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Posted: Jul 12 2010, 02:42 AM
Councillor of the Blood Keep
Member No.: 13
Joined: 26-February 04
My Ghoul King VC list faced off against a mates Tomb Kings for my first game of 8th edition. Armies are 2000 points.
Battle Report – The Ghoul King vs King Kat an 8th edition battle report
Vampire Counts – The Ghoul King
Ghoul King – Vampire Lord, Extra Magic Level, Red Fury, Forbidden Lore (Beasts), Summon Ghouls, Sword of Might, Armour of Silvered Steel, Crown of the Damned
Ghoul Kings Standard – Wight Lord, BSB, Ironcurse Icon, Talisman of Preservation
Ghoul Champion – Vampire, Flayed Hauberk, Dispel Scroll, Forbidden Lore (Vampires), Summon Ghouls
x3 25 Ghouls inc Ghast
x3 5 Dire Wolves
Tomb Kings - King Kat
Tomb King, Great Weapon, Light Armour
High Liche Priest, Golden Ankhra, Cloak of the Dunes
Prince, Great Weapon, Light Armour, Broach of the Great Desert
Liche Priest, Skeletal Steed
Liche Priest, Dispel Scroll
x2 25 Skeletal Bowmen, Std, Musician, one with Banner Eternal Flame
6 Skeletal Light Horsemen
x2 Tomb Scorpions
x2 Screaming Skull Catapults
Terrain set up was a couple of hills (opposite corners) on the VC side and a central forest just forward of the deployment zone. Tomb Kings had a double level hill on the left, a single level hill on the right and a forest right centre towards the table mid-line. Terrain had little impact beyond providing a good setup point for the TK catapults so it will be pretty much ignored in the report.
The Tomb Kings deployed their two archer blocks on and between the two hills with each anchored by a Skull Chucker and scorpion. Chariots on the far left and carrion on the far right.
The VC deployed with two units of wolves on their left, the three ghoul blocks, wolves, varghulf and black coach on the far right.
Tomb Kings got the option for the first turn so they took it. Didn't move much beyond advancing the chariots, both scorpions and carrion to better protect the flanks. Magic phase saw a mid level pool rolled up, of which the coach ate half. Tomb Kings didn't care. VC failed to channel any dispel dice. Tomb King magic was unstoppable (13PD equivalent) but apart from making the chuckers shoot there wasn't a lot for them to do. Chuckers got a hit on the coach, made its ward, and crunched one of the ghoul blocks, killing a couple. S3 has really hurt the stone throwers. Shooting phase saw the varghulf take a direct hit and die. The other chucker scattered and missed. No bow units were in range.
Vampires did the only thing that they could, charged forward with the ghoul blocks at full speed. Wolves on the left moved to intercept the carrion, while the Coach advanced to threaten the scorpion and chariots on the VC right flank. Poor rolling (1 & 6) for the magic pool saw the coach eat another couple of dice, taking it to Lvl 5, and the VC spell casting to heal its damaged units dispelled. Turn over for the VC.
TK: The carrion on the right charged one of wolf units. Rolled 5 on three dice (1,1,3) and hopped forward 3”. Chariots on the left moved away to the far left to tempt the Black Coach. Everything pretty much stayed where it was. Magic saw the VC get 6 dispel dice, but again could do nothing against the Tomb King magic. Fate intervened however with both chuckers missfiring in the magic phase. Bow fire saw the VC dogs on the TK left shot to bits, and one of the ghoul units lose a couple of ghouls. Shooting then saw the dogs finished off and a few more ghouls bite the dust.
VC charged wolves into the carrion on the left, second wolf unit advanced to support the first unit if needed, black coach declared a charge against the TK chariots on the right. Wolves made their charge against the carrion (rolled 5,6,6), the black coach rolled triple 1 for its charge so crept forward an inch. Feast or famine with charges so far in this game. Magic saw three dice make it into the pool (coach now fully powered up), and my vampire thrall fails to cast invoc with two dice (double one). My lords on a single die goes through but is dispelled. Combat sees the wolves and carrion fight. Both have I3 so go at the same time, carrion take a wound but kill two dogs, a draw.
TK: Pretty much the same as the previous turn. No movement but the magic phase sees quite a few ghouls die to bow fire, chuckers either scatter or missfire. Shooting phase sees even more ghouls die, in fact one unit is now down to about 9 ghouls. Combat between the carrion and the wolves leaves it a draw.
VC: Second unit of wolves sent in on the flank of the carrion, charge makes it. Ghouls declare charges against both archer blocks. Unit with Wight King and Vampire Thall make it, the other ghoul unit fails its charge. Magic sees me roll 11 for power dice, channelling sees this max out to 12 and the coach fails to consume any. Excellent time for some magic payback. My lord starts with Wyssans Wildform(+1S +1T) to buff the ghoul unit in combat. Needs seven to cast and I really need this spell to go off so three dice, yep triple 6. So spell goes off, miscast sees the S10 small template nuke 8 ghouls but fail to wound the lord. It also takes 6 dice from the pool. Bugger. Remaining magic is dispelled. VC look like they are in trouble now. Combat sees the TK skeletal archers loose by 11 or so, many crumble. The archers fail to hurt my T5 ghouls. Combat against the carrion on the VC left see the wolves have a good round and another carrion dies to CR. But the unit is still there.
