny rails provide the weapon with a tremendous versatility. The following illustration shows some of the many possible accessories, but is by no means exhaustive. Note, however, that the weapon is not provided with these accessories, when delivered. Choice of additions to the platform are an end-user prerogative, and the cost of these accessories is not covered by purchase of an LY23. Negotiations into the acquisition of some, or all, of these accessories can, of course, be entered into with the respective entity, or through Lyran Arms.[/spoiler] [spoiler= Export] The LY23 ‘Songbird’ is available for purchase at NS$15,000 per weapon. Domestic production rights are available for purchase at NS$4 billion. Please note that production of the 14.7x115mm LY112 round is not proprietary, but the LY113 ‘Hellsfist’ round is, and authority to produce the LY113 must be acquired separately. Questions or purchases can be made through http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.ph...&t=1112&start=0]Lyran Arms[/url]. [/spoiler] -------------------- - The only clergyman on NSD "Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives... you are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours... You, the mothers, who sent their sons from far away countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well." Kemal Atatürk 1934
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| Vault X |
Posted: Jan 11 2012, 04:28 PM
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![]() Designer Group: Members Posts: 6,416 Member No.: 937 Joined: 16-July 10 |
That and not just that should make it heavier, even if the weight is stated w/o scope and bipod. 14.5x114mm is nearly twice the firepower of .50 BMG, you seem to be adding a bit on top of that. 14.5mm bolts are heavy, and you're doubling it with a counterweight, and adding tungsten parts. Rifles in this caliber start just a bit under 20kg and go up to 35. Yours isn't the most simplistic one even as it stands, and everything adds weight, even (decorative?) plastic fairings.
What other positions can a 14.7mm AMR possibly be fired from? I can only think of benchrested position, in which the bolt is also easily operated.
I don't see it TBH. It's a HEI, nothing special, a lot of 25mm rounds are HEI. Answer rather - what makes 25mm cannon shells so bad that they would only perform as weak as bullets with 1/3 their weight and 1/4 their energy?
It mostly affects fully automatic weapons. Since actual recoil is not reduced (more force is transferred to the weapon), and since the weapon uses a shock absorber, which mitigates bolt carrier impact, the effect is small. It's lower than that of a recoiling barrel, for instance.
You either push muzzle blast up, to have a climb compensator, or down, which aside from raising dust would worsen climb, or to the sides, as the picture would indicate. Considering that all modern and not-so-modern .50BMG rifles have a muzzle brake, which they really have to have, and none of these are just buckets with a hole, the last statement is just empty puffery, like advertising how you thoughtfully include a reverse gear with all your cars, and completely free of charge, too.
Night sights aren't exactly the most conventional or standardized piece of kit. What is "night weapon sight function", is it like "rifle with a gun function"? Day/night scopes are just a night sight piggybacked on the side or the top of a regular scope, and at least which it is should be mentioned. I can't see the night vision part on the pictures.
Regular power outlets can carry 100V, 120V, 230V, and be shaped as two or three rods, two parallel bars, two transverse bars, three bars with socket safety. So which is it? Batteries themselves aren't recharged from AC outlet, you need a charging converter, if it's built-in, say that, might want to specify where the cord is. Also, the whole paragraph as of now is an almost comically verbose way to say your sight is battery powered. This is especially comical because the paragraph is incorrect: however well-built, a powered sight with autofocus and a rechargeable battery is by its very nature way below world-benchmark endurance, which is set by sights with no batteries at all or reticule illumination from a small button cell that lasts it a year. Good or bad, but if you need to recharge it, it's not the same level of endurance as if it lasts a year. -------------------- |
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| Satirius |
Posted: Jan 14 2012, 08:57 PM
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![]() confirmed deceased Group: Members Posts: 2,807 Member No.: 861 Joined: 12-March 10 |
as it stands i don't think the bolt has enough room to cycle
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| Rich and Corporations |
Posted: Jan 14 2012, 09:22 PM
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![]() 84% Armaments Designer Group: Members Posts: 1,698 Member No.: 938 Joined: 19-July 10 |
Needs a crank charger.
-------------------- <@Number_Muncher>it can only be sigged if it's a lie. No true statement has ever been sigged[/QUOTE] Praise for RnC
Now 100% efficient at fighting mod tyranny. |
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| Lyras |
Posted: Jan 15 2012, 10:44 PM
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The erudite and ever-diplomatic voice of reason Group: Admin Posts: 1,516 Member No.: 111 Joined: 10-June 07 |
-Pushed weight up by 4kg. I forgot to add the counterweight’s mass, and over-estimated the weight saving measures implemented.
Actually, I meant from the hip, conceptually. Later marks of the Hungarian Gepard weapon were designed with that in mind, and I figured I’d try for the same… I wouldn’t expect pinpoint accuracy doing so, mind… -Deleted balanced automatics…
Admittedly, I have no idea, but I am running off what wikipedia said regarding the Mk211 Raufoss. It asserted that the Raufoss was equivalent to a 20mm cannon’s impact against lightly armoured targets. Given that we’ve already made the point that a 14.5 is about twice the power of a 12.7, putting a Raufoss-esque 14.7mm round at about twice the power of the baseline Raufoss seemed feasible… hence the 20mm – 25mm comparison.
Sorry, poor wording on my part. I meant ‘push down’ as in ‘reduce’… adjusted.
