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Pages: (7) « First ... 5 6 [7]  ( Go to first unread post )

 Building an engine tutorial
Sumer
Posted: Feb 4 2008, 06:03 AM


You have way too much time on your hands ...


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Added Appendix B to the first post. Reposted here as well.


Appendix B: Real Life fuel/range ratios for modern tanks.

The below ratios are divided up into weight classes based on combat weight, and are taken only for MBTs which have a power/weight ratio at or above 20hp/tonne. Provided data comes from Janes Tank Recognition Guide, and includes stated range (Where nessecary the lower of two estimates is taken), fuel capacity, and from them their ratio.

50 tonnes or above:
- LeClerc (550km/1300L): 2.36L/km
- Leopard 2 (550km/1200L): 2.18L/km
- Arjun (450km/1610L): 3.58L/km
- Type 90 (400km/1100L): 2.75L/km
- Khalid (400km/950L): 2.38L/km
- M1A2 Abrams (426km/1907L): 4.48L/km

40-50 tonnes:
- Degman (700km/1450L): 2.07L/km
- T-80B (450km/1100L): 2.44L/km
- T-90 (550km/1200L): 2.18L/km
- M-84 (700km/1450L): 2.07L/km
- T-84 (540km/1300L): 2.4L/km

30-40tonnes:
- AMX-30 (500km/970L): 1.94L/km

30 tonnes or less:
- TAM (940km/640L): 0.68L/km


--------------------
QUOTE
“I believe that the sound of racking the pump of a shotgun is universally recognized as ‘kiss your ass goodbye’."

Proudly Canadian
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QUOTE ("L3 Communications")
Well...next to Sumer's juggernaut of death, the MCA-7G.
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Vault 10
Posted: Apr 4 2008, 01:34 PM


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QUOTE (Sumer @ May 24 2007, 08:19 AM)
The larger the cylinders, the more fuel injected. Thus the more power the more fuel used. The fewer the number of cylinders per a set displacement, the more fuel used.

Is that for sure, particularly the last bit? I had an impression that larger, slower cylinders in the general are more economical.

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Sumer
Posted: Apr 4 2008, 05:35 PM


You have way too much time on your hands ...


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QUOTE (Vault 10 @ Apr 4 2008, 08:34 AM)
QUOTE (Sumer @ May 24 2007, 08:19 AM)
The larger the cylinders, the more fuel injected. Thus the more power the more fuel used.  The fewer the number of cylinders per a set displacement, the more fuel used.

Is that for sure, particularly the last bit? I had an impression that larger, slower cylinders in the general are more economical.

Cylinder size doesn't always relate to speed. The optimal speed of your engine is a different speed from maximum power speed, and different from best torque speed, and all that. The best is to go for balance unless you actually need one over the other, like in a tug or a generator.

They key here is that larger sylinders with a slower running engine are more economical compared to faster running engines. Remember fuel is injected, in a 4-stroke, every two revolutions of the crank, so if you have two engines of the same total size and one has half the cylinders but they're twice as big, and it runs say at 3000 rpm, that's fuel being injected 1500 times a minute. If the smaller one runs at say 8000 rpm fuel is being injected 4000 times a minute. Even if you push it so far to say the larger slower engine will inject twice the fuel (Never happen) that's still less then the faster one by a bit.


--------------------
QUOTE
“I believe that the sound of racking the pump of a shotgun is universally recognized as ‘kiss your ass goodbye’."

Proudly Canadian
user posted image
QUOTE ("L3 Communications")
Well...next to Sumer's juggernaut of death, the MCA-7G.
Top
Vault 10
Posted: Apr 4 2008, 05:45 PM


Unregistered









QUOTE (Sumer @ Apr 4 2008, 04:35 PM)
Remember fuel is injected, in a 4-stroke, every two revolutions of the crank, so if you have two engines of the same total size and one has half the cylinders but they're twice as big, and it runs say at 3000 rpm, that's fuel being injected 1500 times a minute. If the smaller one runs at say 8000 rpm fuel is being injected 4000 times a minute. Even if you push it so far to say the larger slower engine will inject twice the fuel (Never happen) that's still less then the faster one by a bit.

Yes, that's why slow engines are more economical. But why would many small cylinders be more economical than few large ones?
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Sumer
Posted: Apr 4 2008, 05:53 PM


You have way too much time on your hands ...