TK: Big Skeletal archer block containing the king and heirophant charge the ghouls which failed to make it the previous turn. Tomb Scorpion charges the VC lords block to try and delay it from reaching the combat lines. Both charges make it. Magic sees the skeletal archer block previously in combat with the ghouls healed but barely manage to take it back above the CR losses. Shooting is mute since the chuckers have no valid targets as pretty much everything is engaged. Combat sees the VC lord use 'Make way' and pound the scorpion which takes three wounds, fails to harm the lord thanks to the ward and dies from CR. Combat with the Skeletal Archers in the Centre and the BSB/Thrall Ghoul unit sees the unit popped from CR leaving the prince with two wounds. The Tomb King's Archer unit killed the ghouls and reformed to face the flank of the other engaged ghoul unit.
VC: Coach charges a scorpion. Lords unit charges a skull chucker. Everything else is already engaged or otherwise blocked. Another good magic roll sees some ghouls raised back, Wyssans Wildform on the engaged ghoul unit again, and the +3S +3A spell on the VC lord. Combat sees the Wight Lord kill the prince and avoid the curse. Unit turns to face the TK's archer block. Coach kills the scorpion and overruns. The S8 7A Red Fury Vampire lord makes short work of the Skull Chucker. The wolf carrion fight grinds on. Two wolves and a single carrion left.
TK: Chariots move behind the coach to support the combats in the centre. Heirophant leaves the TK unit, and that unit advances towards the BSB/Thrall Ghoul unit. Magic sees the TK Archers charge the ghouls but smiting is dispelled while the TK are freely allowed to heal units. Skull chucker missfires in the magic phase blowing itself up. Combat sees the Wight King killing blow the King and avoid the curse. The ghouls do very well against the Skeletal Archers and combat results see the unit reduced to musician and standard. The wolves and carrion on the right finally manage to kill each other off.
TK player concedes at this point.
General Comments on the Game
The overall changes to stone throwers I think balances out. Most people were pretty good at guessing ranges. And you have no control over the scatter.
The random movement will take a little bit to get used to. Going from easy in range charges in 7th to possible failed charges in 8th will need some thought adjustment.
I don't think basing a game around magic is going to work. If you roll low or even average you're unlikely to get more than one or two spells off in a round. However, the Tomb King magic phase is unbelievable in 8th. With the ability to get a King and High Priest even in lower point games there magic is really hard to stop. The corpse cart was never used as there was never enough dice avalible to power it.
With the changes to fly I don't think Fell Bats or Carrion (TK list) are worth it. In particular the Tomb King player stated he would be better off with an extra scorpion over the carrion. Almost as fast and lots stronger in combat.
The Black Coach really powers up fast, then continues to annoy as it sucks die after die from that point with no ability to escape it. The changes to Fly also hurt the coach as its poor leadership means its easily march blocked. I think the coach is a great unit for magic defense, so for combat heavy builds I'd include it. If you want to make sure you can make the most of your magic phase its probably best left at home.
Posted: Jul 12 2010, 05:46 AM
Member No.: 1,552
Joined: 31-July 06
As a Tomb Kings player too, I chuckled reading the VC strugle in the magic phase and the TK having their way
But on the TK side, getting 2 lords at 2000pts is nice in theory, but he spent way too much on characters and lacked numbers or something more resilient like Tomb Guards to hold you off.
On the VC front it's interesting to see that 1 lord, 1 hero (both with forbidden) and a Corpse Cart was nearly too much magic for the average dice pool, especially with the Black Coach eating a dice here and there. Will have to follow how it develops for the Vc in the futur, as you couldn't raise back much, and yet faced a very weak opponent, especially once you reach CC.
Posted: Jul 12 2010, 08:28 AM
Member No.: 34
Joined: 27-February 04
The average Fly charge is, what, 18-19" now? I think it's a good change to have a chance to march block annoying flyers like Bloodthirsters and Tzeentch disc characters.
I have the same feeling about our support units as you Preacher, I don't think I'll use Dire Wolves or Fell Bats much in 8th ed lists.
Corpse Carts are difficult to use as you noticed, and my old tactic of using Miama on GG's with great weapons is not that good now, seeing that ASL and ASF cancel each other. And the -1 to cast you can give them is not that significant either, as magic has more of an "all or nothing" tone, people tend to chuck a lot of dice on spells.
On the other hand - for those times you REALLY want to get ASF on all units within 6" for a full turn, you can throw up to 6 dice at it. So Miasma still has a tactical importance.
No Ghoulkin? It allows for some first turn charge shenanigans, provided your opponent went first and moved forward. I think it's better in 8th edition and fitting your list, as you are very slow otherwise.
Posted: Jul 12 2010, 09:13 PM
Councillor of the Blood Keep
Member No.: 13
Joined: 26-February 04
Yes the list needed Ghoulkin, the problem is where to put it as there is no space unless I swap the Wight for a Vampire. 2000 points is very hard in 8th, I am no where near getting the balance in my lists right yet.
Posted: Jul 12 2010, 10:11 PM
Member No.: 1,552
Joined: 31-July 06
I would loose Forbbiden Lore on the hero. From the look of it, you won't benefit from it very often if you are to cast a few Invocations with you lord , maybe 1 or 2 spells from beast, your Corpse Cart and the Black Coach eating dices.
For the same reason I think he could do without Summon Ghoul too, he could heal the unit if need be, but you won't have many chance to use him to make them beyond starting numbers.
This post has been edited by Mioumboy on Jul 12 2010, 10:12 PM
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