So, I'm looking to buy and start using a Zombie Dragon is my armies. I've never used one before and would like a bit of help (Cypress, you'd be great here :P ).

First, which is most effective: a Dragon with a mostly infantry army, a Dragon with a mostly cavalry army, or somewhere in between with a balanced mix? (I've been playing around on Army Builder with the latter. An infantry center with Black Knights and Blood Knights on the extreme flanks, with some bats and wolves thrown in their for speed).

Second, how should the Dragon be played? I've seen some players hold him back until later turns of combat, but that seems a waste for the ~700 points spent on him. I've always seen some players rush it forward, but even with the Wristbands that seems a bit risky.

Is the Dragon even worth taking over an Abyssal Terror? He is more resilient (which is important, because I want to keep the Lord mounted for the Dreadlance) and has that nice Cloud of Flies rule, but is a Terror just as effective?

TIA

First of all I don't ever make a list that doesn't include a Lord on a Zombie Dragon. I just love this model. Its just so fun to use. Now at my last tournament I ran this combo.

Vampire Lord,
Balefire Spike, Crown of the Damned, Flayed Hauberk, Dispel Scroll
Infinite Hatred, Red Fury, Walking Death
Extra Magic Level, Zombie Dragon

This combo destroyed everything it went up against. Even took out a fully ranked up Saurus spearmen unit with Battle Standardbearer in 2 rounds of combat. But the Crown of Spuditiy cost me a victory though in another game. I've modified my equipment now.

Vampire Lord,
Wristbands of Black Gold, Flayed Hauberk, Balefie Spike, Black Periapt.
Dark Acolyte, Forbidden Lore, Infinite Hatred.
Extra Magic Level, Zombid Dragon.

This set up is not as deadly in close combat as the previous set up but it is more versatile in its roles. Being able to choose any lore from the rule book is just an awesome ability. Knowing all the spells from that lore is just that much better. My favourite Lore is the Lore of Fire. Just pure destruction with that spell list and I love casting the Flaming Sword of Rhuin. 5 attacks at strength 8. 1's fail to hit and 1's fail to wound. This entire setup is more fun to play than the all out attack version.

As far as troops go I like using a super fast army. Dire Wolves, Black Knights, Blood Knights, Fell Bats. My core units simply contest table quarters as they really can't keep up with the main fighting force.

I've never tried using an infantry heavy list yet. Its just not my style, but I could see it being just as effective. I would definitly include a Death Star unit of Grave Guard, with Ghouls protecting the flanks and probably Wraiths supporting in some way or fashion.

Hope this gives you some ideas. If you find a better combo or tactic do share as I'm always looking for ways to make my Lord on Zombie Dragon more effective.

I'm thinking about this:

Vampire Lord
Dreadlance
Wristbands of Black Gold
Red Fury
Infinite Hatred
Avatar of Death (shield)
Zombie Dragon

Have you ever tried the AT?

I've used the DreadLance tons. It was my favourite combo to run for a long time. Its a great weapon, but with Infinite Hatred and Red Fury its not needed. The Balefire Spike does the job just fine and saves you 50pts to spend on other gear. As for Avatar of Death. I've never used. Looked at it lots but a 4+ armour save just isn't that good on a character flying around on a Large Target. Prefered Walking Death. It just kicks ass. Broke alot of units because of the +1 to combat res.

One area where you'll find the Dreadlance invaluable is against Woodelves and their stupid "Annoyance of Nettlings". The Dreadlance by passes the Nettlings all together. Making those squishy Elf Lords easy pickings.

Not anymore. I think its in either the Woodelf one or the latest general FAQ. It will be a roll off each combat phase to see which item is in effect.

One can also argue that FAQ's are NOT official rule changes. Only Errata's are.

But this discussion is not for here. This is all about Lord/Zombie Dragon combo tactics.

I've also considered the Cursed Book many of times. Obiviously the only draw back is that everyone and their dog will attack the Dragon. Anyone else ever thought about using the "New Cursed Book"?

Here's the combo I like for my Lord/Dragon combo. He's been able to handle any other dragon/lord combo to yet be thrown at him. And has even taken a couple BT's down.


Vamp Lord L3: Red fury, Infinite hatred, Beguile, Balefire spike, Crown,
Nightshroud, Cursed book, Dragon.

