If a lord takes MM then it will give him 5 wounds

now if you look on page 95(the rule book) under characters and light of sight
it says "Characters on foot who have 5 or more wounds in their origional profile also have to follow the normal rules for arc of sight. This is because these characters are so MASSIVE and cumbersome."

1st question does this apply to a lord with mm?

2nd question does this make him an un-elegible target for killing blow as he is not man sized because he has only a 90 degree sight arc and not the normal 360

thanks for all and any replies

I think you overread original. That means without items, bloodlines, spells, etc etc.

Keen is right, he is still a normal character in every sense.

I just wish they'd change Massive Monstrosity to +1 Toughness instead. We Strigoi deserve that to reflect our fluff, and to add diversity to our bloodline powers.

1T still would be useless.....

They should make some bloodline where to character is a monster. Ogre sized, cannot join units, +2 WS, 1+S, +1T, +1A. Or something like that :P (and cannot be general ofc)

And why would a monster on a larger base suddenly have +2WS? Plus with what you suggested, that unit itself would cost heaps of points. My point here is on the bloodline in question. Not new units/characters.

My suggestion for MM is purely for diversity in the bloodline powers.

We already have Curse which gives regeneration. The current MM is only +1W which loses out to Curse by far, but only costs 5 points less. See with Curse, there is a 50% chance of keeping a wound. Thus, it is effectively an extra wound in its own right. Thus a vampire with 4 wounds, could potentially and statistically have 6 wounds. An extra advantage of regeneration is that it CAN protect you from Killing Blow. Thus when you compare Curse with MM, the later is just so over priced.

Now we already have a wound related bloodline power (Curse of the Revenance), so for diversity sake, give us +1 T. Instead of having 1 more wound for being able to take more damage, we are tougher and able to withstand more damage. We can heal our wounds with IoN anyway, so +1 T would be more valuable to us, and thus befitting the 50 points we pay for it.

The only place where +1 wound would be better is if someone out there successfully causes enough damage to negate all our wounds at once. Then the +1 wound might have saved us. However, this is a very rare case. At the same time, if we had 6 Toughness, the chances of that happening becomes even more rare. And we can STILL heal with IoN.

Plus fluff wise, Strigoi are supposed to be tough and hard. Surviving on bare minimum, in extreme conditions. It conjures up a hardy creature who's stubborness to succumb to death makes it stronger. That feels like +1 Toughness. Normal wounds, but leathery and scarred skin that proved it has been through a lot and can take a lot before it hurts him. It would take the same amount of damage to kill a Strigoi, except its harder to damage this Strigoi... cause he is one tough git, relentless. We are supposed to be the toughest of the vampires. We've been through so much... without armor, without clothing, against the elements... just our bare leather.

+1 Wounds feels like a Strigoi well fed. More volume to his body. A cut is still a cut that hurts him, but takes more cuts to kill him. Makes him just feel bigger but just as soft.

How bout:
Massive monstrosity 100p
+1s +1t +1w +1a

+1 Toughness items/powers are a very rare thing in the Warhammer World and come a premium.

Dark Elves have one that grants +1 wound as well for 100pts. But that removes the whole of their magic allowance and your also talking upgrading T3 to T4.

Chaos has one for mundane attacks only for 40pts.

The only straight up one I can think of is the Dwarf one and that comes a whooping 75pts. And that comes under the same circumstances of upgrading T5 to T6.

We couldn't have another power that expensive.

I always thought it doesnt!

Q. Regeneration – can a model slain by another
model with the Killing Blow ability that rolls a
6 on its roll to wound regenerate?

A. You cannot regenerate a wound caused by a
Killing Blow. Note that for the purpose of
combat resolution, use the remaining wounds of
a model slain by Killing Blow.


from anual 2003.

Oops, my mistake. I didn't know there was a correction in that annual.

Thanks for pointing it out to me CastorVonBiberchen

Hmm.. this effectively makes the Blood Dragon a better combatant than us. In the past my assumptions were that we had Regen as a better defence, and they had Killing Blow as a better offense.... now... we lose... :( :angry: :unsure:

thats alright my lord :D

KILLING BLOW CANNOT BE SAVE BY REGENARTION!!!
pg 112

"rolls a 6 when rolling to wound, he slays his oppenent without recourse to a saving throw, apart from ward saves"

Now think litrilly how can something with no head regenerate?????

Simple... the head rolls around the ground for a few seconds, then regenerates a body... :P

+ 1 toughness isnt useless you can then walk in front of a cannon with out instant kill and a giant unless he gets eat or pick up and stuff down is pants then your screwed viva la blood dragons

I don't see what you mean, robnixon.
Or the person in quwstion just gets its head and puts it back on. I thought killing blow could mean other things than cutting of a head, like piercing the hearth etc.

