I'm already in the process of constructing it. I'm curious how useful skeletons would be with great weapons or javs. I mean.. I've never taken spears because I was never impressed with Skeletons' offensive capabilities.. but having more strength can change that. On the other hand.. Javs give undead some ranged weaponry with no to hit modifiers which is nice with their poor BS.

Lastly, Simulacra vs Tomb Stalker.. what do you guys think?

The army of the cairns looks quite alright, those simulacra's are very nice, not to sure about the glooms though they dont appear very effective to me so far but ive only looked at the list once or twice quickly.

As for great weapons on skeles it will work if you can get hellish vigour on them if not its not going to be very effective due to the low WS.

Javelins might get you 1 or 2 kills which might justify their points worth sometimes

Luckily.. our group is leniant on the models. Basically the front rank represents what the rest of the unit has. SO I suppose just for fun I can model about 5 great weapons and javs.

I suppose the Great weapons could be ok, but they would be easily shot down by archers. The Silmucra are cool, but will eventually die if not healed by IoN.

The Barrow Kings seem really cool, having one or two of those seems a good idea, as you need fewer Shadow Druids to back up the formidable casting ability of Kemmeler.

Normal light armoured skeletons as anchors, the Tomb Stalkers, Simulcra, Winged Nightmares and Barrow Kings then used to flank.

Ghosts and Glooms seem pretty diabolical. :angry:

I've played one game with them so far using the rules straight out of WD. I used the following army:

Army of the Cairns

Kemmler (General) = 550

Krell (mandatory) = 190

Barrow King (mandatory) - HA, GW, Chariot, Sky Chariot = 150

20 Skeletons - Sh, FC = 165
20 Skeletons - Sh, S + M = 155
20 Skeletons - Sh, S + M = 155
3 Simulacra = 195
3 Simulacra = 195
Ghost = 60

18 Barrow Guards - HA, GW, FC = 300
Tomb Stalker = 45
Tomb Stalker = 45
Tomb Stalker = 45

Totals = 890 + 925 + 435 + 0 = 2250

I played against a pretty tough WE list with an ancient, treeman, BSB, and lots of forest spirity type troops. I got rocked but mainly due to abysmal rolling and a few dubious moves. The flying chariot charged a unit of treekin, got eternal vigour on it, and proceeded to inflict one whole wound thanks to abysmal dice ... the treekin hit with 5 of 6 return attacks and wounded with 5 of 6 return attacks to kill him :S . The ghost spending the entire game maneuvering to charge a unit of glade riders only to phase out the turn it was able to charge. The list goes on.

Overall, I would say the army is quite fun but not a powerhouse due to the extreme character restrictions.

Hmm.. so I see everyone sticks to the tried and true HW and Shield for the skellies. Do Jav skels count has Hw+shield in close combat?

Also, can Lore of the Lichmaster raise more glooms in a unit (ofcourse not past it's starting size)?

If so, I might consider taking some.

I might take a few ghosts.. just gotta live life on the edge sometimes.

Since the jav is a missile weapon they will still have a hand weapon to use in close combat so they will be able to get the HW+Shield bonus in hth.

Excellent... I will most definitely take a squad of Javs.

Invocation of the Lichemaster restores wounds into any Undead unit. So yes you can raise Glooms. And Barrow Guards, Simulacra and so on.

I wouldn’t bother with Javelins though, not when you get Skellies with light armour/hand weapon/shield for 8 points! But to each his own.

adsVampire, the flying chariot, is the M increased to 20? If not, it has an 8” charge since flying units always move their full move and nothing else, even when failing a charge.

Hmm.. so you don't think jav or GW are worth taking for skeletons?

I'll probably end up doing it just for the sake of converting.

@N.I.B. - al flyers have a 20" flying movement and their regular ground movement.

I took skellies with just regular shields due to the extreme character costs. You don't have very many points to spare and need to squeeze as many units as possible,

It should specify the length of the flying move in the entry for something like a chariot, but if not then it would have 20" movement from flying yes. I would expect them to say it has 16" of flying movement like the disk of Tzeench, but I'm not sure, I'll have to check.

Looking at the characters' cost it seems that the list was designed for battles of at least 3000 pts. Kemmler,Krell,King and 2 druids will cost 1200pts. This is a lot, but in battles of 3000+ still allows to take a decent number of troops.

In smaller (e.g. 2000-2500) battles this army is simply weak. Kemmler alone won't make magic phase decisive as he won't do any miracles with 7-8 PD... Other characters will have problems fighting treemen...And there won't be enough rank and file to counter WE mobility (or any other mobile army) ... Last but not least - no dispel scrolls).

If it it says "Flying" then it's 20" by default unless it says otherwise.

Yes, I checked and it doesn't say anything to contradict it, so the chariot would indeed have a 20" flying movement.

Isn't it weird that the skellies Kemmler raise with his Invocation of the Lichemaster is more expensive than the ones in the list? His skeletons are 8 a piece with no light armour for victory point calculations.

The ones you buy for the list are 7 points with no light armour!

Cascet of Shadows - anyone wants to pay a bucketload of points to have a crappy bound spell that makes a friendly unit cause fear? Wait, every one of your units already cause fear? I'll just take my coat then...

Charm of Defiance - this is sick. You can load your Barrow King with 3 of these to get 6 extra dispel dice. They are not one use only like specifically noted for the Charm of Destruction. That would be a total of 12 dispel dice in your 2000 point Cairns army, thank you very much! I can't imagine that this is anything else than (another) oversight by GW. However, that's how it stands in them cold rules today

And what happens with the chariot if the Barrow King is destroyed? Does it roam about with only the steeds?