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QUOTE (Vault 10 @ Apr 4 2008, 12:45 PM)
QUOTE (Sumer @ Apr 4 2008, 04:35 PM)
Remember fuel is injected, in a 4-stroke, every two revolutions of the crank, so if you have two engines of the same total size and one has half the cylinders but they're twice as big, and it runs say at 3000 rpm, that's fuel being injected 1500 times a minute. If the smaller one runs at say 8000 rpm fuel is being injected 4000 times a minute. Even if you push it so far to say the larger slower engine will inject twice the fuel (Never happen) that's still less then the faster one by a bit.

Yes, that's why slow engines are more economical. But why would many small cylinders be more economical than few large ones?

For same speed, less fuel. Most people reading this, I predict, are going to have an engine for a relative speed anyway, like a car at 8000rpm, or a tank with 3000rpm, so it works better to generalise and point out that way. There are more complicated ways to go about it, like differeing RPMs, compression, combustion effeciency, the design of the valves themselves, all can drasticly change your fuel economy. But I'm throwing out rules of thumb for people, not full blown text books, I'm too lazy for that.


--------------------
QUOTE
“I believe that the sound of racking the pump of a shotgun is universally recognized as ‘kiss your ass goodbye’."

Proudly Canadian
user posted image
QUOTE ("L3 Communications")
Well...next to Sumer's juggernaut of death, the MCA-7G.
Top
Vault 10
Posted: Apr 4 2008, 06:10 PM


Unregistered









Just what's the prime cause of it? Engine imbalance, better mixture combustion in small volume, something else? Or if it's empirical, any specific example?
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Sumer
Posted: Apr 4 2008, 06:17 PM


You have way too much time on your hands ...


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QUOTE (Vault 10 @ Apr 4 2008, 01:10 PM)
Just what's the prime cause of it? Engine imbalance, better mixture combustion in small volume, something else? Or if it's empirical, any specific example?

It's volume of the fuel. You will always need more fuel (and more air) in a larger cylinder to get enough energy from it to work. There is a minimum energy level for the engine to sustain itself, the larger the moving parts (and more friction) the higher that level, and thus the higher the ammount of fuel and air that needs to be injected to combust.


--------------------
QUOTE
“I believe that the sound of racking the pump of a shotgun is universally recognized as ‘kiss your ass goodbye’."

Proudly Canadian
user posted image
QUOTE ("L3 Communications")
Well...next to Sumer's juggernaut of death, the MCA-7G.
Top
Vault 10
Posted: Apr 4 2008, 06:24 PM


Unregistered









But in a many-cylinders engine of same displacement you need to make work more cylinders, don't you? And the total friction AIUI is higher since there is more total surface.



[Not considering switching cyls off, that's hightech outside the basics].
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Sumer
Posted: Apr 4 2008, 06:29 PM


You have way too much time on your hands ...


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Joined: 10-April 07



Yes, and no. Those do compound the issue for many cylinder engines, but again, volume. I don't know the engineering maths behind it, but I do know, larger cylinders = more fuel used. It's pretty universal.


--------------------
QUOTE
“I believe that the sound of racking the pump of a shotgun is universally recognized as ‘kiss your ass goodbye’."

Proudly Canadian
user posted image
QUOTE ("L3 Communications")
Well...next to Sumer's juggernaut of death, the MCA-7G.
Top
Ghost 2501
Posted: Jul 24 2012, 12:15 PM


11% Armaments Designer


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Joined: 24-July 12



anyone heard of Sleeve Valve 4-stroke engines? (like the Bristol Hercules and Napier Sabre), Diamond Star use 4-stroke Inline 6 or V12 sleeve valve diesels

17 to 32 litres in capacity depending on operation, most trucks will however be sold with 17 to 19 litre V12 engines, which like the Magirus - Deutz engines used Older Iveco and some Tatras are Air Cooled
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VSDrafting
Posted: Jan 25 2013, 06:42 AM


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Are all opposed piston engines sleeve valves? So it'd be an accurate assumption to say they have high oil consumption rates?
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Falls
Posted: Jan 25 2013, 07:15 AM


Swamp Thing


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QUOTE (VSDrafting @ Jan 25 2013, 05:42 AM)
Are all opposed piston engines sleeve valves?

No.
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VSDrafting
Posted: Jan 25 2013, 06:01 PM


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Do you have any examples? The ones I'm finding seem to be two strokes where one piston slides past an intake port at the bottom of the stroke, and the other piston slides past the exhaust port.
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Falls
Posted: Jan 25 2013, 11:03 PM


Swamp Thing


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Joined: 6-June 07



QUOTE (VSDrafting @ Jan 25 2013, 05:01 PM)
Do you have any examples? The ones I'm finding seem to be two strokes where one piston slides past an intake port at the bottom of the stroke, and the other piston slides past the exhaust port.
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