I think that I should give you +1 thoughness but cost ssomthing like 40-45 pts.

Belakith

Why not have it give a scaly skin save?
In my opinion, strigoi should come with one for free.

They already come with a ward save, which is also some kind of save.

Yeah, but it could be a better save.

5+ Ward Save costs 30 pts. We get it for free since we can't buy one. And that is fair! He still costs the same as any other Vampire from other bloodline.

massive monstrosity is fine how it is, +1t would be ridiculously good, i think +1W is fare enough but an extra toughness would make strigoi cheesy IMO...

IMO that is a good idea! It would be good to have another good option to toll-up a Strigoi. And that would be one.
Ummm... i thought that i can regenerate after a killing blow... Like u know- one cuts my head off and then it either grows back or just that scar on my neck is healed... So regeneration is much worse than a ward save (fire negates it and u can be killing blowed).

Being hit by a Stone Thrower what yoou really need is Regeneration. A failed Ward often means un-undead Vampire. The Strigoi is generally a machine to rip units apart, not characters (one has Blood Dragons for that), so he normally does't care about Killing Blows because when he enters a combat it will be most likely over in a turn.

As for flaming attacks use tactically-wise yor troops for the "Look out.." and you will rarely face such a problem.

That power would cost 150+ pts.

I think, just to add some interesting flavor, change the rules slightly and avoid confusion that Massive Monstrosity causes, and simply put in the bloodline power that if a lord takes it, he's put on a monster base (40x40mm) and gets all the stuff that goes along with that, like rank negation, 90 arc of sight, no more skirmishy movement with marching, immune to killing blow, etc.

If he was to ignore ranks he would need to at least have a unit strength of 5, which would be over the top.

Well, like I said, the lord would have 5 wounds, thus if he were a monster, would give him 5 unit str.

I mean the greater deamons which are on the bigger bases cancel ranks because they have us of >= 5 right?

Can't remember what the unit str of the slann is, but I think it is around 5, so can't he cancel ranks (although why you would ever use him that way, no one may never know :P)


But mainly he's a monster, and all monsters with 5 or greater wounds can negate ranks. So a lord with Massive Monstrosity certainly would be rather well, monsterous.

Just a thought anyways, just add in bat form and you have a cool vampire greater demon :D

that would be cheeeeeeeesssssssss because their left the hole killing blow thing and as said before he would not be on a bigger base. +1 TO i think would be a fine thing but a cannon would still kill you if u were standing right infront of it. lets see st10 d6 wos you'll die if you had the +1 To most of the time however the +1 WO means u would have to have bad luck to kill in 1 shot and then next turn heal for 3 wos after u chage the cannon.

Even when shooting a normal vampire lord with a cannonnyou need to roll at least a 4 becauuse otherwise he/she will survive. The additional wound only changes the odds, but not by very much.

Let me refresh this topic.
What if Massive Monstrosity Strigoi bloodline power would improve your ward save increasing it to 4+? For 50pts it wouldn't be too uber (i hate word "cheesy") since a Strigoi vampire has a 5+ save already. It would increase the Strigoi's toughness since that ward save he gets is already explained as a "great resilience".
EDIT: And in the case of thralls it would mean a 5+ward (hmm maybe 4+ as well?)
Now let's make Curse 50pts and we get a Strigoi ring! Haha ok, just joking.
So what do you think?

I believe that it just might make him too powerful. Don't get me wrong I love the idea. I just think that it would be next to impossible to drum any support for it. I've always invisioned Massive Monstrosity as something a little different however. I was always hoping Games Workshop would come out with a really big Vampire Strigoi Lord that fits on a Ogre size base. Now that would be sweet. Even an orc size base would be ok too. I don't know the wording Massive Monstrosity just doesn't cut it when the model's actual size and base size doesn't change.

Yes, u're right that a massive monstrosity for a Strigoi, who is a mass of muscles already, should be somehow visible.
But that wouldn't make him too powerful. Many lords with S&T5 can take a 4+ward and that's nothing that scary. Even more, a Strigoi vampire can't take GW in addition to that 4+ protection. Right now we can have a regeneration ability which isn't all that worse.
But yes, we should think about something more original... i've just focused on "balance".

Unless you play your strigoy as a flying circus, or, like me, in the endbook list where you have a lot of living stuff.
+1W can make the difference when you are affected by CR, where Regeneration cannot help out.
"THEN" you can heal up with IoN

Furthermore being "just" 50pts it allows you Iron Sinew and Eternal Hatred combo.