I hear sour echoes from the horrible mistakes in the Zombie Pirates list. I wish that GW would for once take the time to proof read their (sometimes excellent) ideas that they publish in WD. Or at least be fast to admit that they screwed up and publish corrections both online and in coming issues of WD.

Just a mo...

Barrow King with three Charms of Defiance, a Shadow Druid with the godly Trickster Staff.

Just TRY to get ANYTHING through that without a 2nd Gen. Slann.

I think the Charm not listing "One Use Only" is clearly a typo. Just like the Barrow King's chariot not having an armor save ... but getting magical KB impact hits and horsies B) . Problem is you have to play it as its written.

The Trickster Staff is good but will not negate a successful casting roll because you swap AFTER the spell is cast ... you can't dispel a spell that has not been cast. It does greatly increase your chances of dispelling a spell when using the same number of dice.

And a Shadow Druid is only available in 3k point games and higher.

2k. Or does either Kemmler of Krell take two slots? (I don't have the WDs with me atm, and anarchistica hasn't completed the datafiles yet, so AB is useless)

Kemmler is a lord and hero :( .

That list needs fixing, seriously does... I mean, one Luthor Harkon, Tehenhauin or Nurglitch can be accepted, but...

800pts on compulsory characters? No way.

I think its just designed for one battle against a specific opponent (the wood elves, full of tasty, yet not compulsory, Spirit characers).

In balanced battles against normal armies it would just rule or suck, I have'nt decided yet. :unsure:

I would play the charm as one use only even though it's missed out; I mean, you're not likely to play it other than friendly games (if at all), so tournaments and hard fast rulse aren't a problem.

I've used the Army of the cairns. Just used hero choices, no Lords or compulsory characters. It worked very well against empire. Used the 3 ghosts to screen barrow kings chariot from a hell blaster. Please pass the cheese. The scorpions did well, as did the nightmare. Wasn't that impressed with the mummies though. No std or musician makes them hard to keep around. Barrow king with two charms of destruction is VERY nasty.

The mummies are craptastic anyway. T5, yes, but M3? No thanks.
I'd rather use Barrow Guard.

Incorrect. Invocation of Nehek may only raise skeletons and zombies, (unless a special rule applies that I didn't see). You can restore wounds on a undead construct, like the Simulacra, but the rest are unraisable.

A special rule applies that you didn't see. Invocation of the Lichemaster works a bit differently to Invocation of Nehek. Read it again.

I wouldn’t call it a special rule. It’s a different lore, basically.

Yep - the IoL works way different than the IoN.
IoN you can build new units of skels/zombs or heal wounds on multi-wound models/bases. With IoN you can build units beyond their starting count.
IoL you can build new units of skels, heal wounds on multi-wound models/bases, or restore lost models totalling x# of wounds rolled - so you can actually raise wights in this force.

Until reading this post, I didn't catch the bit about the reraising of literally everything in the army... also didn't catch the cap on rebuilding units - can't go past starting count - doesn't make any special exemption for skeletal units.

This army can work at 2000 points, but with the only variance in the heroes points spending being that of equipment on the Barrow King, it can be extremely limiting. Kemmler, Krell, and a BK are mandatory - that sucks up all 4 hero slots.

The Ghosts are a true hoot. Can be used like heatseeker missiles against armies with lower leaderships.

Tried using a Tomb Stalker - waste of points IMO. Go with Simulacra. They rock the world.

Stay away from the rare choices - nothing of any good up there.

Basically this army can be nasty to a degree. Not being able to get units above starting size and not having any real choice in heroes at less than 3000 points is a virtual handcuff (considering the three along take up nearly 900 points themselves). Games past 3k? Consider this, they get multiple lords, you're stuck with Kemmler and only Kemmler.

Decent niche army altogether but isn't built as a large-scale game army IMO and definitely won't work small-scale as Kemmler is mandatory, he's a lord, and you can't have lords under 2k. Even the army chart in the WD for units/heroes doesn't start until 2k. Gotta have some "special agreement" to field it without him, but then would you want to considering then you can only take a Shadow Druid (no raising) for a spellcaster and at <2k you only get three heroes and two are Krell and a Barrow King (unless you put them as part of that special agreement too).

I'll probably play a few more games with this force but will likely revert to my tried and true AoS.

Can anyone PM me the precise costs and wordings of Kemmler, Krell and the Cairns list? I am in the process of making a datafile for them, as anarchistica can't at the moment.

Its a shame you have to have Kemmler. Mind you, I have nothing against the chaos worshipping son-of-a-jackal :angry: Sorry :unsure: temporary lapse of composure... I would like to have played the game with a shadow druid as the general or hierophant? And I do love zombies an... I can't believe he would stray away from the Hand of Nagash like that! :angry: :angry: :angry: ... that son of a - you know I should stop now, sorry :(

hey, I'm not SO bad......

As for the army of the Cairns. I've used it with just heroes. The mummies were not that impressive, but look good. The Simulca are very nasty, and the ghosts make a nice screen for barrow Lord's chariot. Using three together. Yeah OK it was cheesey but I had a hellblaster facing it. I didn't go for the flying version.!!!

The charms of destruction are very nasty.

The ghosts are useful because the casualties count towards CR. So, your skeletons get a nice bonus from having a couple of ghosts in the enemy's flank.

I found the nighmare very effective at flying causing terror...........but that's about it though.