Title: Tactics: Dwarfs
Description: Army Specific Tactics
Kiljaeden - September 3, 2004 12:50 AM (GMT)
This is the Topic on fighting Dwarfs.
Strategies are appreciated.
Worloch - September 3, 2004 02:05 PM (GMT)
Ok, I'm new, but Dwarves, Skaven and Lizardmen are the armies I'm most likely to be facing often.
It occurs to me right away, that spirit hosts and banshees vs dwarves aren't that great an idea. If they know you are going to be playing with etheral troops, they will most likely put the rune on their artillery that makes it magic.
Bat swarms may be a better screening option.
I think Fell Bats, Dire Wolves, and Ghouls will be excellent flankers due to their high speed. I would use them to try to take out small units of with ranged weaponry, or hopefully war machine crews.
Summon ghouls, bats and wolves works well, I'm told, vs war machines as well.
It seems to me the Dwarves have quite a few options to shut down the magic phase, with their +2 dispel dice, their runesmiths and runelords, and their Master rune of blance, rune of dispelling and rune of spelleating.
Dwarves basic leadership is 9, meaning that fear will have little effect if you don't win the combat AND outnumber. Big blocks of skellies with a thrall seem like a good idea. Combined with a flank attack by one of your more mauneverable units, you stand a good chance of doing some damage and running them down. Dwarves run slow.
Dwarves are a very slow army, so trying to capitilize on that is a good idea. If you have good terrain, you will probably be able to dictate when and where the combats will occur. This is a good thing.
That's all I have right now. Like I said, I'm new and Dwarves will be one of my main opponents, so any other tactical advice would be great.
LordCypress - September 3, 2004 02:38 PM (GMT)
Well most Dwarven generals love their artillary. It doesn't happen all that often that you see a Dwarven army with no artillary. I always bring Strigoi or Von Carstein against Dwarfs. Summoning creatures behind their artillary crews is just simply annoying for the enemy. I've had much success in summoning three units of Ghouls behind dwarves. Ghouls can very easily go one on one against Dwarven artillary crews.
Oh and on a side note. TAKE OUT THE DAMNED GOBLIN HEWER FIRST CHANCE YOU GET. This thing will tear apart your unarmoured troops like a fat kid all over a blue smartie.
Innocent_Man - January 10, 2005 02:33 PM (GMT)
I hate dwarves. I've lost to Dwarves far more times than to any other army.
I know that dwarves have runic artillery so ethereals are useless. I know that dwarves have strong infintary. I know that a ghoul is stronger than a dwarven artillery crew. I know that when fightning an opponent u should try to win. But plz post some/any tactics/tips/whatever HOW to do it. U post that i should try to engage artillery with ghouls? Hell, even without your advices ive tried but even summon ghouls proves ineffective due to organ gun and mobile thunderers. Post HOW to do it.
So if anyone knows any tactics/tips/hints plaese post em.
Sorry but im frustrated and hearing a word "dwarf" makes me mad.
Kaptain Von - January 12, 2005 10:00 AM (GMT)
You deal with artillery like this - stack your Summonings.
One Vampire summons one unit of three Ghouls, which get blown to kingdom come.
Two Vampires summon two units of three Ghouls, of which one gets blown to kingdom come by the Organ Gun and the other gets blown to kingdom come by the Thunderers.
THREE Vampires... now you're talking.
Bring your Summoned units on close together, one behind the other. The one at the back shouldn't get too badly beaten up and will be able to charge a war machine. Doesn't work so well againt Dwarfs as it does other armies - it's that pesky Flame Cannon that can take down all three units in one go if it's lucky - but if you've already got the Flame Cannon threatened with Fell Bats...
Priority targets against Dwarfs are the war machines, Runesmiths, and then the token combat unit - it's normally Ironbreakers or Slayers, sometimes Hammerers, and it'll probably cost nigh-on seven hundred points. It'll be nigh-on invincible but if you hit it three ways at once - Dire Wolves on the flank, and they got there because you kept the Dwarf shooting occupied with your Summonings and flyers for a few turns, plus a nice Black Knight unit in the front and what's left of your Ghouls in the back, and that should crack it.
The one thing you shouldn't do is go after the missile infantry. I know they're powerful. I know they're annoying. They also have surprisingly good armour, are frequently deployed on a hill, come as MSU, include a unit of Thunderers which WILL get off a short-range volley against you if you're closing to face them, and have Slayers nearby to defend them, or even to stand in front of them and laugh at you. So don't do it. You'll get more VPs from taking down isolated war machines, wandering Runesmiths and the token combat unit. Trust me on this one.
Marine - January 12, 2005 03:23 PM (GMT)
Against the war machines you can also try to raise units behind them, when they're charged by some skells they'll probably go down.
Baron Kreig - January 23, 2006 10:25 AM (GMT)
Any one got to say anyting about the new dwarf armybook, if i'm not mistaken I believe that the dwarf lords have more wargear points and some new runes eg. allowing them to be immune to the killing blow...The Anvil of Doom etc... and the annyoing entrance of effective egineers in war machine crews...
