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 E-Cigarettes
Jifferz
Posted: Mar 7 2010, 09:07 AM


Look my face got squished!


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Chances are, no one here has heard of these. I really wouldn't be surprised. Otherwise, knowlege of them must be very limited to seeing a Smoking Everywhere kiosk in your local mall. That being said, I will begin the discussion by explaining what these are.

An electronic cigarette (from here refered to as a PV [personal vaporizer]) is a battery powered device designed to be a safeR alternative to smoking traditional cigarettes (henceforth refered to as analogs). The lithium ion battery charges an atomizer which vaporizes the liquid held in the cartrige which is then inhaled by the user. As can be seen, these are 3 piece devices (some are only 2, when the cartrige and atomizer are one piece, this is known as a cartomizer). Thousands of people now use these devices, and they are growing in popularity. In fact, the Electronic Cigarette Forum is the secondest fastest growing forum on the web right now.

There is, of course, controversy around PV's. Big tobacco and Big pharma and the FDA all want a piece of the action. Either Phillip Morris or RJ Reynolds (I can't remember which) has a rumor flying that they want to design one of their own. Big pharma wants to see them classified as a medication as a smoking cessation product. The FDA just wants to be involved with everything. It is widely recognized that Big tobacco and Big pharma DO work together to keep people smoking and keep buying cessation products that do not work (gum, patch, chantix, etc).

The FDA claims the devices are unsafe and therefore should be banned. Of course, under the table they want them legal but regulated by them. They even claim one particular sample of liquid they tested contained diethylene glycol. Of course, that caused a whole lotta hype for them as diethylene glycol is toxic to humans, it's in antifreeze. This one lone cartrige was from a chinese supplier. Other cartriges from them did not have diethylene glycol. The liquid (or juice) typically contains propylene glycol and/or vegetable glycerin, water, flavoring, and nicotine.

Nicotine being said, it's understandable something with nicotine has nitrosamines, correct? Well, the FDA felt it appropriate in their research to label PV's as further unsafe due to nitrosamines and 4 known carcinogens being in the liquid.

Well, they didn't release the results of just how much there was, but another test done by another researcher did. They found that any nitrosamine or carcinogen in e-juice was at the trace levels (about 1100 times LESS than any of the 59 known carcinogens in analogs). Kinda figures the FDA would leave THAT out.

All of this being said, one would expect the majority of people to be on the side of electronic cigarettes. The vapor they produce feels like smoking, they satisfy nicotine addiction, they have no offensive odor, no second hand smoke as there is NO smoke, and they are safeR than analogs. Yet, here's one other big pro AND con to them: they have tastey flavors.

THINK OF THE CHILDREN. The FDA and other non smoking organizations call. They seem to think that fruit and candy flavors will attract to minors to smoking analogs... :unsure: Well, why would someone choose to smoke after using one of these? I know I didn't. Plus, these have an age restriction on them as well by ALL suppliers I have seen online. And there's the other big thing, you can really only find reliable ones online (Smoking Everywhere in the mall rips you off).

Now, all of this taken into consideration, how do you all feel about this product as a smoking alternative? Would you mind someone doing it around you based on the "looks like smoking" bias, regardless of if you could smell nothing more than slight odor of the flavor they are vaping (say they are vaping grape, would you mind smelling that?).

I am a PV user and successfully quit analogs the first day I had my PV, so I may be a little bias myself. However, I wanted to get an idea on how people who are uninvolved in PV's to begin with feel about these when first introduced to them.

Discuss.
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Axel
Posted: Mar 7 2010, 05:32 PM


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If there's no smoke I'm for it. I generally don't care what people do to themselves.
A bonus goes out to all of the children who do get into it. Nothing is cooler than
smoking and not having bad breath.
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Skwid
Posted: Mar 25 2010, 08:31 PM


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There's two sides here, from my standpoint.

#1 - as a former smoker I'm all for this. With no smoke, smell, etc out there it's definitely something I'd rather see shoved into someone's mouth than an indian reserve stick of tobacco that makes me now want to hurl.

#2 - despite the fact that there's still an age restriction and that it's 'safer', it's still likely potentially lethal...meaning it's a nicer way of killing yourself slowly. That said, if someone's going to smoke, they're going to smoke regardless...however, they might be more apt to enjoy it after the first one if it tastes like rasberries.
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Jifferz
Posted: Mar 26 2010, 10:32 AM


Look my face got squished!


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QUOTE (Skwid @ Mar 25 2010, 08:31 PM)

#2 - despite the fact that there's still an age restriction and that it's 'safer', it's still likely potentially lethal...meaning it's a nicer way of killing yourself slowly. That said, if someone's going to smoke, they're going to smoke regardless...however, they might be more apt to enjoy it after the first one if it tastes like rasberries.

This is actually a very valid point. Yes, it is a fact that nicotine is in this and nicotine itself IS a harmful substance (primarily, it CAN [not will, can] cause cardiovascular disease). Also, no one can be sure as to the effects of long term exposure to INHALING propylene glycol. Yes, it is a popular food/drink additive, and yes, it is the primary ingredient in commercial fog machines, but even special effects workers do not have long term exposure (say all day every day for 20+ years) to INHALING it. For all anyone knows, there are unknown dangers to the concept of e-cigs.