Actually, within Australian service, night weapon sights are conventional, and standard, so perhaps my own experiences were bleeding into this write up more than a tad. A night weapon sight, as distinct from a night aiming device, is essentially a night vision/low light system within a telescopic sight (in As service, anyway). In essence, come nightfall, the night weapon sight is switched to ‘on’, and the light amplification system is engaged. The rest of the time, that function is not engaged, so as to preserve battery power. -Power outlet specified. Cheers for the pointer. Also decided to be a bit more precise on the wording, given your assertions that my comic mastery needs work -------------------- - The only clergyman on NSD "Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives... you are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours... You, the mothers, who sent their sons from far away countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well." Kemal Atatürk 1934
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| The Mighty Islands |
Posted: Jan 19 2012, 03:32 AM
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3% Armaments Designer Group: Members Posts: 61 Member No.: 1,261 Joined: 19-December 11 |
So, sorry to be a stick in the mud about the picture, but something about it looked odd at the back, specifically the bolt. I used MS paint with the firearm (For the first time) and measured the length of the bolt from the bolt handle to the end and length of the bolt itself.
The length of the section covering the internal part of the weapon is 115 pixels from front to back, as shown by the blue line. The purple line shows where the section would be if pulled back to eject a round. It extends so far back that it would have to go through the metal butt-plate and into the shoulder rest if pulled all the way back. Even if the bolt isn't pulled all the way back, there isn't enough room for it to fit. ![]() Also, as it is a bullpup weapon, is it usable by a left-handed operator? |
| Allanea |
Posted: Jan 19 2012, 03:43 AM
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You have way too much time on your hands ... Group: Moderators Posts: 3,729 Member No.: 88 Joined: 27-May 07 |
It really does not need to be pulled that far back. It only needs to go back as long as the cartridge is, which is clearly shorter than this blue line.
-------------------- ![]() ![]() "That's fucking epic!" ~~ Scandavian States, on my translations " Fucking awesome. Do more." ~~Questers, on my translations |
| The Mighty Islands |
Posted: Jan 19 2012, 04:55 AM
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3% Armaments Designer Group: Members Posts: 61 Member No.: 1,261 Joined: 19-December 11 |
In that case. The length of the magazine is 73 pixels, the length of the magazine is clearly shorter than that of the rounds it carries, so empty shell casing could be removed, but not a loaded casing, which would be maybe 69-71 pixels long. The bolt would have enough room to eject a round, but it is still a tight fit. |
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| Lyras |
Posted: Jan 22 2012, 02:27 AM
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The erudite and ever-diplomatic voice of reason Group: Admin Posts: 1,516 Member No.: 111 Joined: 10-June 07 |
Just for you, TMI, I've slightly adjusted the image around the bolt group, to make it less of a tight fit.
As it happens, length of the weapon's pull (as ably pointed out by Riemaia) is excessive, so I have switched the layout to conventional. Any more for any more? -------------------- - The only clergyman on NSD "Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives... you are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours... You, the mothers, who sent their sons from far away countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well." Kemal Atatürk 1934
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| Gc1mak |
Posted: Jan 22 2012, 03:26 AM
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26% Armaments Designer Group: Members Posts: 531 Member No.: 781 Joined: 5-October 09 |
I think you need to reduce the barrel length with what your weapon look like now.
-------------------- Shameless adversting of my habit: http://ae-nekocity.myminicity.com/ http://ae-nekocity.myminicity.com/ind Hail catgirls!
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| The Man |
Posted: Jan 22 2012, 03:34 AM
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8% Armaments Designer Group: Members Posts: 162 Member No.: 820 Joined: 18-December 09 |
He needs to increase it. Make his gun as long as the soldier firing it is tall. |
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| Lyras |
Posted: Jan 22 2012, 03:44 AM
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The erudite and ever-diplomatic voice of reason Group: Admin Posts: 1,516 Member No.: 111 Joined: 10-June 07 |
Cheers, yes, I do need to do this. Ta. -------------------- - The only clergyman on NSD "Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives... you are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours... You, the mothers, who sent their sons from far away countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well." Kemal Atatürk 1934
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| RRoan |
Posted: Jan 22 2012, 04:31 AM
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![]() 38% Armaments Designer Group: Members Posts: 776 Member No.: 674 Joined: 20-February 09 |
You could just do whatever the Gepard GM6 does, although I'm not sure if it's gas-op or not.
-------------------- To the daring belongs the future...
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| Trinary |
Posted: Jan 22 2012, 11:16 AM
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38% Armaments Designer Group: Members Posts: 773 Member No.: 1,004 Joined: 21-October 10 |
I checked my Janes, the m6 is to new for my edition (2008) But the other self loading ones are long-recoil.
Also note that the wikipedia page on the gepard m6 seems way of... *edit* I guess i could check at work were we have the newer editions but you should be able to find it by poking about the internet a bit* |
| Lyras |
Posted: Jan 31 2012, 10:44 PM
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The erudite and ever-diplomatic voice of reason Group: Admin Posts: 1,516 Member No.: 111 Joined: 10-June 07 |
Having poked more at the Gepard Mk6, amongst other things, I don't actually see any inherent advantages in the primary role, although much credit to the Hungarians for a very novel solution to some issues, without making a hideously expensive platform.
Any final points, before I put this up? -------------------- - The only clergyman on NSD "Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives... you are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours... You, the mothers, who sent their sons from far away countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well." Kemal Atatürk 1934
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