Is they're any new hints or tips besides previously noted tactics? eg dealing with IMBA oathstone units?
N.I.B. - January 23, 2006 03:03 PM (GMT)
I have something to say, ITíS BETTER TO BURN OUT THAN FADE AWAY! Ö Sorry about that, had a Highlander flashback :wub:
Seriously, the basic raise/flank should still work, just not as good as before. Stay away from Dwarf lords, they can now be nigh impossible to kill. Stick 25 Zombies in there while you take care of the rest of the army instead.
War machines are now better and more reliable, crew can now more often chase off Fell Bats, Wolves and Ghouls. The Anvilís ability to give extra charges isnít at dangerous as the Wrath&Ruin, halving movement and taking away flying. VC armies that depend on huge point sink cavalry hammers are now at a serious disadvantage over Anvil armies. The Gyrocopter can soon be seen in every Dwarf army, as it can redirect, march block, flee and rally automatically to move again. Hordes should do better. Expect Miners to arrive in the second turn and be able to charge everything within 12Ē from a table edge.
Oathstones are regular equipment, so the Dwarf player must tell you it a character has it as he deploys it with itís unit.
Dwarfs can now have more immune to fear units at a cheaper cost. So expect harder fought games. Dwarfs now have more toys, but they are still paying dearly for them.
Assur - January 23, 2006 06:07 PM (GMT)
1. As crews cannot now declare a tactical flee this gives us a great opporutnity to cause some panic tests or free overruns. Otherwise they are much more dangerous. But fear-outnumber still works.. Oh and I think wolves/bats will do the trick faster and better than ghouls (unless you're playing strigoi)
2. Anvil of Doom - with its ability to move dwarfs better stay away from table edges, unless you want that flank charge with a unit of miners... anvil can also unleash a thunderbolt that slowes enemy unit's movement by half so, if you have see a vulnerable target, make sure that two units will be able to get it.
Dwarf Lords may be strong, but I believe that the time of Anvils of Doom has come. this means that runelords will have ta stay behind and our vampires won't see any really challenging opponents in the main dwarven battle line.
Also remember that Anvil's power can't be used while it's in CC. even 8 zombies should do the trick for one turn.
3.Don't count on fear-outnumber on main dwarven units. They have too many runes and special abilities to make that count. So make sure that thane-bsb is dead as soon as possible so that dwarfs at least won't reroll break tests.
rabbit - January 24, 2006 10:55 PM (GMT)
I'm new to warhammer, and thus also these boards, so hi. I'm pretty much only fighting dwarfs right now, as that is my roommate's army...and I've been purusing forums all day trying to get some strategy. :D My boyfriend just taught both of us how to play and the roomie has been kicking both of our butts...
So anyway, question, for you more experienced players: pretty much the strategy I see for fighting dwarfs with any army is get around on their flank and for undead specifically to outnumber them like crazy. The flanking is sort of impossible, though, because he sets his army up sort of in an arc around the corner of the table and then refuses to move anything (no marching, no nothing...just sits and shoots at us until we get close). It should be a chump way to play, I'd think, and not very successful...but we've been having a hard time figuring out any way to handle this besides marching towards him, since its not like we can shoot back, and it just leads to getting shot apart on the way there and getting flanked by Ironbreakers. As for the outnumbering, lets just say that would be fine if I could ever manage to cast like...anything. The frequency with which I roll double 1s is astounding.
Anyway, so any thoughts on how to deal with the 'I'll just sit here until you walk towards me' method of play? I'm thinking I might just set up out of shooting range and raise units of skeletons so I end up with more points than him. :-)
darknesseternal - January 25, 2006 04:23 AM (GMT)
Staying out of range and raising new units on your side would definitely work, but would result in a pretty damn dull game. Though I do understand with him deploying in a corner with a refused flank and not budging at all doesn't really make the game much fun for yourself either (been there before <_< )
Without knowing what you are fielding it's hard to give advice, but one idea would be to take a large unit of Black Knights and use them to punch through his lines or on a flank, and then he will have to worry about them coming back on the board right behind his lines. Also, move forward but use invoke to raise behind his lines and really give him something to worry about there. Or invoke in front of his lines and use the invoked units to keep him busy and screen the rest of your army as you move forward.
N.I.B. - January 25, 2006 10:46 AM (GMT)
|QUOTE (rabbit @ Jan 24 2006, 10:55 PM)|
| Anyway, so any thoughts on how to deal with the 'I'll just sit here until you walk towards me' method of play? I'm thinking I might just set up out of shooting range and raise units of skeletons so I end up with more points than him. :-) |
Sure. But that sounds like more of a problem with a lazy opponent than a need for tactics. You could answer with the same methods like you suggest, stay out of shooting, raise, contest his quarter and claim 2-3 quarters of your own for a draw or a minor victory. Boring as hell, but after a few games of the same treatment, maybe the lame boy will be willing to mix if up a little.