You direct all your attacks and the dragons against his dragon and you should kill it in one turn. Then all you have is some Lord running around on foot, usually fleeing from you. RnF troops are just slaughtered...... (Y)

I've been using a Zombie Dragon for a bit. Rather than the usual cookie coutter utra-killy type, I've gone for a more subtle true von Carstein style- Walking Death and Aura of Dark Majesty, plus hatred of course. Then simply Balefire Spike, 2+ armour, and Book of Arkhan. It's a bit of a worry having no ward, but with my luck I'd just fail it at the appropriate moment anyway ;)

But the -1LD combo has been wrecking my enemies- you'd think with all the ItP stuff around it wouldn't matter much at all, but it's been making stubborn units fail their LD check and causing all kinds of problems. Terradons trying to get by with LD6? Try it on LD5 like the old days be-atches! Plus keeping my Banshee nearby also makes the effect even nastier, and easily redeployed.

I'm almost up to 25 games before the big tournament I've been practising for and he really has been slaughtering everything in his path. Some games I've lost- I try not to put him in front of armies with shooting but it's sometimes unavoiadable (Or I simply play the "fun" way as a gamble rather than the WAAC way- less likely to happen at a tournament ;) ), my Lord has died to a single RBT shot before, a single Burning Gaze, and, yes, my Dragon has been Gateway'd. But it's still really fun to use. Bring on the plague of Dragons!

Don't forget you can't use your lance once the dragon is dead.

If my Dragon dies I think not using a lance is going to be the least of my problems.... :unsure:

Yeah? My dragon dies early and often, perhaps in two out of five games. It doesn't mean that I automatically lose. Usually I run into some infantry block and pull out a win anyway, but it takes longer.

So with Dragon/AT's dying a large amount of the time, would it be better to be equipped with a Sword of Might instead of the Balefire Spike/Dreadlance?

@ Alesh,

The simple answer. No. I would still rather have the Balefire Spike than the Sword of Might. Having Strength 7 is alot more important in the 7th edition than it ever was. Theres alot of high toughness good armour save characters and creatures out there now. For a tournament list I would always bring either Lances.

In a friendly game were I knew exactly what army I'm playing against then yes I would consider the Sword of Might. Kind of an obivious answer but thats my personal experience using all three weapons in the past.

Also don't get discouraged using the Lord on Dragon. I remember the first 4 or 5 games I started using it I lost my Dragon every game. Through practice and being more patient I started to keep it alive alot longer. At my last Grand Tournament I only lost my Dragon once in 6 games. When this baby hit home it annilhated units, characters and monsters all tournament long.

I like to think of it as "Ahh, finally I can kill these stinking High Elf characters" time :D

Have to agree with LC on that to. Having S7 is just crucial to winning some of the combats and having flamming attacks against the regen out there is nice.

Around my parts there's quite a few good HE players in the tournament tops, which is another drawback for the otherwise cheap flame lance. People from the same clubs talk between games and the word spread. When your opponent learns that your only threat to his Star Dragon is toothless, you lose the game. I would consider the Spike in tailored games, but he Dreadlance is utterly dead.

S7 is less important when sitting on a Dragon imo, since you'll have another 5 hatred S6 attacks at WS 6. It's all about the logistics - getting your dragon into the desirable target. Vanhel's Danse Macabre, in other words. If you can charge the flank of your target you'll win the combat, regardless of S6 or S7. Caster dragon lords works better for me than combat dragon lords. And S6 is better against a lot of armies out there - other undead/unbreakable/stubborn ITP units who you need to grind down.

Quick question NIB. Or anybody who knows.....Does the HE flame proof armor protect the dragon also? Because I'm seldem attacking the Lord on top. I kill the dragon first. And S7 is best for the job imo. And then run down the little guys afterwards......

As far as I know the Flame Proof armour is not passed on to the Dragons. I could be wrong though. I've only fought the new High Elves twice. And I know I was using the Dread Lance combo at the time. My buddy does own the new book I could ask him.

No the dragon does not become flame proof, only the rider. Dragon Princes horses "get" the benefit obviously because they are a 1 wound model but a monstrous mount like a dragon does not.

I have seen quite a lot of people trying to claim that, by using the psychology is passed on to the mount so why not magic benefits? Answer - Magical benefits are only passed on if specifically stated and you will see in alot of army books (wood elves for example) with magic items like this which state, "this does not affect any mount the character has" or "this includes any mount"

Alot of people will just try to squeeze any benefit they can find from the wording of the BRB even tho alot of the time the answer is simple and obvious. I think it even states somewhere, we cannot write every eventuality down so use common sense.

Common sense says to me that it does not say in the BRB that they do receive this benefit and since there are magic items that specifically state that the mount is affected or not, that unless it states specifically then it doesn't get the benefit.