Now, on the topic of nicotine, there was a study done by a Dr. Eissenburg that found the e-cig was as effective at nicotine delivery as smoking an unlit cigarette. This was quickly rebuffed when members of a online e-cig community (no, I wasn't one of them) contacted Eissenburg and told him to try different models than the ones he used in his testing. Later, he found that those models DID give nicotine to the user, but at a FAR less level than a tobacco cigarette would. Shortly after this, a Dr. Siegel commented about how it seems a nicotine addiction is satisfied by far less nicotine than anyone would have thought, and that the "hand-to-mouth and puffing" action alongside the (supposively low) nicotine administration of e-cigs makes it a very logical altnerative to smoking traditional cigarettes.

Dr. Siegel also later claims that "it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the e-cig is safer than a traditional cigarette". This, I believe, is based on the 4,000+ chemicals in a cigarette compared to the 5-7 chemicals in an electronic cigarette (one being artificial flavors, one being water).


Also, the rasberry flavor I hear is quite delicious. Right now I have Atomic Cinnacide, which is just like the Fireball candy.
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THE_REAL_PEEK
Posted: Mar 26 2010, 10:33 PM


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I just see them as a bit of a novelty item. I mean everyone I know who's used them quickly went back to smoking whatever they did before (mainly rollies)

This post has been edited by THE_REAL_PEEK on Mar 26 2010, 10:34 PM
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Skwid
Posted: Mar 27 2010, 09:13 AM


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QUOTE (Jifferz @ Mar 26 2010, 10:32 AM)
Now, on the topic of nicotine, there was a study done by a Dr. Eissenburg that found the e-cig was as effective at nicotine delivery as smoking an unlit cigarette. This was quickly rebuffed when members of a online e-cig community (no, I wasn't one of them) contacted Eissenburg and told him to try different models than the ones he used in his testing. Later, he found that those models DID give nicotine to the user, but at a FAR less level than a tobacco cigarette would. Shortly after this, a Dr. Siegel commented about how it seems a nicotine addiction is satisfied by far less nicotine than anyone would have thought, and that the "hand-to-mouth and puffing" action alongside the (supposively low) nicotine administration of e-cigs makes it a very logical altnerative to smoking traditional cigarettes.

This isn't news. It's no secret that a couple sips of coffee takes away the caffeine fit, or that a couple drags off a smoke will curb your nicotine craving. Boredom, habit and 'just because' is the main reason people end up smoking the whole cig.

This is why part of the task when trying to quit is to find something else to distract you. Many times, as long as you're in the middle of something you're enjoying, you won't bother stopping for that smoke.
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Jifferz
Posted: Mar 27 2010, 12:56 PM


Look my face got squished!


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QUOTE (THE_REAL_PEEK @ Mar 26 2010, 10:33 PM)
I just see them as a bit of a novelty item. I mean everyone I know who's used them quickly went back to smoking whatever they did before (mainly rollies)

This could be due to the models they purchased. There are A LOT of subpar models out there. Smoking Everywhere kiosks at the mall, for example, sell shit models that are WAY overpriced.

Most of the people I know who went to an e-cig hasn't looked back on traditional cigarettes.

Skwid - you are quite right. However, a lot of people (myself included) need something other than whatever I'm doing, even if it is something I enjoy. My e-cig is perfect for that. I can take it everywhere and use it most anywhere. It's really quite great to have. And with how much cheaper it is, I doubt I'll stop anytime soon. Though I may cut down on the nicotine content until 0, just so I have no addiction anymore. :thumbsup:
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Axel
Posted: Mar 27 2010, 01:39 PM


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How does it feel to be subhuman with your silly addictions?
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Jifferz
Posted: Mar 27 2010, 10:18 PM


Look my face got squished!


Group: Tomato Crusados Power Member
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Of the various things I had addictions to two years ago, I'll stick with nicotine over any of them. ^_^

Detox and rehab weren't fun. :nono:

I also prefer the term super human over subhuman. :thumbsup:

EDIT: changed the three to two... Although that entire period is kind of a blur, so I guess it was an easy mistake. :rofl:

This post has been edited by Jifferz on Mar 27 2010, 10:20 PM
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Axel
Posted: Mar 28 2010, 06:47 AM


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Ah, so you've went up from sub- to semihuman. :p
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Jifferz
Posted: Mar 28 2010, 10:47 AM


Look my face got squished!


Group: Tomato Crusados Power Member
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Progress is progress. ^_^
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El Stormo
Posted: Aug 18 2010, 02:40 AM


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I'm all for letting retards kill themselves slowly, it's good for the gene pool, and if those things don't emit smoke, there's no passive smoking, and so they don't harm non-smokers.

However, I would advocate to place them, and all 'regular' smokers on a list that removes all their entitlement to life insurance claims, and (especially!) donor organs if the organ failure is caused by smoking, same way I'd deny liver transplants to chronic boozers.
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