After all, thereís nothing that forces you to meet him on his terms. Let him hug his corner.
I think from now on weíll see a lot more of mobile Dwarf armies though, backed up by moderate shooting. With the new Hammerers, cheap Rune of Courage, Oathsthones, the ability to take more than one unit of Slayers etc, thereís less need to deploy in the traditional Dwarf corner.
MortisLegion - February 5, 2006 12:03 PM (GMT)
Had a 1000 pt game against dwarves today and I ran my Black knights with the banner of the barrows straight at his pipe/organ gun??? (not sure what it was), Got hit on the first turn of shooting, didn't lose many, maybe 2 out of 9. Charged in the next turn and took them out, then turned around and took the canon crew out as well. He only hit one of my black knights with his cannon which was lucky I guess, but I found a full tilt charge with the black knights to be very effective against his war machines.
Used a Lahmian thrall with innocence lost and the sword of battle in a unit of 20 skeles with full command and tried to take on his longbeards, which would have been more successful if I could have managed to summon skeles.
Took out his other unit of dwarves with another skele unit of the same amount without much trouble at all. I lost the thrall in a challenge against his Thane who had some rune that allowed him to increase his strength by double if I had a model attacking him with a strength of 5 or more, (bloody dang nabbit!)
I guess I'd have to consider the attack by his two war machines to have failed and that I was lucky, but would certainly consider a balls to the wall approach against them again with my black knights. A different approach, or more luck with the skeles against the longbeards would have been desireable.
Needed to get my rod of flaming death off as well, which I didn't utilise to it's full potential when weighting up a possible charge with the remaining black knights or attacking with the rod.
N.I.B. - February 6, 2006 07:24 AM (GMT)
Well an Organ Gun should take out some 3 BKís each turn on average, but the mistake some less skilful Dwarf players often do is to not concentrate fire. He should point his cannon against your knights too, and deploy it out if itís way to make you split your forces, always a good tactic with cannons, especially against VC.
Rod of Flaming Death wouldnít be my first choice against a whole army that has T4, good armour saves and Ld 9+ and whereof many can be immune to panic (Longbeards and 6Ē). On the few occasions where Iíve had it against Dwarfs Iíve always targeted war machines.
Volkmir - September 17, 2006 12:27 PM (GMT)
Great exploit on the new rule book agianst the war machines. The new pit of shades rocks since now it completely destroy the warmachine. This is because now they have to take an I test and if they fail they instantly die now warmachines have I 0 meaning instant death. Also good for the low I units that the dwarfs have.
N.I.B. - September 18, 2006 06:52 AM (GMT)
|QUOTE (Volkmir @ Sep 17 2006, 12:27 PM)|
| The new pit of shades rocks since now it completely destroy the warmachine. |
Since Vampire Counts can't take Lore of Shadows, it's a moot point.
Schnimon - September 18, 2006 04:37 PM (GMT)
Yeah our tactics against dwarfs haven't really changed much though at least the entrenchment rule is much weaker allowing dogs and ghouls to be effective again.
Lord Firmshaft - November 15, 2006 10:02 PM (GMT)
i think this is a very tough match up for undead, i play both armies so i can see this from both sides. to start off with they can shut down most of the magic phase so we wont be raising to often and then it will be more to replace rather than setting up multiple attack angles. then their shooting will hurt us no matter what with +1 bs thunderers to runes up war machines to the organ gun that can destroy a unit of knights in one go. the lords and thanes can stand up to vampires very well, might not kill them but they will tie them up enough. the basic warriors are ld 9, ws 4 t4 3+ save troops in comabt, fear, terror and banshee screams wont work well and even wights will be on evens aganst them. the elite troops are even harder and can have runic standards which the common ones are immune to fear/terror or to double the units strength, both make winning with fear very hard.
the ways to beat it is to hit hard and fast in one place as they can be very slow to react - set up central then move down one flank and pick on half the army, tie up the missile units with etheral and flying troops. the biggest thing to kill is the bsb as most dwarf armies use that as the anchor to hold the line as they are so slow to run and if they get away slow to get back in possition.
avoid the lords like hte plauge, it may be bad fluff for a blood dragon to run away from that fight but you will be on the wrong side if its kitted right. if the lord is on a shieldbearer its immune to killing blow so the wights are in trouble as well.
thats my little bit for now, i dont want to give it all away, my dwarf mates will take my beer away from me ;)
Kruger - February 26, 2008 12:03 AM (GMT)
your can bet on that Firmshaft! ^_^
Well I can only say movement and flanking ^_^
Some dire wolves in the right moment can do the trick with a unit of 30 skellies in front ..Dwarf lose combat and whoops of you go with A U T O B R E A K I N G ...
You just have to get in to combat and win hehe thats the onlyyyy problem...