Otherwise if they did become fireproof then the next logical step would be people with magic armour that gives a 1+ AS saying that this transfers to the dragon as well or 2+ in the case of the Armour or Caledor and you could easily see the strangled logic to this. :blink:

Cool, thanks. I'll have to check the high elf book to see what the star dragons stats are. Cause it's pretty easy to kill a regular dragon in one turn.

Actually, Dragon Armor DOES make the mount fire-proof. Check the High Elf FAQ.

The key phrase is "or its mount."

FAQ's are not official rules. Only Errata's are. Games Workshop has made this clear for me and all my stubborn friends. This text is taken directly from their website. FAQ's vary to much from FAQ to FAQ.

"ERRATA & FAQs
Welcome to the Errata & FAQs section of our website. Here you can find the latest Errata & FAQs documents for our current books in the form of downloadable pdf documents.

What's the difference between Errata and FAQs?
As it is rather obvious from their name, these documents include two separate elements - the Errata and the FAQs. In case you were wondering, 'Errata' is a posh (Latin!) way to say 'Errors', and 'FAQs' stands for 'Frequently Asked Questions'. It is important to understand the distinction between the two, because they are very different.

The Errata are simply a list of the corrections we plan to make on the next reprint of the book to fix the mistakes that managed to slip into the text (no matter how many times you check a book, there are always some!).

The Errata have the same level of 'authority' as the main rules, as they effectively modify the published material. They are 'hard' material. It is a good idea to read them and be aware of their existence, but luckily there are very few of them for each book.

"The FAQs on the other hand are very much 'soft' material. They deal with more of a grey area, where often there is no right and wrong answer - in a way, they are our own 'Studio House Rules'. In other words, you might prefer to skip the FAQs altogether and instead always apply the good old 'roll a dice' rule whenever you meet a problematic situation.

- Games Development, November 2008
Copyright © Games Workshop Limited 2009 © New Line Productions Inc © The Saul Zaentz Company d/b/a Tolkien Enterprises All rights reserved to their respective owners."

Link:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/...004&aId=3000006

I'm aware of that. However, we tend to use FAQ as hard rules here in my area.

p57 High Elf book, Dragon Armour"... In addition the model and its mount are immune to all breath attacks, and flaming attacks."

So a HE character on a dragon with dragon armour (mundane or magical) makes its mount, the dragon, immue to breath and flaming attacks.

As illogical as it may be, that's the rule...

What the hell!!! I'm more surprised that someone asked for the description to be clarified by Games Workshop. That quote Preacher provided was perfectly written. How anyone could not understand that the mount also gets to the protection is beyond me. That has to be one of the worst FAQ's I've ever seen. Some people are just sooo lazy.

@ Alesh,

I agree with you totally. The only thing I can think of is that the magical aura of the armour surrounds the whole model ;) .

That's just ludicrous that has just cancelled out dwarf bolt throwers and stone throwers with the rune of burning which is the only way they have to kill hydras. So if you take the hydra killer you can no longer even hurt the dragon. INSANITY!

Dragon Armor and the War Hydra are in two different armies.

The reason for the HE FAQ is that the rule worked slightly differently between 6th and 7th. There was a slight change in the wording between the 6th & 7th HE books. In 6th the model with dragon armour was still hurt by flaming cannon balls, stones, etc. In effect it only made you ignore to the flaming piece with made it mostly worthless. In 7th the wording changed to make the model totally immune to flaming attacks.

Preacher nailed it down.

In 6th ed, dragon armour only protected against pure flaming attacks without a physical component (mostly breath weapons and flame cannons and some spells). Now they get to ignore the cannonball that comes with the flames too. Funny that a cannonball without flames on makes a high elf prince a bloody mess on a direct hit, whereas if treated with flaming oil it bounces harmlessly from his chest. Funny too, that his small (non-magical) dragon cape is big enough to harbour his gigantic Star Dragon too.

We can laugh, cry or curse, but the rule is clear. And most tournaments apply this rule as written whether we like it or not.

So. Lance on VC dragon lord is not optimal, imo.

I suppose the reasoning behind that is the flaming turns the entire attack into pure fire?

What if there's not too many HE dragons on the local tournament scene?

I was talking about when taking a tournament or just a single all comers list :wacko:

Naah, the reasoning behind that is to make the rules simpler and more streamlined, fluff be damned.

The problem still remains that you lose your magic lance if (when) your dragon dies. You obivously have to estimate for yourself how big drawback that is, depending on the Warhammer meta game (regarding shooting/magic and terrain placement) in your community.