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 Sites that don't Render right in Opera, ...the ongoing saga
Andrew
  Posted: Jun 20 2005, 01:09 PM


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user posted image

I will add to this as I run across them.

Whisky Q&A (Scroll down)

CoolTechZone (Editorial)
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Ducc
Posted: Jun 20 2005, 02:41 PM


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Ah, cool. Thanks.

I don't understand the cooltechzone.com entry. Why doesn't it work in Opera? Even IE displays it the same.

EDIT: The Whisky Q&A website made clear a very interesting error in Opera. Opera is not paying attention to the nested CSS structure. When I stop being lazy, I'll have to mention this to the Opera people. Good find Drew.
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Andrew
Posted: Jun 20 2005, 04:18 PM


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The text in cooltechzone gets cut off on the right hand side. Anyway you get the point, this is just one day and two sites. I run into the same thing with Firefox, thus I use IE (AvantBrowser) most of the time and never have a problem.
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Ducc
Posted: Jun 20 2005, 07:02 PM


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Oh yea, I missed that.

I do see what you mean (and did before), but keep posting your findings. I rarely find real browser flaws; they're usually programming errors.

In the case of the Whisky site, if the web designer would have TESTED his site in all browsers like he SHOULD, this wouldn't have happened. It was a simple matter to make the site look the same as it does in IE or Gecko.

QUOTE
I use IE (AvantBrowser) most of the time and never have a problem

Yea you do. smile.gif *cough*populartechnology*cough*
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Andrew
Posted: Jun 20 2005, 10:17 PM


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It just proves my point as to why I tell people to use IE. biggrin.gif
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Ducc
Posted: Jun 20 2005, 10:56 PM


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What does? Websites that fail? Because by your own admission, IE failed. If you're saying that IE renders most websites as the author intended, I won't disagree with you; most web designers know to test their sites with IE, at least.

That doesn't mean Gecko is a lesser rendering engine. And THAT is my point. It is NOT the case that the browser that renders web pages truest to the author's intent is the same as the browser with the best rendering engine. That's simply false. You can argue that people (your clients) should be using IE so you aren't bothered, but don't pretend that I can't find plenty of examples of IE's shortcomings; shortcomings that neither Gecko nor Opera share.

I don't deny that IE renders more websites as the author intended.

Keep posting the links. It keeps me entertained by practicing web coding. I don't do that much anymore.
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Andrew
Posted: Jun 21 2005, 01:33 PM


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QUOTE
I don't deny that IE renders more websites as the author intended.

Which is all that matters. Any other argument is irrelevant. People don't care except what they see. thumbsup.gif
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Ducc
Posted: Jun 21 2005, 01:38 PM


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QUOTE
Which is all that matters.

All that matters to YOU, a tech support guy. For all other reasons, you're absolutely wrong. To stay with IE is to move backwards in web technology and standardization. The more people that use FF or Opera, the better websites will perform in the long run.

I don't care about the short term, and you do. That's fine. Just understand where you stand so that you don't inadvertently push your opinions on those of us who have no use for your ideology.
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Andrew
Posted: Jun 21 2005, 04:33 PM


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All that matters to anyone who is not a web developer or an idealist. It is not my opinion but an opinion shared by the overwhelming majority of average users. No one cares about the backend issues of anything except web developers. These are simple facts. I learned along time ago it is useless trying to convince people why something DOES NOT work. They don't care and for good reason. If they go to a site and it renders incorrectly no one cares EXCEPT web developers, FF evangelists and idealists. Don't get me wrong I understand full well why things don't work but it is not my place to fix the problem of some 15% of websites. If you want to waste your time trying to fixing the problem have fun. Instead I choose to give people a real solution to their problems, use IE. Works everytime BTW. wink.gif

On the other hand I choose to test my pages in all three browsers but that is just me. shrug.gif I also attempt to make my pages standards compliant. For the most part I think this is a good thing, if the standards make sense. But people don't care. They have their own lives to deal with and when they use the internet it needs to just work period. They really don't care how, why or why not. The sooner people understand this the better off everyone will be. ohyeah.gif
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Ducc
Posted: Jun 21 2005, 05:31 PM


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QUOTE
Works every time BTW

Dude, populartechnology.net didn't even work. You had to get help from me to fix it, because of a bug in IE! Are you pretending to ignore this? Don’t get me started on CSS issues, as you have clearly ignored before.

QUOTE
I choose to give people a real solution to their problems

Wrong. You choose to give people a QUICK fix for their problems. You choose to give people a compromise: use a browser that has poor features and a technologically inferior rendering engine, in exchange for the most minimal display problems. That's fine for the tech that has to listen to complaints all day. It's NOT fine for me; not as a web designer, but rather as a person that hates to see crap being used instead of putting in some effort to get a really solid web language utilized. You see, I compromise when I use Opera as well; but MY compromise is exchanging the few rendering problems I have, with the current trend in web design; better quality programming. I value standards. I see their value. You say you believe as such, but your actions speak otherwise. And yet I can't blame you; I wouldn’t want to hear complaints all day (as you say) either. I suspect you're blowing it out of proportion, but if you really do get hassled beyond your limit, by all means recommend IE. But have no illusions about what you are really doing.

In any case, if this labels me as an "idealist", so be it. It's working. Web design is getting better.
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